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ZRX1200 Offline
#101 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 12:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Read a public school textbook Drafter, revisionism is alive and well.
DrafterX Offline
#102 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 12:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I blame the Russians.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#103 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
My gramps was born in the late 1800s. Before he passed away he have me one of his old history books. Funny how his history was different than mine and my kids history is different yet.
DrafterX Offline
#104 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Funny..?? There should be outrage.... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#105 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Funny..?? There should be outrage.... Mellow


Not all revisions are wrong. Some old texts/encyclopedias had some seriously wrong info in them...
DrafterX Offline
#106 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
of course they did... Not talking Not talking
Buckwheat Offline
#107 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
teedubbya wrote:
My gramps was born in the late 1800s. Before he passed away he have me one of his old history books. Funny how his history was different than mine and my kids history is different yet.


The winners write (and re-write) the history. fog
teedubbya Offline
#108 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'll have to dig it out. Interesting stuff.
DrafterX Offline
#109 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I'm curious...... Mellow


I've got a couple sets of old encyclopedias... we should pick an event and compare info... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#110 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
Buckwheat wrote:
The winners write (and re-write) the history. fog


And smarmy malcontent college professors with an ax to grind.
DrafterX Offline
#111 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
ya.... those bassards...!! Mad
tailgater Offline
#112 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 4:32 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Not all revisions are wrong. Some old texts/encyclopedias had some seriously wrong info in them...


Imagine what they'll say in a couple hundred years when they read about Global Warming!
tailgater Offline
#113 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
My gramps was born in the late 1800s. Before he passed away he have me one of his old history books. Funny how his history was different than mine and my kids history is different yet.


Yeah.
Because now that we know Columbus was a dink, it makes his whole discovery thingy less meaningful.
victor809 Offline
#114 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 6:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Imagine what they'll say in a couple hundred years when they read about Global Warming!



You say that like they won't be underwater...
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#115 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 10:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
it's time for me to move on to:


where ever they's a fight so hungry people can eat, i'll be there. casy knowed why,

i'll be there. whenever they's a cop beatin up a guy, i'll be there. if casey knowed,

why, i'll be there. in the way guys yell when they are mad an, i'll be there. in the way

kids laugh when they are hungry n they know supers ready. an when our folks eat the

stuff they raise, an, live in the houses they build, why, i'll be there.

henry fonda, the grapes of wrath, 1940
jackconrad Offline
#116 Posted: Wed, May 28 2014, 10:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Gee i didn't know he was a screenwriter too,,..
cacman Offline
#117 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:45 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
henry fonda, the grapes of wrath, 1940

Henry Fonda???? Really??? You can't do better than mistakenly giving credit to a Hollywood actor?

The Grapes of Wrath is an American realist novel written by John Steinbeck and published in 1939. The book won the National Book Award and Pulitzer Prize for fiction, and it was cited prominently when Steinbeck won the Nobel Prize in 1962.
ZRX1200 Offline
#118 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:51 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Quiet, Rick is getting in on rewritting history!
DrafterX Offline
#119 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 7:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Laugh
Gene363 Offline
#120 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 9:13 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
cacman wrote:
Henry Fonda???? Really??? You can't do better than mistakenly giving credit to a Hollywood actor?

The Grapes of Wrath is an American realist novel written by John Steinbeck and published in 1939. The book won the National Book Award and Pulitzer Prize for fiction, and it was cited prominently when Steinbeck won the Nobel Prize in 1962.


Oh yeah, before the Nobel was turned into a PC participation trophy. horse horse horse
DrafterX Offline
#121 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 9:18 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I heard the First lady was getting one this year for saving the fat kids.... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#122 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 9:26 AM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
DrafterX wrote:
I heard the First lady was getting one this year for saving the fat kids.... Mellow


Yes, they will be serving fra gras and tater tots at the awards dinner.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#123 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 10:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
victor809 wrote:
You say that like they won't be underwater...



Damn subprime mortgages!!!
DrafterX Offline
#124 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
the underwater theory again..??? d'oh!

throw an ice cube in a glass of water and watch it melt Victor... is your glass overflowing now..??? Huh
victor809 Offline
#125 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
Henry Fonda???? Really??? You can't do better than mistakenly giving credit to a Hollywood actor?

The Grapes of Wrath is an American realist novel written by John Steinbeck and published in 1939. The book won the National Book Award and Pulitzer Prize for fiction, and it was cited prominently when Steinbeck won the Nobel Prize in 1962.


Um, I believe he is quoting the movie, Grapes of Wrath, as acted by actor Henry Fonda. Looks like the quote itself is very similar between the book and the movie, but the book doesn't appear to have the "if casey knowed why" phrase. Not sure why you would say he's mistaken...
DrafterX Offline
#126 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 11:11 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Axl wrote that book man.... Not talking
victor809 Offline
#127 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
the underwater theory again..??? d'oh!

throw an ice cube in a glass of water and watch it melt Victor... is your glass overflowing now..??? Huh



Drafter. You realize that's just wrong, right? While the whole "global warming" vs "global cooling" vs "extreme climate change" thing is fun to poke at, IF there were significant enough temp increase, you would see a rise in water levels. "But Victor! the guy on the interwebs asked me about ice cubes and water glasses and it coincides with my current beliefs so I like him!"

