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South Carolina to drop Confederate Flag
banderl Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Brewha wrote:
Those were nazis.



I hate Illinois Nazis.
jetblasted Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
victor809 wrote:
Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but it sounded to me when you said

you were trying to imply this was a good thing. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps you were trying to say "The KKK is bad, so bad that when they were formed they were formed to lynch a guy under questionable evidence of guilt"


You're wrong.

I was just stating that the rebirth of the klan 100 years ago was about a jewish guy, not a black guy as so commonly thought of . . .

End of story.

Period.
delta1 Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
Someone asked for the Cliffs Note version of the Stephens speech that laid the groundwork for the Confederacy, which DMV posted in its entirety earlier here. Here are the key sentences that define the Confederate cause:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth….so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails….They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal." -- Alexander H. Stephens

At their core, many supporters of the Confederate flag believe this, and use the flag as a symbol of their belief. It is more than a symbolic finger at the black race, (and by extension, all non-white minorities) and is understood as such. For a nation that states as a founding principle "all men are created equal" the flag is an affront. Surely freedom of speech, another founding principle, allows us to tolerate such hateful expression. But we should be defined by our loftiest ideals and can only move forward by shunning symbols of hate, at least in public places. Incrementally, after the state stops displaying this symbol, perhaps fewer private persons will do so.

To me, the saddest and most alarming fact in this event is the youthfulness of Roof.
jetblasted Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
victor, how the **** do you interpet what I said as a good thing?

That, Sir, is twisted thinking . . .
victor809 Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jetblasted wrote:
victor, how the **** do you interpet what I said as a good thing?

That, Sir, is twisted thinking . . .


Assumed you were applauding vigilante justice (kind of common on this board). If I was incorrect, my bad. :)
Gene363 Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I don't think so, but maybe it is a sign of the rapture.



No, trash will still be trash but it will be harder to spot them in a crowd without that symbol on a belt buckle, hat, tshirt or tattoo.

Will raciest murdered be deterred or completely evaporate?


Not following you on this one so I'm going to just vote "Present" on the matter.

By your logic getting rid of all confederate battle flags will magically cause all the raciest azzholes to become peace loving hippies or possibly just disappear, both equally likely to happen, or not.


I think we have too many and it STILL hasn't done a damn thing to restore the issue of racism and hatred in this nation. All one has to do is tour Gettysburg or walk around with a metal detector in Virginia. We're MORE divided now than we we were then but it's got more to do with equality than owning a slave. I've always held a disdain towards that flag. Not for the racist element it's steeped in but for the notion that there were those that actually wanted this nation to be divided. A nation torn apart so they could be an even smaller entity. An entity so small that it would've been devoured by another nation. No, it's a symbol that needs to go. Just look at all the stupidity that clings to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM45sqkth_0



We are more divided because people like yourself have a self righteous bent to eras history. Following your logic we should tear down the Holocaust museum because it reminds people of the Hitler and Nazis.
jetblasted Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
What would Ronnie Van Zant do ?

Mellow
cacman Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
DrMaddVibe wrote:
No, trash will still be trash but it will be harder to spot them in a crowd without that symbol on a belt buckle, hat, tshirt or tattoo.

Yep… taking down the flag will be followed by a law making it illegal to possess anything with the flag on it, and force everyone to remove any tattoo's deemed racist.

Film at 11 in la-la land.
Brewha Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
jetblasted wrote:
What would Ronnie Van Zant do ?

Mellow

Not a GD thing. 'Cause there's endless birds you can not Chana-aaaa-aaang'.

What in the sphincter of hell does that mean anyway?
cacman Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
If someone off their rocker creates an anti-LGBT video rant while waving a Teletubby in the air and then commits a heinous crime at a gay bar, will all Teletubbies merchandise and their re-runs become taboo???
jetblasted Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
LoL ... Dude, take a deep breath. It was a joke.

Skynyrd is well known for their use of the flag.

jetblasted Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
It's interesting to note that Amazon isn't selling any more CSA flags, but they still have Nazi memorabilia for sale.

Go figure. Weird.

Mattie B Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Victor do you disagree with vigilante justice?
victor809 Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Mattie B wrote:
Victor do you disagree with vigilante justice?


