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Help me understand.
dpnewell Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Dave,
A few here did come back with honest answers. I may not understand their rational, but I do believe that they are sincere, and believe they where doing the right thing for this nation. Of course some others used the typical liberal tactic of deflect, discredit, and name calling. Of course when that fails to subdue, they resort to the old standard of blaming Bush.

My observation is that many (not all, but many) liberals react on feelings. I've asked dozens of friends and colleagues why they voted for the President, and most told me that it just felt like the right thing to do. That's not a criticism, but an observation. I'm starting to believe that liberals and conservatives are just wired differently. Probably the reason we each think the other are idiots.
dpnewell Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Speaking of "disflect, discredit and name calling", Victor weights in. Never fails to disappoint.
leftyposthole Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
Victor, I won't pretend to know you, I have seen some of your posts here. The fact that you call my question stupid is curious. The fact that no one seems to want to articulate their side even more so. No legitimate answers should not have been an insult. Just a statement of fact to this point. I do find it interesting those on the left will not even entertain the thought that socialism is the direction this administration is taking us. This thread along with a couple others have been ongoing for several days and yet the folks on the left have yet to state why in their heart they think the way they do. The fact that you state my question is meaningless without actually responding to my question allows one to conclude a few things. That you do not know why you think the way you do or you cannot articulate it or you just hate us and that is sufficiant enough. I really did not think it would be this difficult to get a serious answer.
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dpnewell wrote:
Speaking of "disflect, discredit and name calling", Victor weights in. Never fails to disappoint.


Did you bother reading my statement?
The question was leading, not an honest question at all. To couch that in the rhetoric of "no insults" and then follow up with insults either is stupid, or is assuming the audience is stupid. I went with the former.
fishinguitarman Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
Obummer sux donkey balls....
ZRX1200 Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Well you did chime in.......just saying.




I think a major difference is the moral standing one has on spending someone elses money taken at the end of a gun. Plenty of contrarian views in both parties (lefties being pro abortion and anti death penalty) vs (righties being anti-abortion but mostly pro death penalty).


Free association has all but disappeared and took property rights with it.

victor809 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
leftyposthole wrote:
Victor, I won't pretend to know you, I have seen some of your posts here. The fact that you call my question stupid is curious.


How is that curious? If I asked you "what was your rationale for killing my grandmother?" What would your answer be? You didn't ask an honest question, yet you want an honest answer.

Here's your honest answer:
No one at all who voted in the election has changed the form of our Republic in any way shape or form

Since no one did that, no one can answer your question.

Quote:

I do find it interesting those on the left will not even entertain the thought that socialism is the direction this administration is taking us. This thread along with a couple others have been ongoing for several days and yet the folks on the left have yet to state why in their heart they think the way they do.

Socialism is an economic policy not a form of government and has nothing to do with your question.

Quote:

The fact that you state my question is meaningless without actually responding to my question allows one to conclude a few things. That you do not know why you think the way you do or you cannot articulate it or you just hate us and that is sufficiant enough. I really did not think it would be this difficult to get a serious answer.

....or it could be that your question was stupid and hyperbolic.
Lets see, you posed a question that first mistook an economic policy for a form of government, and then accused everyone who voted in a legitimate government election for trying to support an overthrow to a type of government which doesn't exist.... hyperbole, check... stupid, check.



victor809 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Even cuter is that you waited an ENTIRE HOUR for an answer before deciding "guess there's no legitimate answers!"

And then you waited a total of THREE WHOLE HOURS (on a weekend) before chiming in with "I'm almost certain that none of them are celebrating veterans day"

Yeah... you were definitely trying to get an honest answer....
jackconrad Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
rfenst wrote:
WGAF about some scholarship you had a chance for, but never got? What the hell does whether I will ever "evolve and get anywhere" (whatever that means) have anything to do with any of this? Don't answer. Just fix your own demons instead of those you project on me, loser.

YOU THINK EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT YOU ??


CARLY SIMON HAD A SONG ABOUT THAT.

