This is a Long read but I think it is worth it. This paper was written by a Pastor and religious scholar I know. I was sceptical when I first read the paper; then I checked the sources (passages in the Koran and other references) and now I am amazed. Thoughts? Any Muslims out ther with a substanciated differing view?

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In light of the horrendous events that took place on Monday, September 11, 2001, several people have asked me what the biblical response should be.

First, I think it is necessary to understand more about the kind of people who would commit what to us is a terrible crime. These men were Muslims, what most would call Islamic “Fundamentalists.” They follow the teaching of Mohammed as written down in the Koran (or Qur’an).

I want to be absolutely clear at the beginning that this information is what the religion of Islam teaches and not what the average Muslim understands about Islam. Most Muslims are like most Christians, Jews, etc. and have not studied what their religion teaches. Most Muslims would argue vehemently against much of what is written here. Since they do not understand and would not live their lives in accord with the teaching presented here, they should not be individually condemned. Never the less, this is what Mohammed actually taught.

Mohammed lived about 600 years after Christ and was familiar with both Christianity and Judaism, but the Koran teaches there is only one “correct” religion; the religion of Islam. All who disagree are labeled as “infidels.”

Islam means “submission.” It is the active form of the Arabic word for peace — salam. That means that the peace envisioned is one of absolute submission to the teaching of the Koran.

‘Islam's earnest goal, set forth in the Koran (three versions were consulted) and hadith (Islamic written tradition), remains the same: to bring all mankind into submission (that's what "Islam" means) and to kill or enslave all "infidels" (unbelievers in Allah and Muhammad his prophet -- Surah 2:190-92; 4:76; 5:33; 9:5,29,41; 47:4, etc). Islam (in obedience to the Koran and Muhammad's example) is the driving force behind most terrorism today. Muhammad declared, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them."’ (Quoted at www.carnex.com/religion.html)

We also need to understand that the men who perpetrated such a horrible crime were only acting in accordance with what their religion teaches them. They were involved in Jihad (holy war) against those who are not Muslim.

According to Hadith, Vol. 1:25 ‘Allah’s apostle (Mohammed) was asked, “What is the best deed?” He replied, “To believe in Allah and his Apostle.” The questioner then asked, “What is the next?” He replied, “To participate in Jihad in Allah’s cause.”’

What then is “Allah’s cause” according to the Koran? In the Koran 9:5 Mohammad writes that the followers of Allah are to “Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war.”

A famous Muslim scholar, Abu Bahr Mohammed Ibn ‘Abd Allah, known as Ibn al-‘Arabi, wrote in Ahkam al-Qur’an, pp 232-234, “The Prophet (Mohammad) said: I have been ordered to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.”

The Koran Q 2:193 teaches to “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah.”

Another Muslim scholar, Al-Ghazali (who died in 1127 AD), and whose title was the “Rock of Islam”, wrote”…holy war and invading other countries for the sake of Allah, smashing the faces of the infidels with the sword and making people enter the religion of Allah (is) the most worthy of all tasks…” (Ihz’a ‘Uloum ed-Din, vol. V, p. 35)

A modern scholar, writing in al-Azhar (August 1959) — according to one source, the most celebrated magazine in the Muslim world — stated that “Holy war (Jihad) is an Arabic virtue, and a divine obligation: the Muslim is always mindful that his religion is a Qur’an and a sword…The Muslim then is forever a warrior.”

Muslims “divide the world into…Dar-al-Islam (the House of Islam) and Dar-al-Harb (the House of War).”

When we begin to understand what Islam teaches, it is not difficult to see that those who killed so many in such a horrible fashion were only doing what their religion had taught them. We may not understand how someone could do such a terrible thing but they believed they would be rewarded for such actions.

Hadith, Vol. 1:35 teaches the Muslim that “The person who participates in Jihad in Allah’s cause…will be recompensed by Allah with a reward or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” If someone believes such terrible actions will result in earthly or eternal reward, it becomes more understandable how he could take such an action.

