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dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#21

Really? Perhaps we should isolate them globally until they cease ALL automobile production. Russia, too. And those pesky New Guineans deserve some hostile attention, too. They could ramp up their dug-out canoe production and mount BAR's on them overnight.
Really? I imagine that by this point in 2012 the Chinese have figured out how to manufacture weapons without a lot of Chrysler assistance.

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#22

dstieger wrote:

Having the Los Alamos facility with the doors wide open for 8 years sure helped![sarcasm]

havana1
Connoisseur

13 years ago

#23

nurses, police, fire fighters, sheriffs and so on, all belong to unions. are they thought of in the same manner as the
union my father was in for forty years??? Electrical workers union??

Not all union employees are "whiners"!

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#24

Not all union employees are "whiners"!

havana1 wrote:

Seriously doubt anyone here would say or think that. But, I agree with HD and the general statement that unions willingly shot and ate the goose. Now, they protest that nobody's got eggs for them. Once they surrendered to the collective, they (unfortunately) get what the collective has dealt them.

bloody spaniard
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#25

^ beautifully said

IMO, government pensioners & double dippers are one of the few sacred cows left. I expect that'll change as well.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#26

^ beautifully said

IMO, government pensioners & double dippers are one of the few sacred cows left. I expect that'll change as well.

bloody spaniard wrote:

They're under the Cone until the bankruptcy.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#27

havana1 wrote:

As noble as these types of unions profess to be, sometimes they are pretty darn good at trying to kill the golden goose. In their case the mentality is the company(government) can just raise prices (taxes) and not go bankrupt therefore there really is no end to how much more money they can demand.

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#28

HockeyDad wrote:

When there's a "bubble" going on everyone is fine and not looking at the bottom line.

When we hit economic straits and headlines state we cannot pay back what we owe towards our national debt and John Q. Sixpack's paycheck doesn't cover what it used to well...Katy bar the door..."Better save the women and children first. Sail away with someone's daughter. Better save the women and children first."
:-"

Perhaps we should look at the entire story...Chrysler was bailed out by the US govt. once before...paid their debt back early...then fell into the same old issues that brought them to the brink of bankruptcy...somewhere in the middle the inventor of the automobile...Daimler/Benz took a run at operating them and got out at a loss...they couldn't make a go of it either...they did keep the coveted fuel cell technology that the engineers at Dodge had created though...then they fell on their knees and went begging to Timothy Geitner...a man that couldn't seem to figure out how to use Turbo Tax BUT ran the NY Federal Reserve and is now the Treasury Sec.!...they got their bailout money and now Fiat buys them for pennies on the dollar for what the US taxpayer has invested. It doesn't surprise me in the least to see the story that they want to fire the plants back into production in China. What did get my attention was the word "ALL" placed all over the article. Now the story has been redacted and the interpretation different than the original because...well because it's an election year!

C'mon people...the swindle is the swindle.

"Ever Get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten

Edited by user 13 years ago | Reason: Not specified

JadeRose
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#29

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/26/jeep-china-romney-offshoring-wrong-false-gm/

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#30

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/26/jeep-china-romney-offshoring-wrong-false-gm/

JadeRose wrote:

"Here's what is true: Chrysler is indeed considering a plan to make Jeeps in China. But it's not planning to send those Jeeps to the U.S. to sell -- and it's definitely not planning to close the factories that currently make Jeeps in Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio."

They already have them...they were idled...Fiat now owns the brand and can do whatever it wants with it. Fiat is an Italian company. They're not flush with cash and will do what they need to to survive. They followed Business 101 rules...Buy cheap - Sell high.

The OP had nothing to do with a political candidate. Now the story has morphed into one.

I guess I read the same article Mittens did too. Still the word "ALL"...it had a meaning to be used so many times. Food for thought.

drywalldog
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#31

Had it on a Sunday show , that Jeep was only gonna build in China for its market. And was gonna add 1500 jobs in America on Gran Cherokee line, sorry Doc.

drywalldog
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#32

Oh yeah, Doc, come on down.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#33

Oh yeah, Doc, come on down.

drywalldog wrote:

You waited 11 minutes and then took a victory lap? Hail Obama! 4 more years 'cause the last 4 years were kick-ass!

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#34

Had it on a Sunday show , that Jeep was only gonna build in China for its market. And was gonna add 1500 jobs in America on Gran Cherokee line, sorry Doc.

drywalldog wrote:

Can you read or what?

Following a timeline on a thread a bit above your head?

Or is the temptation to take a run at me too overwhelming for your brain to grasp that you cannot see the posts?

Like HD stated already...and what you already know...the last 4 years were soooo kick ass! Yeah! Vote for the Butcher of Benghazi!

