frankj1
  • frankj1
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Friday, January 8, 2016 10:38:47 PM
any of you law enforcement folks have stats to share? I have no theories to print, never really gave the subject any thought until the latest tragic story broke...

How much violent crime is associated with stolen guns?

And just how easy is it to acquire such a weapon?

How difficult is it to prevent one's weapon from being stolen anyway?

This latest act was with a gun stolen from a cop! WTF?

MACS
Friday, January 8, 2016 10:45:31 PM
I know a lot of people who have multiple guns have gun safes.

I have 3 pistols, no safe... don't keep them locked, DO keep them loaded. No kids in the house, just me, the wife, and a cat.

Thunder.Gerbil
Friday, January 8, 2016 10:48:23 PM

I know a lot of people who have multiple guns have gun safes.

I have 3 pistols, no safe... don't keep them locked, DO keep them loaded. No kids in the house, just me, the wife, and a cat.

MACS wrote:

Thanks! Now we know whose house to break into when you're not home.

-signed

the bad guys

frankj1
  • frankj1
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Friday, January 8, 2016 10:49:24 PM
I really never gave this much thought, but do we have a problem here?
victor809
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:03:09 PM
... Of course we do....

But we've put up with MACS this many years, why try fixing him now?

MACS
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:06:49 PM
Yeah, you can't fix an old dog with new tricks... or something.
Abrignac
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:13:50 PM

any of you law enforcement folks have stats to share? I have no theories to print, never really gave the subject any thought until the latest tragic story broke...

How much violent crime is associated with stolen guns?

And just how easy is it to acquire such a weapon?

How difficult is it to prevent one's weapon from being stolen anyway?

This latest act was with a gun stolen from a cop! WTF?

frankj1 wrote:

I'll take a stab at it.

A significant number of gun related crimes are committed with stolen firearms. Most gun related crimes are committed by convicted felons. These people are prohibited from possessing firearms because the are convicted felons.

Stolen guns are a preferred weapon because they are cheap. One can easily purchase a stolen handgun worth $400-$500 for $50.

Most guns are stolen from homes that are burglarized.

Most gun safes are crap. I can open any safe you can buy at one of the big box stores in less than a minute with a 5 foot long pinch bar and a 36" pry bar that can be bought at Harbor Freight for less about $45.

Without purchasing a $6000 safe it's impossible to secure your firearms. You best chance is to live in an area that is populated and very well lit. The more shrubs and low hanging trees you have near your house the more inviting it is to a burglar. The best defense is not monitoring. Any decent burglar will be in and out with 5 minutes. It'll take at least that much time for an officer to arrive on scene once the alarm is triggered. The best defense is a well trained dog of a protective breed.

Oh and BTW, those signs that say the owner is armed is an invitation for someone to break in. Since you have proudly advertised that you have firearms they'll simply watch your house for a day or so and figure out when you go and come. They'll come in when no one is home.

HTH

Thunder.Gerbil
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:26:38 PM

Yeah, you can't fix an old dog with new tricks... or something.

MACS wrote:

Yeah, but you can with some anesthetic and a scalpel.

frankj1
  • frankj1
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Friday, January 8, 2016 11:47:19 PM

I'll take a stab at it.

A significant number of gun related crimes are committed with stolen firearms. Most gun related crimes are committed by convicted felons. These people are prohibited from possessing firearms because the are convicted felons.

Stolen guns are a preferred weapon because they are cheap. One can easily purchase a stolen handgun worth $400-$500 for $50.

Most guns are stolen from homes that are burglarized.

Most gun safes are crap. I can open any safe you can buy at one of the big box stores in less than a minute with a 5 foot long pinch bar and a 36" pry bar that can be bought at Harbor Freight for less about $45.

Without purchasing a $6000 safe it's impossible to secure your firearms. You best chance is to live in an area that is populated and very well lit. The more shrubs and low hanging trees you have near your house the more inviting it is to a burglar. The best defense is not monitoring. Any decent burglar will be in and out with 5 minutes. It'll take at least that much time for an officer to arrive on scene once the alarm is triggered. The best defense is a well trained dog of a protective breed.