Some, even many Muslims, will say that Islam is a religion of tolerance and that there are many verses in the Koran that speak of tolerating other religions. Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, writing in An-Nasikh Dal-Mansukh, 1986, pp. 12-18, ‘…informs us that there are 114 verses that speak of tolerance in early Islam, but all were abrogated by one verse “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”’ (Q 9:5)

The Koran also teaches “Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers.” (Q 3:85)

Some of you may have Muslim neighbors or co-workers who are very friendly. First, you need to understand that most Muslims, like most Christians, have no idea what their religion actually teaches. Second, you should understand that the Koran 5:54 teaches, “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them is one of them.” This means that Mohammad taught that no Muslim could befriend a Jew or Christian. To do so would be to turn away from Islam and become an “infidel.” The penalty for such an action, according to Islamic law, is death.

Many Christians, and most Muslims, believe that Allah is the God of the Bible. Many even believe the Muslims are descendants of Ishmael and therefore have a common ancestry with Christians and Jews. In fact, archeology has proven that Allah existed long before Mohammad. Mohammad’s family worshipped an idol whose name was originally, al-ilah (the deity). That name was shortened to Allah and many of Mohammad’s family members had names, which included the name Allah. Archeologists also have shown that al-ilah was simply another name for an ancient moon-good whose name was Sin (as in Sinai and the wilderness of Sin — mentioned in the Bible). This moon-god also had another name, Baal. He was married to the sun-goddess and they had three daughters who were the stars. One of those daughters was named Istar (or Ishtar, Diana, Artemis, or Easter). The symbol for the god al-ilah was a crescent moon, which is included on many of the Muslim nation flags and adorns their mosques and buildings.

Muslims are required to pray toward Mecca five times a day. Archeologists have shown that Mecca was originally a shrine for 360 gods (idols) with the moon-god, al-ilah or Baal being the chief god. Mohammad simply replaced all the other gods with the one “true” god. (www.biblebelievers.org)

In light of all this, what should our response be? Do we have the right to take revenge for these incredibly vicious acts? Our President and others have stated that this is an “act of war” and therefore calls for a warlike response. As Christians, can we respond in a warlike manner? What about the teaching of Jesus to “Turn the other cheek?” What about the popular teaching of “unconditional” forgiveness?

Romans 12:19-21 is very explicit in regard to the matter of revenge. God’s Word states, ‘Never take your own revenge beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the LORD. “BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS UPON HIS HEAD.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.’

We should also be instructed by the example of Christ. Even though He had done nothing sinful or wrong, He was rejected and crucified by the Romans acting together with the Jews. As they were in the process of taking His life, He said, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34)

Should we then simply turn the other cheek and ask God to forgive such a horrible deed? Absolutely not!

Exodus 21:12-14 states that “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death…if…a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die”. God teaches that premeditated crafty murder requires punishment. There is no sanctuary, even at the altar of God.

Numbers 35:30 states, “If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death at the evidence of witnesses, but no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness.”

This is not revenge killing, it is judicial execution for a violation of God’s Law. One might ask, “What do we do since the murderers were killed in the execution of the crime?” The answer is that, under our law, which is based on the Law of the Bible, one who knows that a crime is going to be committed and aids or harbors the perpetrator, is as guilty of the crime as the one who commits it.

Therefore, we need to determine who committed the crime and who helped them. The punishment should then be meted out in a judicial manner, not in a revengeful way.

By the way, God’s Law does not allow for imprisonment for murderers. Numbers 35:31 states,”Moreover, you shall not take ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death.” Imprisonment is really ransom. The prisoner is paying a debt, which eventually will absolve him of his crime.

Does God allow for our nation to go after those in other countries who have committed grievous crimes against us? The Biblical answer, I believe is yes. In Numbers 31:1-3 we read, ‘Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Take full vengeance for the sons of Israel on the Midianites…”and Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian, to execute the LORD’S vengeance on Midian.”’

We must understand, however, that God does not command us to take our religion to others by the sword. That is the way of Islam. God does not allow us to take revenge on others for their crimes against us. He will take His revenge in His own terrible way. God commands us to act is a just way and execute justice against those who have committed crimes. He has given us His Word, the Holy Scripture to teach us how to function in every good work. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.” (II Timothy 3:16-17)

Islam

I have had many, many responses from my last Post about the quotations from the Quran and my commentary on them, most very positive. The drumbeat from the secular media continues to be that Islam stands for peace, and that the terrorists are fanatics who have a distorted view of Islam. The truth is that Sunni Islam, like Protestant Christianity, does not have any one official person or even an organization that speaks for the group. (In contrast, the Catholics have the Pope, and the Shia Muslims have authoritative spokesmen in the Ayatollas.) Since Sunni Muslims are 90% of the total (and include Osama bin Laden), it is nearly impossible to say with any authority what real Islamic theology is - there are many conflicting ideas within Islam itself on how to interpret it.