I have no problem with someone getting their azz beaten when they are caught doing something in the moment.

I'm not a fan of people deciding at a later time who they think might be guilty and hanging them
Brewha Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Mattie B wrote:
Victor do you disagree with vigilante justice?

You know it is against the law right?
Mattie B Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I'm well aware
tailgater Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I somehow doubt you have many left. Maybe you should start buying brown ones in the first place.

Racist.
Brewha Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Mattie B wrote:
I'm well aware

So, do you disagree with vigilante justice?
tailgater Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Banning a flag is a false sense of security.
When the bleeding hearts wake up tomorrow and realize that the racist vermin still exist, who they gonna blame next?
Wake up people.


Besides, the KKK once gave me directions when I was lost. So they can't be ALL bad...

Gene363 Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
jetblasted wrote:
It's interesting to note that Amazon isn't selling any more CSA flags, but they still have Nazi memorabilia for sale.

Go figure. Weird.



Don't forget the Che Guevara, Mao and USSR crap.

They are not very through, just search amazon for, "rebel pride"
tailgater Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
So, do you disagree with vigilante justice?


That's too broad of a question.

If it's vigilante aimed at the correct person, then I admit that it does have its place.
You hurt my family I ain't waiting for the cops. I'm thinking "swing away, Merrill"

But as a general rule, vigilantism tends to err on the side of who they hate, rather than who did the crime.
Brewha Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tailgater wrote:
Banning a flag is a false sense of security.
When the bleeding hearts wake up tomorrow and realize that the racist vermin still exist, who they gonna blame next?
Wake up people.


Besides, the KKK once gave me directions when I was lost. So they can't be ALL bad...


Well nothing is ALL bad.
Except that lunch I had at the Drunken Donkey last week.....
tailgater Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
Well nothing is ALL bad.
Except that lunch I had at the Drunken Donkey last week.....


That wasn't lunch.

Hee Haww!
Brewha Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tailgater wrote:
That's too broad of a question.

If it's vigilante aimed at the correct person, then I admit that it does have its place.
You hurt my family I ain't waiting for the cops. I'm thinking "swing away, Merrill"

But as a general rule, vigilantism tends to err on the side of who they hate, rather than who did the crime.

Actually I was figuring Mattie to tell me that doing the "right thing" is more important than the law.

Being a hieratic, I enjoy seeing others admit to it.
Brewha Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
tailgater wrote:
That wasn't lunch.

Hee Haww!

Tell me....
DrMaddVibe Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,444
Gene363 wrote:
We are more divided because people like yourself have a self righteous bent to eras history. Following your logic we should tear down the Holocaust museum because it reminds people of the Hitler and Nazis.


I don't understand how you equate what I said to erasing history. There's no bending anything.

We have plenty of battlefields...cemeteries. ..museums to go visit where anyone can get their rebel yell on at.
victor809 Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:


Besides, the KKK once gave me directions when I was lost. So they can't be ALL bad...



... take a left at that thar jew we killed the other day... then go past four burnin' crosses and turn right. If you see our lynchin' tree, well, then you've gone a lil' too far and need to mosey back to the fourth burnin' cross....
Brewha Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
....there's an old rugged cross.


Burnin' on the lawn.....
Mattie B Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Victor brought up vigilante justice. I know he has to approve some forms of it, since he chased a homeless guy.


That was the reason for my question.
Brewha Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
Yes well,,,,,

And then there is Victor.....
Gene363 Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I don't understand how you equate what I said to erasing history. There's no bending anything.

We have plenty of battlefields...cemeteries. ..museums to go visit where anyone can get their rebel yell on at.


Not for long, flag hysteria has is causing people to call for the removal of civil war statues and memorials.
Mattie B Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I guess 8track better plan that trip to Natchez and Vicksburg pretty soon.

Oh man, what will become of Beauvoir?

Pretty soon the Sip won't have anything at all to offer
teedubbya Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Bunch a drama queens. Poor poor sip. Their conservative politicians may choose to do something. Stop them or quit your bitching. While you are at it stop the false premise of folks wanting to shut down museums. The op was manufactured.
teedubbya Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And as long as you are there Mattie the sip will always have something to offer.
Mattie B Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Ok, somebody hacked TWs account. No way he just said a kind word to me!?!


teedubbya Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol
teedubbya Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I said something. I didn't say what.