Chill brudder your a good guy and we know it
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Libs hate veterans
HockeyDad Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
teedubbya wrote:
Libs hate veterans



Conservatives like veterans. That is why they make so many.
teedubbya Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
True. True.
leftyposthole Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
You certainly like to make lots of assumptions, the timing of my posts are irrelavant, some of us do have other things to do. Socialism or communism are a form of government ie Soviet Union, Cuba etc. Killing your grandmother has nothing at all to do with this post. Man it is hard to get a straight answer from these guys. Its obvious that you feel superior intellectually, which again is irrelevant. Just humor me and try and answer the questions. I am truly curious. How you voted was not in the original question again that does not matter to me. By the way your deflections are very telling.
HockeyDad Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
Maybe his grandmother had it coming.
teedubbya Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That damn black pot
HockeyDad Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
teedubbya wrote:
That damn black pot


racist
ZRX1200 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
I do love it when Victor has a bee in his bonnet (or skirt).......


teedubbya Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just trying to fit on.
HockeyDad Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
ZRX1200 wrote:
I do love it when Victor has a bee in his bonnet (or skirt).......





I blame his grandmother.
SMGBobbyScott Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2012
Posts: 3,328
victor809 wrote:
Even cuter is that you waited an ENTIRE HOUR for an answer before deciding "guess there's no legitimate answers!"

And then you waited a total of THREE WHOLE HOURS (on a weekend) before chiming in with "I'm almost certain that none of them are celebrating veterans day"

Yeah... you were definitely trying to get an honest answer....


Lefty, he has made some VERY valid points here. I personally wouldn't have gone with the personal name calling, BUT you question was riddled with false assumptions, errors, and then you didn't give people time to respond before pronouncing the issue closed.

Last I checked, we were a constitutional republic with three functioning (one barely) branches of government. We just decided to join the rest of the civilized world and provide our citizens healthcare on a nearly global basis (most of them are constitutional democracies too). We have a HUGE debt because for the first time in our history we chose NOT to raise revenue (in fact we cut taxes) during a time of war...the longest and most expensive war in our history.

Finally, to the question of redistribution of wealth. Once you have taxes in place, they will always be too high...pure and simple. Taxes are by definition a redistribution of wealth UNLESS they are done as fees (many are, most aren't). Therefore the issue isn't whether or not redistribution is occurring, but how much is enough...here is the rub...there is no right answer because it will always be TOO HIGH. However, the government should (eventually) pay its bills and should a have a REAL plan to do so...

The real issue here is that conservatives seem to have and endless tolerance for military spending and economic development (I.e. corporate welfare) while liberals have an endless tolerance for social programs (I.e. giveaway programs). The only problem is that the republicans won't acknowledge that the military does need all that money anymore now that the war is over and the democrats won't acknowledge that there is no "peace dividend".
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Did she hate veterans?



Or just God?




I bet she liked a good mustache just like Victor.
victor809 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
leftyposthole wrote:
You certainly like to make lots of assumptions, the timing of my posts are irrelavant, some of us do have other things to do. Socialism or communism are a form of government ie Soviet Union, Cuba etc. Killing your grandmother has nothing at all to do with this post. Man it is hard to get a straight answer from these guys. Its obvious that you feel superior intellectually, which again is irrelevant. Just humor me and try and answer the questions. I am truly curious. How you voted was not in the original question again that does not matter to me. By the way your deflections are very telling.


Communism, loosely interpreted, could be a form of government. Socialism is an economic policy. Cuba is a socialist Republic (as in they elect their leaders, kind of). The socialist refers to their economic structure.

Your question (obviously trolling) started out with a unproven premise: "Those who voted democrat are trying to overthrow our government from the existing Republic". This is the equivalent to me asking you WHY you killed my grandmother before bothering to ask whether you actually did kill my grandmother. If you were to answer the question, you would have to 1 - have killed my grandmother, and 2 - admit to it.

Our government, and even our economic policy is largely unchanged and actually bears little to no resemblance to the fake governments you tried to imply people voted to install. Therefore the first premise of your question is wrong. To answer the question at all would require first 1 - that our government (or economic policy, to throw you a bone) have changed and 2 - that the voters actually caused it.
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:


I bet she liked a good mustache just like Victor.


You're kinda obsessed with my sexy face. It's a little disturbing...
ZRX1200 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
I said your mustache is was good.


Your face not so much. But I'm sure your dead grandma loved it.


BTW I will be using the Chewbacca defense for my client Lefty.
victor809 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If you actually were "honest" and wanted an answer, your questions would be specific.

You wouldn't ask "Why does the left think the way they do?"

You would say:
"I'm curious why an individual is pro-choice" or
"I'm curious why an individual supports obamacare" or
"I'm curious why a person supports same sex marriages" or
"I'm curious why a person supports the concept of welfare" or
"I'd like to know why a person supports gun control" the list goes on and on...