But one thing is evident. There are fundamentalist Christians, and fundamentalist Muslims. Both groups take their holy book seriously and literally. Although the secular world may think fundamentalist Christians are weird and politically incorrect, they are not known to be violent. It is the fundamentalist Muslims who often become so. Why? Because there are some basic differences between the books in which they believe. If a "Christian" becomes a terrorist or a warmonger, he is one despite the clear teaching in the Bible against it, whereas the Muslim warrior has grounds in the Quran (rightly or wrongly interpreted) for his actions.

One objective in writing this and the last letter was to encourage people in the West to read the Quran for themselves, and not depend on the newspaper to describe it with a few out-of-context quotes. I called several bookshops in our area of California and they said the Quran was selling briskly. Get one and read it! It is a difficult book to wade through, but it is not too long, and I urge you to persevere.

Finally, although the root of the word "Islam" means "peace" (the three consonants SLM), the actual word as written means "submission." A Muslim is a person in submission to God, and all other people should be submitted to the Muslims in a rightly ordered world, according to the Quran. Those in America whose highest value is tolerance would find themselves not tolerated in an Islamic society. Please pray that our leaders would have wisdom in dealing with this entire situation, and that as believers, we would not fall into sin ourselves in our struggle to uphold righteousness and justice. Pray for the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, that they would no longer be deceived by false promises in this life or the next for participating in violence against others. Pray that even Bin Laden and his followers would repent and turn from evil.

What a breathtakingly, well-written post this is!

I concur wholeheartedly.

IMHO, it should be printed out & re-read.

Except he screws up in the first line... it was NOT a Monday it was a TUESDAY. I will never forget it.

Good stuff. Prepare to be labeled as a racist, hate spewer.

Well I for one *HOPE* This thread doesn't start down that road THL... Not like other threads that have/had started flame wars... this one like many is very good reading....

Thanks for Posting dccrens!!!!

Hog

This is a great post.

I am a fervent advocate of tolerance, but these facts must be heard (and their implications understood).

“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.”’ (Q 9:5)

"Islam" will reserve the right to define what is idolatry, and who is an idolater.

Paging SKATTY2HOTTY :

Weren't we discussing this in the "history test" thread last week?

Islam is NOT tolerant, but most Muslims are.

That's still no excuse for putting wimmen's panties on their heads and laughing at their genitals.

You betcha!

I've had that done to me and it's no picnic.

it may be no excuse . . but it sure beats holding a prisoner down by putting a knee in his neck and sawing his head off . .

SAUDI'S

As the Saudi royal family battles Islamic extremists in the streets of their capital, Riyad, they still continue to pay for the spread of fanatical Islamic hate. Freedom House's Center for Religious Freedom has released a report which examined more than 200 mosques in the United States and found that documents used to teach Muslims advocated hatred for Christians and Jews and denounced democracy as un-Islamic. All the literature, funded by the Saudi government, called for the elimination of the nation of Israel. The Saudi royals just don't get it ... the Wahhabi extremism they finance is the problem and until they move their nation and their people away from this insane belief system, terror throughout the world and in their own backyard will continue.

http://freedomhouse.org/religion/news/bn2005/bn-2005-01-28.htm 

Hog

A religion of love....ha! Sounds like a religion of death and destruction, but we already knew there were the extremest within, now it looks to me like we got more than the few militants to worry about!

Charlie

Hmmmmm....

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This paper was written by a Pastor and religious scholar I know...

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(hmmmm. no lack of objectivity here)

This discourse looks suspiciously similar to the dogma found on a certain Christian ministries website. (www.contenderministries.com) Ok, it can be found on many Christian ministries websites. Be that as it may - lets have a look at what appears to be nothing more than poorly camoflauged proselytizing.

Inre: 9/11

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*These men were Muslims, what most would call Islamic “Fundamentalists.” They follow the teaching of Mohammed as written down in the Koran (or Qur’an).

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As the KKK believes it is following the teachings of God as written down in the Holy Bible.

As the terrorist who firebombs an abortion clinic thinks he is doing God's work.