Edited by user 13 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#35

4 wheel drive DRAMA!

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#36

AUTO BAILOUT BOMBSHELL: Fiat Says Chrysler, Jeep Production May Move to Italy

Coming hot on the heels of speculation that some Jeep production may be moved to China comes a bombshell from a Bloomberg report. Fiat is now considering moving Chrysler and Jeep production to Italy.

According to the piece, "To counter the severe slump in European sales, (Fiat CEO Sergio) Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said."

So, let's be real clear here, we are talking about vehicles that will be built in Italy and exported to America. The evidence is clear that Fiat is looking at ways to move production of vehicles from the US to elsewhere, whether it be China or Italy, costing American jobs. This is becoming indisputable, despite outcries from certain parties to the contrary.

Mitt Romney has rightfully criticized the Obama Administration for handing over Chrysler to the Italians and now leaving the fate of American workers in the hands of Fiat management. Fiat is not a healthy company and the auto industry is in as great a risk as ever. The insistence that all is well by those with political motivations does not mask the danger. More jobs are at risk of being lost and more taxpayer money may be lost as well.

Let's face it, the auto bailouts were not well thought out. Perhaps General Motors' CEO, Dan Akerson, said it best when he said, "The good thing about our bankruptcy is that it took only 39 days. The bad news is that bankruptcy took only 39 days. If we had been there longer, people would have asked these questions and looked at these things."

The whole auto industry bailout process was rushed through with the wrong primary motivation of protecting the politically powerful UAW's interests. The Obama Administration never considered that giving Chrysler to Fiat was not a great idea and could eventually hurt the same UAW workers it was trying to protect. Manufacturers like Chrysler and GM are at a competitive disadvantage due to UAW obligations that were not properly addressed in the bankruptcy process. The industry is more competitive than ever and the government does not seem to be the best innovators to lead the sector to real health. This truth is very likely to become more apparent when the political season ends.

http://nlpc.org/cached/fiat-says-chrysler-jeep-production-may-move-italy.html?q=stories/2012/10/29/fiat-says-chrysler-jeep-production-may-move-italy

:-k

Now, where did I hear some of this before? Add Chrysler to the mix now!

Edited by user 13 years ago | Reason: Not specified

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#37

Here's the Bloomberg story mentioned above!

Marchionne Seen Missing Fiat Sales Target by $19 Billion

Fiat SpA (F) Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne set a target two and a half years ago to sell 6 million cars annually by 2014, a goal that analysts and industry observers at the time deemed impossible to achieve. They were right.

Marchionne, who runs both the Italian automaker and Chrysler Group LLC, has said he will revise his forecasts when the two companies announce third-quarter results tomorrow. Analysts estimate his sales target will need to come down by 15 billion euros ($19 billion).

“Marchionne was too optimistic in 2010,” said Giuseppe Berta, a professor at Bocconi University in Milan who has written several books on Fiat and has worked as a company historian. “Fiat and Chrysler can’t grow by self-propulsion to the famous 6 million-car target.”

With European auto sales headed for their biggest drop in almost two decades this year, Fiat has said losses in the region are on pace to widen to 700 million euros. A quick turnaround will be a challenge with austerity measures set to restrain demand to below pre-crisis levels until at least 2017, according to forecaster LMC Automotive.

Marchionne, who said as recently as April that he could stop losses in Europe within two years, will have to make do with lower sales than originally expected. The 2014 revenue target for the group, including Chrysler, Ferrari and Maserati, could be cut to 89 billion euros from the 2010 forecast of 104 billion euros, according to a Bloomberg survey of 13 analysts.

Shares Drop

Fiat dropped 2 cents, or 0.6 percent, to 4.12 euros at the close of trading in Milan today. The stock has gained 16 percent this year, valuing the carmaker at 5.15 billion euros.

In unit sales, Fiat is likely to fall short of the target by 27 percent, or 1.6 million cars. Researcher IHS Automotive is predicting sales of 4.4 million in 2014 for the group, up from 4.1 million this year. In Europe, though, IHS expects sales to fall 1.4 percent to about 917,000, while in North America they could jump 6.2 percent to 2 million.

Fiat, which declined to comment for this story, isn’t alone in struggling in Europe. The French government has had to support PSA Peugeot Citroen (UG) by backing 7 billion euros in new bonds for its financing arm. Ford Motor Co. (F) is closing three plants in the region, Daimler AG (DAI) scrapped its profit target for next year, and Volkswagen AG (VOW) posted its largest drop in earnings since 2009 in the third quarter.

Italian Plunge

Fiat’s problems are bigger than many rivals’ because its troubled home country accounts for half its sales in the region. Its plants in Italy, where car sales are on pace to plunge this year to the lowest level in more than three decades, are running at 50 percent of capacity, far below the 80 percent threshold typically considered profitable.