You asked a non-specific, loaded question, and waited no time before declaring victory . So I'll assume you didn't want an honest answer.
victor809 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
I said your mustache is was good.


Your face not so much. But I'm sure your dead grandma loved it.


BTW I will be using the Chewbacca defense for my client Lefty.


Meh... the mustache eclipsed too much of my beauty. It had to go. :)
ZRX1200 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Or maybe he was simply askibg in a broader sense and people who are inclined to conflict were offended?

CW answered pretty concisely and matter of fact


Keep up the good outrage though the flush cheeks above the mustache are nice.
victor809 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
Or maybe he was simply askibg in a broader sense and people who are inclined to conflict were offended?

CW answered pretty concisely and matter of fact


Keep up the good outrage though the flush cheeks above the mustache are nice.


CW actually ignored the question. He's nicer than I am.

"Since this form of governmant has never worked anyplace else why do you think it will work here?" is a direct reference to Communism.

What parts of CWs answers suggest he supports communism?
victor809 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If I may, I'd like to translate lefty's question:
"Those of you on the left, I'm curious why you support communism, since it's never worked anywhere else before?"

That's the equivalent to me asking:
"Those of you on the right, I'm curious why you support the idea of a Theocracy, since it's never worked anywhere else before?"
DrafterX Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I suppose the question was a little broad... I'm sure the libs voted for different reasons and all... noone can answer for all libs... we should send Howard Stern back out onto the streets and ask them why they voted for Obama... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
I don't think that was actually part of the question, merely opinion stated within the question.


Chewbacca is a wookie.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
leftyposthole wrote:
Would love to hear from the left, without name calling, or cute snide put downs, valid, legitimate reasons why you think the way you do? Since this form of governmant has never worked anyplace else why do you think it will work here?

Again, please, legitimate straight forward answers.




Legitimate answers not required. They STILL club baby seals.
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Legitimate answers not required. They STILL club baby seals.


Those Bassards..!! Mad
DrMaddVibe Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
DrafterX wrote:
Those Bassards..!! Mad



With bats, they submit them into submission.
leftyposthole Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
I did not get specific in the question because I was looking for a more philosphical responce. I am more interested in the philosophy behind your thinking and how you think that direction will make life better for everyone. No I have not declared victory, again trying to elicit a responce. Man this like pulling teeth
victor809 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
leftyposthole wrote:
Man this like pulling teeth


you're telling me.
I pointed out multiple ways your initial question was loaded and making ridiculous presuppositions, and yet you haven't tried rephrasing your question into something that is answerable.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
leftyposthole wrote:
I did not get specific in the question because I was looking for a more philosphical responce. I am more interested in the philosophy behind your thinking and how you think that direction will make life better for everyone. No I have not declared victory, again trying to elicit a responce. Man this like pulling teeth


That is why I said they club baby seals. I doesn't make sense but they do it anyways.

Good luck with your search. May you get the answer you deserve. I don't have the one you seek...I don't think you're going to get the logical "answer" you seek.

I was at a dinner party yesterday with the Kenyan King's devoted supporters. They had to go there with me and my retort was to stand up with wine glass in hand and state..."May "someone" pay for all you've asked for". They looked down when I said that. They asked whom I voted for. I told them that I didn't get my Hope & Change in the 1st administration. There was a loooong uncomfortable silence after that!

Sorry. I can't give yo what you seek. Maybe Peggy Josephs can.
victor809 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
leftyposthole wrote:
I guess that confirmed my suspicions, there are no legitimate answers....................


Yeah...
You didn't bother declaring victory after 1 hour at all....
Come on, be honest.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
victor809 wrote:
Yeah...
You didn't bother declaring victory after 1 hour at all....
Come on, be honest.



Victory?


When you rack up 4+ TRILLION in debt and are willing to throw common sense to the 4 winds that you will get better results with this loser...please...there are no winners in the default of the American Way. There's no "free lunch" suckers.

PS: I'm under the Cone of Protection...YOU? You're on your own!
leftyposthole Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 05-09-2011
Posts: 3,376
OK I give up you wear me out, If you dance long enough you get tired
DrafterX Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Victor prolly didn't even vote... he just gets off on playing Batman... Mellow
SMGBobbyScott Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2012
Posts: 3,328
I guess a moderate response doesn't warrant consideration? They did, after all, decide the election...
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Did you let him in your bat cave ?
Homebrew Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
SMGBobbyScott wrote:
I guess a moderate response doesn't warrant consideration? They did, after all, decide the election...