As Torquemada was following Christian teachings to the best of his ability.

Nothing new here.

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*Mohammed lived about 600 years after Christ and was familiar with both Christianity and Judaism, but the Koran teaches there is only one “correct” religion; the religion of Islam. All who disagree are labeled as “infidels.”

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Let's talk more about infidels for a moment:

Quote:

"Muslim rulers allowed the establishment of a permanent Jewish community in Jerusalem in 638, something forbidden for 500 years. In Muslim Spain, Jewish scholars, poets, physicians and rabbis participated for several centuries in what many have called a "Golden Age," even though Jews still faced severe discrimination from Muslims in jobs, the building of synagogues, housing, clothing and taxation.

Still, that existence was better than the fate of 11th century Jewish communities in France and Germany who were murdered by the Christian crusader warriors as they marched to Jerusalem to rid the Holy City of "infidels," the Muslims and Jews.

In 1099 the crusaders burned the infidels alive who were trapped inside their Jerusalem synagogues and mosques. In those years, Jews and Muslims, while not allies, were, however, the common victims of Christian zealots who massacred both communities when they could." Unquote.

Did I get this from a militant Islamic website? Not exactly. source site: "The Center for Catholic/Jewish Studies". (Rabbi Rudin, American Jewish Committee's senior interreligious adviser, to be exact)

Let's see what God has to say about "infidels" or "non-believers" in His word:

Deut. 13:6,10

"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Lev. 24:13,16

And The Lord said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death."

It seems the Christian Bible teaches there is only 1 God, and all who denounce him, all who try to influence you away from him, all who even speak against his teachings, are to be slain. Period.

Of course the Bible doesn't stop there. God commands the people he loves so much to put their own sons and daughters (sometimes literally) to death for other reasons as well.

Deut. 21:18,21

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them;

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place:

And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

So, If your son is fat. parties too much, or just disobeys you, Hell, just have him killed. Nice.

Almost any reason seems to be acceptable justification for "infidel" murder...

Num. 15:32,36

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Honor the Sabbath, or else...

Now usually one hears the standard weak defense: "those were different times", "thats now what He meant", "that's the OLD testament". Funny how Bible advocates who use the Bible as their ultimate authority, claim it as the actual "Word of God", and quote select verses from it when it suits their agenda, tend to shy away from all the other verses that don't support their own personal views. Yet in the same breath, they will pull a verse from another religion, take it out of historical context, interpret it with a Christian mindset, and pass judgement on the whole religion. Bravo.

‘Islam's earnest goal, set forth in the Koran (three versions were consulted) and hadith (Islamic written tradition), remains the same: to bring all mankind into submission (that's what "Islam" means) and to kill or enslave all "infidels" (unbelievers in Allah and Muhammad his prophet -- Surah 2:190-92; 4:76; 5:33; 9:5,29,41; 47:4, etc)

Have you read any Islamic interpretations on the verses you sited (Surah 2:190-192 etc..) written by Islamic clerics or theologians or professors as opposed to Christian Evangelists interpretations? Didn't think so. Folks, instead of swallowing the pablum you are spoon fed with your eyes closed whilst rubbing your belly as if sated, try looking for yourself. Nah, don't want reason and intellect to get in the way of blind faith now do we...

An interpretation from a Muslim: (Prof. Mohamed Elmasry - Nat'l Pres. Canadian Islamic Congress)

The Qur'an repeatedly emphasizes that defensive war -- fighting to protect oneself against invading enemies -- is the only kind of combat sanctioned (2:190 - 191). In numerous other examples, it teaches that the use of force should be a last resort (2:192, 4:90); that normal relations between peoples, nations and states, whether Muslim or not, should be peaceful (49:13); that necessary wars must be limited in time and space (2:190); that maximum effort must be applied at all times to advance the cause of peace (10:25); that whatever means are undertaken to work for peace during a conflict (such as mediation and arbitration) must be attempted over and over again until resolution is achieved (8:61); that freedom of religion must be granted to every one (2:256), and so on.

He espouses that the verses signify peace wherever possible, war only in self-defense. Your source finds it profitable to his business to soe fear and misunderstanding among his people. Pass the plate, or the altar boy, or whatever is getting passed these days, it certainly isn't tolerance and understanding. Come to think of it, it never has been about that has it... Imagine that, same as it ever was.