Oh and BTW, those signs that say the owner is armed is an invitation for someone to break in. Since you have proudly advertised that you have firearms they'll simply watch your house for a day or so and figure out when you go and come. They'll come in when no one is home.

HTH

Abrignac wrote:

Anthony, you know you're my favorite LEO and you didn't make me feel better. The folks who own guns legally, especially from more rural areas, are more or less supplying the illegal gun "industry"? The supply is not from "look the other way" retailers...like when I bought booze as a kid?

May I assume the more rural areas of easier theft are also the areas with higher concentration of gun ownership?

Any idea what percent of legally purchased guns get stolen? Any idea what percent of stolen guns get reported?

And what punishment would the original owner face for "losing" a weapon?

I'm receiving quite an education today. I'm not setting you up, Anth, I'm relying on your accuracy. And I'm not expecting to be comforted.

ZRX1200
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:47:52 PM
I keep mine unlocked AND loaded. Only way they shoot.

Kids don't know where they are, but are trained to leave them alone. We shoot, they have ZERO curiosity. They are kept out of sight and are strategically placed to shoot Californians who think they're smaaaat.

ZRX1200
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:53:59 PM
As far as stats Frank, I believe 80-90% of violent crime is what the stats are with stolen weapons.

The POTUS and people who want guns gone are currently spouting stats that include suicide which accounts for 2/3rds of deaths.

I used to roll with a shotgun and my Daewoo in the gun rack, but I got too many people looking so I started carrying an axe handle in the gun rack instead. Well, I did until me, my brother and some friends got confronted by a group of Mexican dudes. Broke it over my head and asked who was first.....I don't drink that much anymore, and nothing good happens after midnight except surprise sex/BJ'S now.

frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
Friday, January 8, 2016 11:58:40 PM

As far as stats Frank, I believe 80-90% of violent crime is what the stats are with stolen weapons.

The POTUS and people who want guns gone are currently spouting stats that include suicide which accounts for 2/3rds of deaths.

I used to roll with a shotgun and my Daewoo in the gun rack, but I got too many people looking so I started carrying an axe handle in the gun rack instead. Well, I did until me, my brother and some friends got confronted by a group of Mexican dudes. Broke it over my head and asked who was first.....I don't drink that much anymore, and nothing good happens after midnight except surprise sex/BJ'S now.

ZRX1200 wrote:

great story! Daewoos should have made it in America.

I know folks here keep the guns from their kids, but stolen guns!!!

ZRX1200
Saturday, January 9, 2016 12:07:21 AM
Well, because of the Clinton "assault weapons ban" Daewoos were made in Korea and assembled in Stateside (Oregon!). The story was lucky, I'm not that dumb anymore.
teedubbya
Saturday, January 9, 2016 12:10:19 AM
Mine are locked and unloaded but to be honest home defense isn't primary to me. I want to be coherent and alert if using. I like the extra step. I know it's contrary to most.

I grew up with about a dozen long guns mounted on the living room wall not locked and the ammo in the storage room unlocked. Never would have dreamt of touching either without permission. I don't know where the hand guns were.

To each their own.

TMCTLT
Saturday, January 9, 2016 1:29:52 AM

Anthony, you know you're my favorite LEO and you didn't make me feel better. The folks who own guns legally, especially from more rural areas, are more or less supplying the illegal gun "industry"? The supply is not from "look the other way" retailers...like when I bought booze as a kid?

May I assume the more rural areas of easier theft are also the areas with higher concentration of gun ownership?

Any idea what percent of legally purchased guns get stolen? Any idea what percent of stolen guns get reported?

And what punishment would the original owner face for "losing" a weapon?

I'm receiving quite an education today. I'm not setting you up, Anth, I'm relying on your accuracy. And I'm not expecting to be comforted.

frankj1 wrote:

Frank,, Believe it or not a number of gun shops here were hit by thieves not simply by breaking in to the storefront and stealing guns but by driving a vehicle (a van or pickup truck in two instances ) right through the entire storefront after hours. And I'm not sure that your assumption that there are more guns being kept in rural areas vs in any given urban area nor that more are necessarily stolen there. One thing is certain the resolve of some thieves is STRONG

Abrignac
Saturday, January 9, 2016 1:40:51 AM

Anthony, you know you're my favorite LEO and you didn't make me feel better. The folks who own guns legally, especially from more rural areas, are more or less supplying the illegal gun "industry"? The supply is not from "look the other way" retailers...like when I bought booze as a kid?