Two problems with your "ice cube in a glass of water" theory.
1 - A lot of our ice ISN'T in the ocean. It's on land, next to the ocean (Antarctica). It melts and runs in...that adds mass. that's like taking an ice cube, melting it, and pouring the water into your glass. Will the water level rise?

2 - Saltwater vs Freshwater. When water freezes it excludes the salts in its crystalline structure. So what you have is fresh water ice, floating in saltwater. However, saltwater is MORE DENSE than fresh water (this is why you float better in saltwater)... and ICE floats better in saltwater. In fact, this causes it to displace less water than in fresh water. So when it melts, and the fresh water mixes with the saltwater, it increases the volume.
DrafterX Offline
#128 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
never gonna happen anyway... Not talking
victor809 Offline
#129 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
never gonna happen anyway... Not talking


But you concede that if the planet's temperature did in fact rise enough to melt the water currently in ice form, we will see rising sea levels?

To say that it is "never gonna happen" is an awfully bold statement. In fact it's one of those statements which is most likely to eventually be proven wrong. Not because of any special climate science or anything... but simply because given enough time (and "never" spans all of time), just about all circumstances will rear their ugly head.
DrafterX Offline
#130 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
victor809 wrote:
But you concede that if the planet's temperature did in fact rise enough to melt the water currently in ice form, we will see rising sea levels?



Not talking Not talking
victor809 Offline
#131 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Not talking Not talking


Is that a yes or a no?

Let me rephrase that...
Is that a "yes victor, I agree with the most basic concepts of physical chemistry" or a "no victor, I don't believe in the most basic concepts of physical chemistry"?
DrafterX Offline
#132 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
that's a no, never gonna happen.... Not talking Not talking
victor809 Offline
#133 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
that's a no, never gonna happen.... Not talking Not talking


That wasn't my question.
I asked (and you even quoted it):

"But you concede that if the planet's temperature did in fact rise enough to melt the water currently in ice form, we will see rising sea levels?"

When you say "no, never gonna happen" are you referring to the temperature shift or the basic chemistry which would cause the water levels to rise?
DrafterX Offline
#134 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
No to a temperature shift that would melt the ice caps.... Mellow




Think
I wonder where God got all the water when he flooded da earth.... Think
victor809 Offline
#135 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
No to a temperature shift that would melt the ice caps.... Mellow



But that wasn't the question. I stated:
"But you concede that if the planet's temperature did in fact rise enough to melt the water currently in ice form, we will see rising sea levels?"

So, you are conceding that IF the temperature rose enough in the poles to melt the ice caps, we would see rising sea levels?
DrafterX Offline
#136 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Not talking Not talking
victor809 Offline
#137 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Not talking Not talking


And now, what is this about?

You realize when you don't use actual words, it makes it feel like I'm arguing with a 2nd grader, right?
DrafterX Offline
#138 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I will concede that IF the temperature rose enough in the poles to melt the ice caps, we would not see a significant rise sea levels.... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#139 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
DrafterX wrote:
I will concede that IF the temperature rose enough in the poles to melt the ice caps, we would not see a significant rise sea levels.... Mellow


What, the world isn't flat and gravity isn't universal?
victor809 Offline
#140 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I will concede that IF the temperature rose enough in the poles to melt the ice caps, we would not see a significant rise sea levels.... Mellow


Define significant.
DrafterX Offline
#141 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I don't see Florida underwater or anything close to that.. as the ice is melting the water is also evaporating and will redistribute itself over land... Mellow
Gene363 Offline
#142 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:33 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
DrafterX wrote:
I don't see Florida underwater or anything close to that.. as the ice is melting the water is also evaporating and will redistribute itself over land... Mellow


Yup, monster tornadoes, record snowfall and super-storms don't run on dry ice.
HockeyDad Offline
#143 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
Define significant.


Studies have already been done that show that if all ice on the planet melted, sea levels would rise by 16 inches.
victor809 Offline
#144 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I don't see Florida underwater or anything close to that.. as the ice is melting the water is also evaporating and will redistribute itself over land... Mellow


... redistribute itself over land.

Huh... that's kind of what I'm talking about. You know, the ocean redistributing itself over some land.
victor809 Offline
#145 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
Studies have already been done that show that if all ice on the planet melted, sea levels would rise by 16 inches.


I don't think that's correct.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/rising-seas/if-ice-melted-map

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/question473.htm
"If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet). "
HockeyDad Offline
#146 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
... redistribute itself over land.

Huh... that's kind of what I'm talking about. You know, the ocean redistributing itself over some land.


A lot of places could use the rain. Puffins and penguins are hogging all that fresh water.
victor809 Offline
#147 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
A lot of places could use the rain. Puffins and penguins are hogging all that fresh water.


Probably hogging oil too
DrafterX Offline
#148 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
victor809 wrote:

"If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet). "



gotta throw the Bullsh^t flag on that one.... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#149 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
I don't think that's correct.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/09/rising-seas/if-ice-melted-map

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/question473.htm
"If all of the Antarctic ice melted, sea levels around the world would rise about 61 meters (200 feet). "


So one source say 216 feet. One source says 16 inches, one source says 63 meters. Who to believe!?

Besides, 5000 years is a long time away. We would have to not nuke everything or get invaded by aliens to get that far.
victor809 Offline
#150 Posted: Thu, May 29 2014, 4:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
gotta throw the Bullsh^t flag on that one.... Mellow


Why?
Just because you don't like it? You can't throw a BS flag randomly. Give a reason.
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