Ok - this is too easy. I must apologize because I myself suffer from intolerance. I am intolerant towards those who are intolerant. Quite the dilemma, but I manage. To further shred this diatribe is pointless, almost as much so as the original entity itself. The outright falsehoods further on are almost comical and don't merit comment. BTW: We all know our government backed UBL and the Mujahideen for years & years right? No one denies this, it's just conveniently forgotten. Praying for him to repent is somewhat less effective than it would have been to never sanction & support his terrorist activities in the first place.

About me, it's only fair I share a little background. I am not a Christian (no kidding) nor a Muslim (surprise), nor am I affiliated with any religious organization in any way. I'm a registered Republican, an Air Force veteran, and a staunch Bush NON-supporter. I want my brothers & sisters home, not dying for oil or religion or invisible WMDs.

One more thing:

9/11 was a tragedy.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596 )

The invasion of Iraq in March 2003 by coalition forces has lead to the death of at least 100,000 civilians, reveals the first scientific study to examine the issue.

The majority of these deaths, which are in addition those normally expected from natural causes, illness and accidents, have been among women and children, finds the study, released early by The Lancet on Thursday.

The most common cause of death is as a direct result of violence, mostly caused by coalition air strikes, reveals the study of almost 1000 households scattered across Iraq. And the risk of violent death just after the invasion was 58 times greater than before the war. The overall risk of death was 1.5 times more after the invasion than before.

The figure of 100,000 – estimated by extrapolating the surveyed households’ death toll to the whole population - is based on "conservative assumptions", notes Les Roberts at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, US, who led the study.

That estimate excludes Falluja, a hotspot for violence. If the data from this town is included, the study points to about 200,000 excess deaths since the outbreak of war.

Who's the terrorist & who's the freedom fighter? How do you explain to the produce clerk in Iraq that the United States needed to drop a 500LB JDAM in his neighborhood, that the death of his wife & 4 small children was something we needed to do in order to help him have a better life? Innocent blood is innocent blood. Collateral damage is just a word, created solely to salve the nagging conscience of the legitamized killer.

Before regurgitating the party line, condemning another man's religion, and perhaps a people as a whole, one should look to his/her own house & see if they truly feel justified casting that stone.

I seem to have heard somewhere something like "Whatsoever ye soweth, so shall ye reap"...

(another thread that should be topped)

This thread should be read and read again because the western world is currently undergoing ANOTHER surreptitious muslim invasion.

They are using our own laws, freedoms to achieve their gains of muslim law & intolerance. Just look at what happened to Lebannon when they achieved majority status. The Christians were set aside & war began.

Ironic, that in many of their home countries Christian converts are often killed and those Christians who are foolish enough to display a crucifix or a bible can be imprisoned AND tortured by these wonderful hosts.

DaBear said: "Muslim rulers allowed the establishment of a permanent Jewish community in Jerusalem in 638, something forbidden for 500 years. In Muslim Spain, Jewish scholars, poets, physicians and rabbis participated for several centuries in what many have called a "Golden Age," even though Jews still faced severe discrimination from Muslims in jobs, the building of synagogues, housing, clothing and taxation."

**True it was labeled the "Golden Age" by outsiders who saw the advancements in medicine, engineering, and the sciences by the muslims. Some of which had been Greek in origin, by the way.

What you didn't mention was the religious intolerance, bigotry, and pogroms of the muslim "conquerors" against the Christians (not just the few jews). They were tolerated , at best, as cruel invaders by the Spanish. One third of the country was never subjugated by these blood- thirsty people. The King of Castile finally managed to drive them out after almost eight centuries of guerilla warfare back to hellish sand countries from whence they came.

Funny that you should also mention Torquemada, the chief architect and enforcer of the Spanish Inquisition, which by the way was the smallest of the European inquisitions & said to have killed about 400 innocents- not a small amount but certainly not the imagined "thousands" bandied about. Torquemada was a secular Jew who "converted" to Christianity & used his self-hating zest to springboard the religious tribunals.

My wife's Greek ancestors were also harshly subjugated by these "advanced" people. They had to hide ALL remnants of their Christianity or their Turkish captors would skewer them through the anus and "cook"/torture them slowly over fires.

Truly a wonderfully enlightened and tolerant religion which richly deserves to be defended...LOL!!!