May I assume the more rural areas of easier theft are also the areas with higher concentration of gun ownership?

Any idea what percent of legally purchased guns get stolen? Any idea what percent of stolen guns get reported?

And what punishment would the original owner face for "losing" a weapon?

I'm receiving quite an education today. I'm not setting you up, Anth, I'm relying on your accuracy. And I'm not expecting to be comforted.

frankj1 wrote:

Which is why I feel the way I feel about "common sense" gun legislation. Actually my answer was misleading. For that I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that living in a rural setting makes one more apt to be burglarized. High crime areas have more burglaries per capita than anywhere else. Most high crime areas are located in the city, not the countryside.

Only a small percentage of firearms are kept in safes. Most are kept in closets, either up high on a shelf, behind clothes that are hanging or hidden in dressor drawers. Most burglars know that. In addition most burglars know who has guns in the neighborhoods they are familiar with.

If one lives far enough from high crimes areas, they are marginally more secure because of distance barriers and randomness. When I said well populated I meant neighborhoods far from high crime areas.

As far the percentage of stolen guns that are reported, no idea. But, experience tells me that socio-economic demographic plays a huge roll in terms of what is and what is not reported. Most of your middle class and above are gonna report. Those that fall in or just above the poverty demographic usually live in higher crime areas and tend to under report for a variety of reasons.

Much like an illness one cannot treat the symptoms and expect to cure an illness. To successfully cure an illness one must treat the cause.

Crime isn't gonna go away. There will always be the 1, 3 and 5 %'ers who prey on the weak. Most of that group live at or near poverty level.

Take a look at the average pre-trial inmate. Most have been arrested numerous times. They will get out and go right back in. Usually for the same type crime. I've seen people get released in the morning and get locked back up the same day.

I remember one frequent flyer who got out one morning a few days before Christmas. He and his wife went Christmas shopping at Walmart later that day. For some reason they forgot to pass by a cashier on their way out. Instead of their kids spending Christmas with their parents, the spent them with someone else.

The only thing that will reduce crime is for those living in poverty to empower themselves. And they must do it themselves. There is a school of thought that says society must take care of those. But, if we are taking care of them, then there was is little incentive for them to take care of themselves. If one can put their hand out and have it filled, there is little incentive for them to produce.

I could go on, but I'm not sure it'll make any difference.

Abrignac
Saturday, January 9, 2016 1:46:29 AM

Frank,, Believe it or not a number of gun shops here were hit by thieves not simply by breaking in to the storefront and stealing guns but by driving a vehicle (a van or pickup truck in two instances ) right through the entire storefront after hours. And I'm not sure that your assumption that there are more guns being kept in rural areas vs in any given urban area nor that more are necessarily stolen there. One thing is certain the resolve of some thieves is STRONG

TMCTLT wrote:

Very true. Stores that sell firearms are frequently targeted, that and pharmacies. I've seen store with cinder block secure rooms burglarized. They climb on the roof and cut a hole with a sawzall then drop a ladder through the ceiling. Not until they drop the ladder through the ceiling does the alarm goes off. They are gone with a load within 2-3 minutes. From the time the alarm sounds until the first officer arrives on scene at least 5 minutes are gonna pass by. They know this and plan accordingly.

DrafterX
Saturday, January 9, 2016 9:38:03 AM

And just how easy is it to acquire such a weapon?

frankj1 wrote:

it's easier than getting a book in some cities... or so I heard... 😟

MACS
Saturday, January 9, 2016 9:41:01 AM

Yeah, but you can with some anesthetic and a scalpel.

Thunder.Gerbil wrote:

I rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

DrafterX
Saturday, January 9, 2016 9:47:42 AM
I may be drunk but at least I'm not Insane..!! 🤣