Yeah, you will learn, if your politics are a bit to the left of Attila the Hun, you are considered a Liberal around here. I was a moderate Republican, until they ran me out of the party. I am now a Libertarian, though some of my views are a bit to the left, of the Libertarian platform.


Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
SMGBobbyScott Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2012
Posts: 3,328
Homebrew wrote:
Yeah, you will learn, if your politics are a bit to the left of Attila the Hun, you are considered a Liberal around here. I was a moderate Republican, until they ran me out of the party. I am now a Libertarian, though some of my views are a bit to the left, of the Libertarian platform.


Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)


Not just around here, there seems to be a litmus test of conservatism within the entire GOP/Tea Party. If you don't genuflect at the mention of tax cuts, banning abortions, or restricting marriage to just between a man and a woman they look at you funny. I'm trying to figure out if we've reached the height of the McCarthyism period of the US or if we've just dodged a headlong a trip into Fascism. Either way, this thought police crap gives me the creeps...

Oh and for those who want to label me a "liberal"...I'm a gun carrying redneck of the "pry it from my cold dead hands" variety. I worked for the Santorum campaign during the primaries and have worked for other GOP candidates in the past. I was raised Southern Baptist, my father was a minister and I still attend (at least weekly) an evangelical church. So that puts me firmly in the social conservative branch of the GOP. I also worked in DC during the first Bush Administration...now those credentials were impressive but I won't bore you with those details...blah, blah, blah...
teedubbya Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
frankj1 Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
DrMaddVibe wrote:
That is why I said they club baby seals. I doesn't make sense but they do it anyways.

Good luck with your search. May you get the answer you deserve. I don't have the one you seek...I don't think you're going to get the logical "answer" you seek.

I was at a dinner party yesterday with the Kenyan King's devoted supporters. They had to go there with me and my retort was to stand up with wine glass in hand and state..."May "someone" pay for all you've asked for". They looked down when I said that. They asked whom I voted for. I told them that I didn't get my Hope & Change in the 1st administration. There was a loooong uncomfortable silence after that!

Sorry. I can't give yo what you seek. Maybe Peggy Josephs can.

you voted for Obama 4 years ago? And Mittens this time? WTF? Why were we subjected to all of the RP crap when you never even vote for him?
snowwolf777 Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 06-03-2000
Posts: 4,082
Homebrew wrote:
Here is Therefore, they should make up the tax burden, that was formerly paid, by the middle class.my take on the fair share, of the rich.
I believe the rich should pay much higher taxes, than they do today, and here is the rational for this belief. For many years, the majority of taxes, collectedin the US, were paid by the middle class. Not neccessarily as a percentage of their income, but as a percentage of the gross reciepts of the IRS. This has gradually decreased, due to outsourcing the jobs, of the middle class. During the same period, the income of the surviving middle class, has stagnated, while the income of the top 1%, has exploded. Many of the 1% have had a massive increase in wealth due to the outsourcing of the jobs, of the middle class. I will have to do some research, and crunch some numbers, to come up with an actual percentage that they should be taxed, to make up the difference, but I imagine, that the percentage, would make them scream bloody murder.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
P.S. I would go into greater detail, but I am typing this using a slow as hell wifi, and I hate this keyboard.



It ain't working and it never has (your wi-fi, I mean).

CBO tells us year-in and year-out that the so-called "rich" pay the majority of the tax burden in this country, no matter how you slice it. And the bottom 40 percent of income earners not only pay nothing, but get extra money back they didn't pay in the form of "earned income credit".

Meanwhile, those "rich people" everyone wants to ass-ram a little harder are also the ones creating jobs. So cram it to the rich people. Make 'em suffer. And we'll all clap. Hooray! F-the rich guys! I'm sure they won't respond with anything like spending less, investing less, shipping more jobs overseas, closing businesses and laying off people. We're one week past the election and I've already sat in on two meetings where our corporation is discussing how we're going to handle Obamacare, increased taxes, and upcoming federal regulations. I can tell you the discussions sure as hell weren't about adding faclities, buying more equipment and creating jobs.



SMGBobbyScott Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2012
Posts: 3,328
There are more miilionaires and billionaires in the US than at any time in recorded history while unemployment has been at record levels and still they hoard their money. I,m not buying the "job creator" argument...create a job, get a freaking tax break...otherwise quit yer bellyaching!
jetblasted Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Of every 5 jobs that were created last year, 4 went to immigrants & 1 went to a natural born US citizen.
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