DaBear,

Without wading through all of the text, the simple idea is that the Koran explicitly calls to violence, based on a subjective judgement of who is following god.

Yes. "christianity", whatever that is, has equivalent crimes against humanity in its history. However, you site the old testiment... and there is a fundamental difference.

Christ was a pacifist!...

The old testiment (history and law) is supposed to be obsolete in most "christian doctorine", being replaced by Christ's simple message of love (turn the other cheek, don't judge, love god and each other).

It is a little ironic, that the old testiment (torah) and the koran, both lead to a similar result... violent championing of the "will of god"

Damn good response Bloody, and thank you. Intolerance is a recurring theme throughout history. I think in a lot of respects it has to do with power, and survival.

It seems most religious text, from the Quran to the Bible to the Torah, contains passages that can be interpreted as intolerance to the point of violence. But that is "can be interpreted" as opposed to "should be interpreted". These works are all "words of god", but they were transcribed by men. Divine inspiration perhaps, but not without human shortcomings.

I believe extremists make up a very small minority of the Muslim population. Muslims who truly read and revere the Quran, who see Jihad as a "Jihad of the heart", and who live their lives under the benevolent guidance of "Allah the merciful, the compassionate", are very similar to devout Christians and Jews. This would seem to make sense, as the Quran took many of it's stories and teachings from the Pentateuch (aka. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)

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A review of the Koran shows Allah creating Adam, and then Eve. Later, Abraham is instructed by Allah to take his son to a hill and to sacrifice him, which Abraham prepares to do. The Koran includes a variance here from the Bible/Torah/Pentateuch in that the son to be sacrificed was not Isaac but Ishmael, his first son. As in the Bible, Allah stopped Abraham from completing the sacrifice, but Abraham had proven his total Devotion, establishing himself as the very first true believer in the One Allah.

Scholars all agree that these many similarities necessarily establish that Allah is one and the same as the God YHWH (Jehovah) of the Jews and the same as He Who Christians call Father.

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As for my personal opinion:

Islam is not an evil religion. Christianity & Judaism are not evil religions. Nor are Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other mainstream established religion. It is the knowing and malignant misinterpretation of any religion that is evil.

In the case of Muslim extremists; any person or persons who use a twisted interpretation of a holy work to further their own views and agenda through the bloodshed of innocent life needs to be eradicated. Period.

PMoreno:

I don't know if the old testament is still widely used in sermons and as a teaching tool, but from what I remember being taught, long long ago, the whole bible is "the word of God". I've heard the arguement made that those books are "parables", not to be taken literally, but I guess my point was how easy it is to take a book of faith and interpret it many different ways.

I know my post reads like a slam on the Bible, but in fact I love the Bible, as well as the Quran and the Torah and a host of other inspired works. They are all brilliant works of art.

As for Jesus being a pacifist, I believe he was. Opponents can point to:

Matthew 10:34

(Jesus said) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

No matter what the interpretation, I feel that verse is trumped by the trial in the Garden of Gethsemani. He allowed himself to be captured, (by the Jews) and subsequently tortured and murdered (by the Romans). Doen't get much more pacifistic than that.

The problem is the whole issue of pacifism WRT following his teachings opens up an "economy size" can of worms with regard to politics and statecraft. My take is, he wasn't concerned with power or governance, he was speaking to the soul of the common man, and portraying what each man/woman should strive for.

Bro, I'm not a Christian, so my thoughts may not coincide with current Christian teachings, but there they are. I need to work on making my points more concisely, and I am, so "bear" with me. 🙂

During the 1992 Gulf War, Christian (Catholic)troops killed on Saudi soil were required to be placed in a helocopter, and raised into a hover, because the Saudis would not allow the Last Rites to be performed on Saudi soil! So much for the tolerance of Islam! We allow the prisoners at Gintmo to pray facing Mecca several times a day. We are intolerant. Read my post on gross hypocracy!

....that's funny Foster, I didn't know that, and I lost a lot of folks on that soil. I had a few VERY Christian memorial services for them on that ground also. Where are you getting that information? Please explain?

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During the 1992 Gulf War, Christian (Catholic)troops killed on Saudi soil were required to be placed in a helocopter, and raised into a hover, because the Saudis would not allow the Last Rites to be performed on Saudi soil!

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That's interesting. Could you please include a source site, I'd like to read about that.