DrafterX
9 years ago
I'm not mad... I find it funny that they're choosing which memories they want suppressed and which memories they want taught in public schools... 😟



well, I couldn't think of anything else to blame Obama for today.. 😟
victor809
9 years ago
Well... drafter is an idiot.

When one considers a statue to be "historical information" you aren't starting from a real view of education.
teedubbya
9 years ago
Dude the civil war can be taught in schools with or without statues. This literally was forbidden to be taught in schools until very recently....intentionally..... by the folks erecting or wanting confederate statues.... and you are planting your flag on which side?.

Are you really suggesting that if they are going to take down a robert e lee statue they shouldn't teach about the burning down of an affluent black neighborhood, lynchings and 75 years of pretending it didn't happen?
DrafterX
9 years ago
the civil war is slowly being erased... when's the last time you looked at a history book..?? πŸ˜•
victor809
9 years ago
.... provide any evidence the "civil war is slowly being erased"

That's just ... dumb...
teedubbya
9 years ago
The civil war is not being erased. good lord.
DrafterX
9 years ago
well, that's what I heard... 😟
teedubbya
9 years ago
Anyone else reading this thread do yourself a favor.. forget today's politics and events and go read about the tulsa race riot of 1921. It is fascinating and something I had never heard of until the late 90s. It was a closely guarded secret in an age when you could keep things quiet. Absolutely fascinating.

An entire city and state kept the events secret.
teedubbya
9 years ago
I know wiki isn't the best but:

No prosecution took place of any whites for actions committed during the riot. The city settled into an uneasy peace, and decades of virtual silence about the events were held. It was not recognized in the Tulsa Tribune feature of "Fifteen Years Ago Today" or "Twenty-five Years Ago Today". A number of people tried to document the events, gather photographs, and record the name of the dead and injured. Mary E. Jones Parrish, a young black teacher and journalist from Rochester, New York, was hired by the Inter-racial Commission to write an account of the riot. She was herself a survivor, and wrote about her experiences, as well as collecting other accounts, gathering photographs, and compiling "a partial roster of property losses in the African American community". She published this in Events of the Tulsa Disaster (1922; reprinted 1992 and 1998). It was the first book to be published about the riot. [36]

The first academic account was a master's thesis written in 1946 by Loren L. Gill, a veteran of World War II. But it did not then receive circulation beyond the University of Tulsa.[36]

In 1971 a small group of survivors gathered for a memorial service at Mount Zion Baptist Church, both blacks and whites. That year the chamber of commerce decided to commemorate the riot, but when they read the account and saw photos gathered by Ed Wheeler, host of a radio history program, they refused to publish it. He took it to both major newspapers, which refused to handle it. His article was finally published in Impact Magazine, a new publication aimed at a black audience, but most of white Tulsa never knew about it.[36]

In the early 1970s, "πŸ…°long with Henry C. Whitlow, Jr., a history teacher at Booker T. Washington High School, [Mozella Franklin] Jones had not only helped to desegregate the Tulsa Historical Society, but had mounted the first-ever major exhibition on the history of African Americans in Tulsa. Moreover, she had also created, at the Tulsa Historical Society, the first collection of riot photographs available to the public."[36] She worked informally with a white woman, Ruth Sigler Avery, who also was trying to get accounts of the riot told to the public. They encountered pressure, particularly in the white community, to keep silent.[36]
victor809
9 years ago
So a mob of whites loot and burn a black neighborhood...

And the entire city of tulsa keeps it quiet for decades.

This is starting to explain drafter.
teedubbya
9 years ago
You left out the lynchings, and the fact the city of Tulsa actively participated in the riot through the use of its police, not to mention the state through the national guard. They reportedly used planes to start fires.

Then there were the attempts to prevent them from rebuilding and to take their land (ultimately struck down in court) etc.


But most of that isn't odd. The effective silencing is what makes this one stand out.
DrafterX
9 years ago
I never said I agree with what they did... my issues are simple.. At what grade level are we teaching the kids.. And why teach this and remove other representations of history were the black communities were oppressed and abused..??

turn and twist it however you want but my questions are simple... 😟
victor809
9 years ago
Drafter. If you think a statue is "teaching " then you've never learned a complex thought.

To equate teaching a topic in history with venerating someone with a statue is and always will be dumb. Stop using that dumb argument. Only idiots think it has any validity.
teedubbya
9 years ago
I could see planes circling in mid-air. They grew in number and hummed, darted and dipped low. I could hear something like hail falling upon the top of my office building. Down East Archer, I saw the old Mid-Way hotel on fire, burning from its top, and then another and another and another building began to burn from their top,”

β€œLurid flames roared and belched and licked their forked tongues into the air. Smoke ascended the sky in thick, black volumes and amid it all, the planesβ€”now a dozen or more in numberβ€”still hummed and darted here and there with the agility of natural birds of the air.”

Franklin writes that he left his law office, locked the door, and descended to the foot of the steps.


β€œThe side-walks were literally covered with burning turpentine balls. I knew all too well where they came from, and I knew all too well why every burning building first caught from the top,” he continues. β€œI paused and waited for an opportune time to escape. β€˜Where oh where is our splendid fire department with its half dozen stations?’ I asked myself. β€˜Is the city in conspiracy with the mob?’”


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/long-lost-manuscript-contains-searing-eyewitness-account-tulsa-race-massacre-1921-180959251/#WpbIkpJhA4vXg4eJ.99 

teedubbya
9 years ago

I never said I agree with what they did... my issues are simple.. At what grade level are we teaching the kids.. And why teach this and remove other representations of history were the black communities were oppressed and abused..??

turn and twist it however you want but my questions are simple... 😟

DrafterX wrote:




I get it.... removing robert e lee is a disservice to the blacks because it teaches about blacks being abused and oppressed...and if "they" are going to do that than this one should be too. Its either, or neither


As for age, find out. I'm sure it's not a secret. if you disagree with the age have outrage....
DrafterX
9 years ago
This is a shameful part of history that needs sunlight so as not to repeat it.




Or somethin like that.. but the removers argument was these things were hurtful and they didn't want to remember... 😟
teedubbya
9 years ago
I don't think it is glorifying it or celebrating the people that did it.... 😟

I think if there were statues erected in the town square of the instigators there would probably be a movement to remove them.


As I said I'm not for taking confederate statues down. I think they shouldn't be glorified and should be in context. I also think a statue of General Sherman and Grant should also be erected in every confederate county seat.
DrafterX
9 years ago
it's still Obama's fault... 😟
victor809
9 years ago
If every confederate statue had a plaque on it saying "this guy was an azzhole who wanted to keep slavery in the USA and we have this statue here to remember how much of an azzhole he is" I'm sure everyone opposed to the statues would switch sides and support your desire to keep history drafter.
DrafterX
9 years ago
I see the difference.. I guess I did do that knee-jerk reaction thing.. but I'm sure you could understand why I questioned it if you tried... It's not that off the wall... 😟
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