Dr. Maybe you are right, maybe not. One thing for sure is Ali in his prime never lost to a Jabroni like Tyson did, losing to Buster Douglas!

You think Douglas is better than Ali, I dont.

Mag

One other thing about the earlier years.

They used 8oz gloves and went 15 rounds. Since the Du Ku Kim fight, with boom boom knocking Kim out, and Kim dying later, fights started getting stopped earlier, and it went to 12 rnds in the WBC, and a little later the WBA.

Boxing was more brutal in the old days. The fighters we are comparing dont have equal equipment. The chins of the old day fighters had to be better to survive due to the much lighter gloves.

This also changes Tysons power too. He would have been more devastating with 8oz gloves. He also could be in chin trouble himself, getting hit with less padding.

Hard to say for sure, but very interesting.

Mag

I would put Buster Douglas right there with Larry Holmes and Leon Spinks.

Every dog has their day!

There was another. Rocky Marciano.

Very good one LLT. The only reason for me not mentioning him was I had never seen him. I never saw Liston or Lewis either, but have seen tapes of them.

The subject got me thinking, about a tape I got from my Mother this Christmas. Its called Rocky Marciano! Thats it. I may watch it tonight!

It has highlites of his more significant fights of his career!

By the way Dr., the names you mentioned, Ernie Shavers & Michael Spinks are good ones too! Leon, well I dont know about him being one of the best. He did beat Ali and then a few months later lost it back to him. Ali was out of his prime by then. Leon had other problems outside of boxing that shortened his career.


Mag

1984 Olympic Boxing...

http://search.biography.com/print_record.pl?id=6786 

http://search.biography.com/print_record.pl?id=24512 

his is short and does not talk about the 84 Olympics at all... he through a Punch at the Bell and was Disqualified from the Match and lost his chance at the Gold.. the Punch he through Knocked his Apponent Out...
it was very contraversial because in the replays the punch was thrown before the bell rang.. but they let it stick and as a result he lost the Gold... was the first time I seen him fight and I told my Ex Wife at that time... this guy is going to be heavy weight champ someday.... not once but 3 times like Ali...
Sad thing is... Don King Owns him Now.....

Hog

here are some more on boxers...

http://search.biography.com/bio_ft_search.pl?word=Ken+Norton+%28Boxer%29&submit=Go%21 

Nothing on Ken Norton... he lives in Jacksonville IL about 45 min. from me... in 1988 I was over at my Grandpa's and he say's get in the Truck... so we loaded up in the Truck... we headed over to Ken Norton's House... it was cool... he went to the same Church as my Grandma and Grandpa.. and I remember watching the Fights with my Dad on TV... he is still a big guy... and so isn't his Son Ken Norton Jr. played for Dallas Cowboys... I wanted to get back over there some day and meet him in person also...

Hog

Hog I remember that very clearly.

The croud was very loud, Evander didnt hear the bell, at least that was how it was precieved at the time. His last punch was said to be after the bell. His apponent, who won by disqualification, went on to win the gold. Evander won the Bronze. Evander was clearly the superior fighter.

That was very unfortunate. I really like Evander Holyfield. One of boxing's Greatest Warriors.

I believe he went on to beat Dwight Braxton(Mohammad Quowi) to win the Cruiser weight title. Later moved up to beat Tyson for the Heavyweight Title.

Good memory Hog!

Mag

Ken Norton Jr also was out here for a while with the 49ers. Always wearing his cowboy hat!

Mag

I saw Marciano. It was a long time ago. He looked indestructible and had a punch that would stop a semi. I thought Tyson was going to be another Marciano, but something went terribly wrong with the lad.

it took a long time to get that fight to happen between Tyson and Evander.... I think it was 1991 or 2 and they didn't fight until 96... which before Tysons troubles with Rape and his Ex Wife... he cut his hand at one time to Canx the match or move it back.. I think it was moved back 3 times before all of Tysons troubles pushed it back to 96.... a fight earlier would have been Great!!!!! Holyfield went on and fought Forman which Won me some Premo Cigars and a few bucks!!! Forman told the Announcers after the fight in all his Years of Boxing... He had never been hit as hard as he was that night with Evander....
That Statement alone was something to hear... here was a Man who went Toe to Toe with Muhammad Ali for 8 rounds in the Rumble in the Jungle and even Ali in his Prime didn't hit as solid as Evander did...

