CP, let me know if you're ever in the DFW, TX, area. You seem like someone with whom I'd enjoy a drink and a smoke.

That's a fair piece out of my way, but thanks for the gesture. If something does find me out that way I'll be sure to send a line.

lofty1

NO.

lofty1

in your narrow minded view, you are assuming other people believe as you do. some of don't. some of us don't accept the bible as some mystical proof of some mystical being that is the be all of everything.

why some of us even believe in the sun god, the fire god and the god of rocks.

CigarPrimate

why do you quote things from a book that many people believe is nothing more then the compilation of myths.

lofty1

my point is, i think the ten commandments, as we know them today, were very influential in the development of our society and its laws.

does that explain jefferson's second family, the slaves he raped.

CigarPrimate

this is so well said, it bears repeating in total.
"I just remember some of this stuff from history in college. Interesting as hell I thought. The framers, like Franklin, Hamilton, etc. were really quite snooty, wealthy, and taken in with enlightenment thinking. Franklin actually made some stunning scientific discoveries. They called themselves deists, but that can be taken with a grain of salt. Their no-nonsense, anti-royalty, anti-spiritual, empiricism can really be seen in Paine's "Common Sense." The fire & brimstone holy rollers came later and was a popular movement. The Mormons were an off-shoot of this Protestant free-for-all. The wealthy, intellectual, frilly-collar wearing founding fathers would have turned their blue-blood noses up at the rolling on the floor, crying for Jesus Evangelicals; they were a fairly elite, pragmatic bunch."

if the christian right would simply practice what they believe and shut up and stop trying to convince others about their beliefs and stop sticking their collective noses into politics, the country would be a much less divise nation.

they have beliefs, good.

they obey their commandments, good.

now shut up and have some respect for those of us who have our own philisophical ideas about life,

rick:
in your narrow minded view, you are assuming other people believe as you do. some of don't. some of us don't accept the bible as some mystical proof of some mystical being that is the be all of everything.

why some of us even believe in the sun god, the fire god and the god of rocks.



rick, i think you've gotten the wrong idea about what i was saying. i don't believe very many people have the same philosophical beliefs as me. i'm not sure how you got theat idea. i do believe, however, that our country's development was influenced by christianity. that's part of the country's heritage. i'm not saying that the government should favor christianity, but at least acknowledge the influence. i don't believe i ever implied that the government should be disrespectful to any/all other beliefs. in fact, i even stated that the government should practice religious tolerance.

i'm starting to think that you just want to argue with me now regardless of what i have to say.

lofty1

"at least acknowledge the influence"

well then we should have pictures of slave markets and pictures of the massacre of indians and perhaps a few photos of women being burned alive at the stake.

my opthomoligist would like to see some pictures of his family at manzanar.

i'd like some pictures of some of my relatives aboard the ss st louis being refused landing privileges and sent back to germany to be burnt in the ovens.

gosh, there are so many influences that have helped make this country, why just display only one religious artifact. why not a mezzuza on the door to every public building and a menorah in every entrance.


"i'm starting to think that you just want to argue with me now regardless of what i have to say."

would you prefer a board where someone says something and it is followed by,
ditto
i agree
ditto
what he said

i thought the point was to disagree, debate, keep things lively, perhaps even learn something.

if you want, i'll switch sides with you and take the viewpoint that the ten commandments should be on any government building.

Part of the reason this country was founded was to separate church and state. People seem to forget that. Bush and his religious right/zealots have DEFINITELY forgotten that.

This country should welcome ALL religions, not just christianity.

Jefferson was a free mason.

I was the 238,516 to "sign" the petition. Thanks Dan.

Moreno, so was GW & many other of the founding fathers.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of our present politicians were Masons ("Christian" idolaters), as well.

rick:
why just display only one religious artifact



because that "artifact" is still relevant in our laws as they currently exist. it's relevant in a court building. it's not like having a cross in every government building. i would have a problem with that.


"i thought the point was to disagree, debate, keep things lively, perhaps even learn something."


true. i just thought you were getting the wrong idea about what i was trying to say. you seemed to arguing against a point i never tried to make. forget i said what i said. debate on.

lofty1

don't you find it easier to argue against a point not made. put words in someone's mouth and then argue about what they didn't say.

ain't i the tricky one.

This thread is still going on??? LOL

Rick, please explain why it was ok to remove the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Federal Court, but it isn't an Issue to have the Ten Commandments in the Senate halls in Washington DC?? and all the other Biblical artifacts there of related to Christian Religion... why is that?? and why is there such an out pour even more so today against the Christian Religion?? so much so even Muslum Religion is making better tracks in Federal Courts then the Christian Religion???


I know the answer but the question is "Do You"? ;0)

Hog

USAHOG

yes.

ummmm Rick, you answered one question of the 4 asked from you?? not very debative this morning?

Hog

Hmmmmm, me very impressed with Hog's creative use of language. Paleface very clever like namesake, Hedgehog.
Him very debative too. Ugh!

Chief Tonguetied

usahog

i counted one posed several different ways.

i don't approve of prayer during congress. let me rephrase that. many women scream oh god during intercourse.

i should have said i do not approve of any artifacts including those in the halls of congress. and as you can see, the ten commandments have been of no help in raising the morality of most of our representatives.

open prayer, that is prayer spoken outloud, is to impress other people. i don't think your god needs to hear the words anymore then he needed a goat sacrificed. that's the invention of man to prove how holy he is to other men.

if there were a god, what would he care about prayers to win a football game, and if he has inflicted a disease on someone, can your prayers to the inflicter make him remorseful so that he will change his mind and cure whoever he allowed to or made get sick in the first place.

i don't mean to imply that those who have made the leap of faith should leap backwards. you should maintain your faith and use prayer as you see fit.

just keep it to yourself.