Thanks Ken, from what I've heard. The Punch london's are mild, so no good for me to buy several at one time, but worth a try if traded. Those mini's are out, too small plus I've had the Hoyo mini's, very harsh.
ERDM Cafe Noir, what size? May be interested in trying by way of trade.
The Idea is for me to try a few different brands in the 38+ ring gage size so I have a referrence point in which to buy.
Off to coach soccer. Will check the offers when I get back, 11:00 Eastern