Hog

LLT, that is really cool. Was it in person or closed circuit? In those days it usually wasnt on regular TV. It was on the radio or like I said closed circuit. Thats before PPV was even dreamed of.

Mag

Hog, this is one of the coolest threads Ive participated in. What memories!

You are right about Tysons lame delays to fight Evander.

The Holyfield/Foreman fight was a great one too!

Do you remember the Michael Dokes vs Holyfield fight! thats one for the guy that loves non stop punching! Holyfield in this fight proved he was a true heavyweight. Dokes outweighed Holyfield by quite at bit. Holyfield took unbeliveable punches from the heavy handed Dokes, wore him down and KO'd Dokes.

Mag

Yes I do remember that one... that was during the time Evander was still coming up in the ranks as a heavyweight contender... dokes yes had about 30-40 pounds on him... man I wish I could find these fights ... I once rented the 84 olympic boxing fights on vhs or maybe it was the Beta tapes... I remember at that time we had both type players LoL... anyways my first vcr wouldn't record or I would have kept that one!!!! I have not found it since in rentel stores....
I did recently see the Ali movie and it brought back memories big time!!! My Dad used to Drink Allot... he was Abusive to my Mom and to us kids... he always told us boy's that if we ever lost a fight he would Kick our A$$'s himself... I was the Youngest of the 3 Boy's out of 6...I seen him beat my brothers and I always did my best to stear clear of him... then it became a game with my brothers and there friends to Instigate fights for me... there was a Family who lived up the Block.. they were Philipino... and Philip was my age... we used to play stick ball... and about every week Philip and I were beating the crap out of each other... Dad never found out about this but from my Bruises and stuff I always feared he knew... Only one time it was in my front yard we were going at it... and Phil had the best of me this time... well Dad pulled up... he sent philip packing and stomped my A$$ and grounded me for a month... it was Ok though to go out to Peoria Square Gardens and pay 10 bucks and enter me into the amiture golden glove fights... and when I lost... he would do the same... I always hated him for that... But to look back on it Now... it was my Dad's way of trying to raise us boy's up to face anything in our Lives...Phil Lives in California and He came back to visit in 1990 that was the last time I seen him... Boxing and losing money on the Cubs was a way of growing up in my world... LoL
Jack Dempsy... if not mentioned before was also a Great!!!
LL didn't marciano lose to Joe Louis? and that ended his carrier? not for sure??
Hog

Hog

Marciano is the only undefeated heavyweight champion in history, that I know of.

Mag

Marciano won the title fron Jersey Joe Walcot, in 13 rnds. They had a rematch that went only 1 round.

Mag

Schmeling, beat the undefeated Louis. Louis later beat Schmeling in a rematch.

Mag

The debate comparing fighters from different eras has raged on for a long, long time ... what if we COULD somehow see Dempsey, Louis, Wolcott, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Tyson all in their prime at the same time ... that'd be one hell of a series of matchups is all I can say.

Since we can't actually see it ... we'll just have to debate it to death ...

Rickamaven ...

If by some chance you DO find a video of that fight, I'll come to SoCal to watch it with you and will even bring the cigars ... that was the first boxing match in my memory ... sat with my dad (who was a huge boxing fan) and listened to it on the radio, looking the whole time at the #'s on the tuner dial as if I thought I might actuall see some of the action there ... how great would it be to actually see it now after all these years? ...

Thanks Mag... I couldn't remember... Grandpa and my Dad were always discussing/debating the Boxing when I was growing up LoL...

and SteveS that would be a Pay Per View that would pay off the War Debt and put a hell of a dent on the Deficit in this country!!!


ahh the Memories!!!

Hog