To counter the severe slump in European sales, Marchionne is considering building Chrysler models in Italy, including Jeeps, for export to North America. The Italian government is evaluating tax rebates on export goods to help Fiat. Marchionne may announce details of his plan as soon as Oct. 30, the people said.

“This makes sense on multiple levels” as it will boost plant utilization and would cap “Chrysler’s own potential, limiting the likely cost to Fiat shareholders of buying out the Chrysler minorities,” Stuart Pearson, an analyst at Morgan Stanley in London, said in a note to investors today. “However we see no quick answers, and fear debt could surprise negatively first,” said Pearson, who rates the stock underweight with a target price at 3.90 euros.

Europe Concern

“We are all concerned” about the European crisis, Marchionne said in an interview in Brussels on Oct. 10. While declining to give any details, he said he would update his targets for 2014 by the end of this month.

Those European woes have been offset by the strong performance of Chrysler, Fiat’s Brazilian division and supercar- maker Ferrari SpA. For the third quarter, Fiat’s earnings before interest taxes and one-time gains or costs -- what it calls trading profit -- will increase 10 percent to 938 million euros, according to the average estimate of four analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. Marchionne said at an event in Shanghai yesterday that third-quarter results are in line with estimates.

Partner Search

“Chrysler and Brazil, the group’s strengths, could compensate for the half-disaster in Europe in the short term,” said Massimo Cassia, head of equity at Sella Gestioni Sgr in Milan, who manages about 1.7 billion euros including Fiat shares. “Fiat is massively burning cash in Europe, has few new models in the pipeline, and faces a huge issue of overcapacity.”

Marchionne, 60, has acknowledged that he neglected Europe while fixing Chrysler. While he ultimately would like to merge the two companies into a single global giant, he said he wants to get Fiat back on track before that can happen.

A merger could help the Italian carmaker survive the crisis by providing a reliable source of cash flow. Marchionne has said that in the long term, Fiat and Chrysler may need a third partner to survive and that he has held partnership talks with Mazda Motor Corp. (7261) and Suzuki Motor Corp. (7269)

Last month, Marchionne confirmed Fiat’s targets for 2012, including a revenue increase of at least 29 percent, to more than 77 billion euros, and a 59 percent jump in trading profit to at least 3.8 billion euros. Those gains, though, come mostly thanks to the full consolidation of Chrysler, which last year was included for only seven months.

‘Reality Check’

Marchionne may offer a “reality check on his 2014 targets” when Fiat releases earnings tomorrow, Gianantonio Villani, an analyst at Kepler in Milan, said in a note investors. Villani expects the carmaker’s global sales to be flat next year with revenue falling 8 percent in Europe.

Fiat has suspended investments in Italy, cutting European spending by 500 million euros in 2012, and has delayed new models, including the Punto hatchback because Marchionne doesn’t expect a recovery in the region before 2014.

That strategy of freezing investments and postponing new models has been criticized by politicians and union leaders in Italy and also by Fiat’s main European rival, VW.

Introducing new products is “the preferred strategy than trying to muddle through,” Hans Dieter Poetsch, Volkswagen’s chief financial officer, said on an Oct. 24 conference call, when asked about Fiat’s decision to hold off on refreshing its lineup.

White-Knuckle Ride

The Italian manager, who grew up in Canada, has been urging his European counterparts to come up with a plan to cut overcapacity throughout the region. Fiat itself closed a plant in Sicily last year and is trimming output. The company will halt its Pomigliano plant, where it builds the Panda subcompact, its only new model in the country, from Nov. 26 to Dec. 9, furloughing about 2,000 workers at the facility.

While Marchionne’s aggressive approach to navigating the crisis could still pay off, it may be a white-knuckle ride.

“There are much easier stocks and stories to own in the global auto sector,” Max Warburton, an analyst with Bernstein Research, said in a note to investors. “But while the risks are material, Fiat management’s chosen path could also bring reward.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-28/marchionne-seen-missing-fiat-sales-target-by-19-billion#p1

Ummm...Mazda...they have US plants...jus' sayin'

cacman
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#38

Wonder when the big "O" will start giving everyone a free Jeep?

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

13 years ago

#39

Wonder when the big "O" will start giving everyone a free Jeep?

cacman wrote:

Jeep?

I STILL haven't received my free car from GM!!!

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

13 years ago

#40

Easy my little hothouse flower. Not all auto workers are union.

Speaking of broadbrush statements, you assume everyone who has a problem with unions never worked in a factory, or performed manual labor?

Let me tell you something, pal: I hate broadbrush statements about all the people who make broadbrush statements.\:d/

snowwolf777 wrote:

LMAO. Thank you for being so succinct.

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