My son was stabbed at school (if there were no schools this never would have happened?) by a pencil. The same kids sharpened a lollipop stick and stabbed him again the following year. A gun is a tool and can be used for good or bad.

I don't buy it... a fist is a tool and can be used in devastating ways... I got lead from a pencil in my leg from someone who stabed me with in grade school.. I didn't come back to school the next day and blow his brains out... I waited until recess and was suspended for 3 days ;0) But he never f*cked with me again even through high school... and all I had to do was give him a look see

Hog

The first incident wasn't witnessed by the teachers and both boys were "wrote up" for fighting. The other boy was also sent for testing due to the more extreme nature of his aggression. The second time, my kid simply kicked the snot out of him. After an investigation it was determined my kids acted second and in self defense. The other kid now must go to a different school.

Yup, had he had access to a hammer, screw driver, kitchen knife, etc., etc., or simply known how to use the pencil, it might have ended up differently. My kid never thought about taking one of my guns to school for revenge.

Remember folks, when the liberals, communists, pacifists, and ignorants say they want gun control, they don't want all guns removed from society. They still want the goverment forces to keep theirs. What has history shown about this?

"When guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns..."

catchy phrase, ...

but it can't possibly mean to a corporate gang member who dresses in a blue uniform and wears body armor and a badge the same as what it means to a free man who understands that guns "CAN'T" be outlawed and he remain living at liberty in the land of the free and home of the brave.

Were congress or a state legislature to pass legislation purportedly "outlawing" guns, and you kept your gun(s). Does that mean you're an outlaw? I think not. Our pre-constitutional patriots, called minutemen, were in possession of "guns" in violation of their country's laws. Were they "outlaws"?

Neither congress nor any state legislature have the power necessary to "outlaw" guns, unless we the people voluntarily capitulate to it, even were the executive (governor or president) to sign such an atrocity. Our moral obligation to protect our organic governments and their "self-evident" truths (through deadly force if necessary) are far more important ... me thinks.

Purp

Mo'sMan,

Are you saying we should disregard the entire study I posted because it included suicides in addition to homicide? That logic doesn't make sense to me. The study says you're 2x as likely to die by a gun (non suicide related) if you have one at home. That's a 100% increase in number. I think that backs up my assertion that people should be trained to use the weapons of killing they keep in their home.

The Brady group may be biased, but that doesn't make their sources biased. Their sources come from government reported numbers.

I realize that the phrase isn't perfect by any means, but it gets a good point across, I still believe. The fact is, if individual citizens are not allowed to possess firearms, then they fall to the mercy of those who do; law enforcement officers who's primary responsibility is to RESPOND to crime, and to the thugs, perpetrating the crimes... The average citizen would be left with no way to protect themselves from unjustice, and this would be a sad state indeed... Not that I think we are of in any grave danger of it at this juncture, but it is something to keep in mind. Look at some other countries that have completely outlawed private ownership of firearms, such as the U.K. These laws were intended to reduce violent crime, when in fact, it has done quite the opposite. Just a thought...

Sarge

cavscout wrote: "Look at some other countries that have completely outlawed private ownership of firearms, such as the U.K. These laws were intended to reduce violent crime, when in fact, it has done quite the opposite."

U.K.'s rate per capita of violent crime is miniscule compared to the U.S. You didn't pick a very good example.

Has anyone here actually used a gun to save themselves or their family during a break in of their home? I'd like to hear how it went.

bmellis......I'm saying those numbers had nothing to do with self defense and defense of home. Of course you'd take the easiest way out. However, the same could be accomplished any number of ways. Peope who decide to commit suicide, do so, no matter how they choose to do so.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/27/1728_59957 

The Brady group reports SOME of the numbers. I'd ask you to look at the NRA site for truth regarding these figures.

http://guncontrolpolicy.com/commentary/5.html 

http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm 

Used one several times. Many on the job, twice off. Both times off-duty prevented armed robberies. No shots ever fired, the presentation was adequate. Bad guys aren't always real bright, but they seem to know that bringing a knife to a gunfight isn't a good thing.

>bmellis......I'm saying those numbers had nothing to >do with self defense and defense of home. Of course >you'd take the easiest way out. However, the same >could be accomplished any number of ways. Peope who >decide to commit suicide, do so, no matter how they >choose to do so.

What are you trying to do? The first study says: "Wiebe's study found that people with a gun in their home were almost twice as likely to die in a gun-related HOMICIDE"

Here's another from Kellermann, AL, Rivara, FP, Rushforth NB, et al. "Gun ownership as a risk factor for homicide in the home." N Engl J Med. 1993;329:1084-1091: "The presence of a gun in the home triples the risk of homicide in the home"

What's the easy way out I'm taking?

>>http://my.webmd.com/content/article/27/1728_59957

I don't see how this one refutes what I've said.

>>The Brady group reports SOME of the numbers. I'd ask >>you to look at the NRA site for truth regarding >>these figures.

>>http://guncontrolpolicy.com/commentary/5.html

This one doesn't even list sources. Just some angry republican who tries to make a case by misquoted esoteric "studies" that he's afraid to list. What's he hiding?

>>http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm

This site makes guns look bad, I don't know why you posted this one. I like the line: "The Brady Bill was implemented in February of 1994. In 1997, the number of violent crimes committed with firearms had fallen 25% since 1994, while the overall number of violent crimes had declined 14%." Looks like the Brady bill and the Clinton crime bill was working.

O.J. did not need a gun!!

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

bmellis.......How did gun control help these people?

Mo,

You're talking pure stupidity. If you want to talk about China, I'll be glad to do so with you. Just make sure you bring plenty of ammo. What you think you know, and what is reality might just surprise you...........

I somehow doubt I'll evr take you very seriously. Your reality is scary.

What type of political dissidents are you speaking of? Traitors would be shot in this country too.

hmmm.......care to site law? Could you also address how gun control helped those poor chinese people? Also, is being a disident, no matter from what viewpoint the charge arises from, equal? If I am against communism, and am shot in the head without a trial the same as being against democracy and being shot AFTER my trial the same?

Who is shot without trial? Don't give me some figures from 30 years ago either. Let's talk 21st century here. We killed our own in the past too.

let's not talk about 30 years ago? those who don't learn history are doomed.......well, you understand.

Yes, and China learned it's history. 20 years ago it's dictator died, and it's students revolted in the streets and gave their lives for Democracy. Now 20 years later they have a Democratically elected Government, and have made more progress in Democracy in the past 10 years than any other country on the face of the planet. History is being made right now, and you are still looking at the past.

Learn from the past, and then don't repeat it. You are living in it.