You know I love ya brutha
Mattie B Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
I know you do
Gene363 Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,822
teedubbya wrote:
Bunch a drama queens. Poor poor sip. Their conservative politicians may choose to do something. Stop them or quit your bitching. While you are at it stop the false premise of folks wanting to shut down museums. The op was manufactured.


Not true.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/hundreds-march-on-charlestons-confederate-museum-chanting-black-lives-matter/

Quote:
CHARLESTON—Hundreds of people, most of them white, marched to Charleston’s Confederate Museum on Saturday night—chanting “black lives matter” and holding signs denouncing white supremacy and racist terror.


http://news.yahoo.com/video/leaders-over-u-call-removal-180521327.html

Quote:
Leaders All Over U.S. Call for Removal of Confederate Monuments


The names of Military bases is being questioned too:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/politics/confederate-army-bases-names/
cacman Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
As soon as EVERYONE realizes that you can not please everyone all the time, and no matter what you do something is going to piss someone else off, only then can we move on.

No matter how much you try and sanitize our American cultures, something will ALWAYS offend someone.

Fuq 'em… let the flag fly. I'm half tempted to fly one over the 4th of July weekend just in protest to all this liberal absurdity (and I've never owned a Confederate Flag before). Fly it right next to a "Don't Tread On Me" flag.
jetblasted Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Gene363 wrote:
The names of Military bases is being questioned too:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/politics/confederate-army-bases-names/


Our Generals were better than their Generals ...

Mellow
cacman Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
An interesting article by Mychal Massie. An ordained minister who spent 13 years in full-time Christian Ministry. He was founder and president of the non-profit “In His Name Ministries.” He is the former National Chairman of the conservative black think tank, Project 21-The National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives and a former member of its parent think tank, the National Center for Public Policy Research.

Excerpts follow:

The ‘Confederate Flag’ Never Called Me a N*gger: But Blacks and Liberals Have
It’s interesting that liberals and Obama-lefties have little to say when the U.S. flag is trampled and burned by anti-American anarchists and Muslims. They call it “free speech” and “freedom of expression.” But they somehow justify condemnation of the Confederate Flag as a ‘hate symbol’.

For millions, the Confederate Flag is a symbol of their love for the New South, which has risen out of the ashes of the Old South.

The homosexual flag flies wherever it is wanted without a thought pursuant to how people who oppose homosexuality may feel or what they may think about it. Muslims are now flying their flags in America but it is the Confederate Flag that is worthy of condemnation.

But now because some big pharma sick wacko punk who draped himself in the Confederate Flag was smart enough to go into a gun-free zone to carry out his hate-filled attack – pusillanimous little sissies craving brownie points have determined the Confederate Flag must be punished. The real debt of thanks for the successful attack in Charleston goes to those like Obama, Karl Rove, Eric Holder, and all of the other fools who clamor an anti-gun message. Because as every reasonable-minded person knows, had that church not been a gun free zone, the shooter would have in fact come to the right place to meet his maker.

But now craven whites seeking to kiss the dirty end of those blacks who will milk this unimaginable tragedy for all they can extort, the Confederate Flag once again comes under attack. And of course, there are the garden variety of liberal dimwits who are convinced that the Confederate Flag goes “bump in the night”.

http://mychal-massie.com/premium/the-confederate-flag-never-called-me-a-n*gger-but-blacks-and-liberals-have/
cacman Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
I have not researched and confirmed every fact, but an interesting read nonetheless.

---

Confederate History - Dispelling The Myths
History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.

MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products made from raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH - The South revered slavery.

FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT - Quite the contrary. These despicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.

MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.
cacman Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Here's just 2 online Flag companies still selling "historic" flags and are offering specials for the 4th of July. One company from PA the other from NY.

http://www.united-states-flag.com

http://www.gadsdenandculpeper.com
Brewha Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
jetblasted wrote:
Our Generals were better than their Generals ...

Mellow

Of all of them, Motors was my favorite....
DrafterX Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,555
you got a free Volt didn't you..? Mellow
Brewha Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
All I got was a refurbished one – called a Re-Volt
teedubbya Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yall crack me up.
banderl Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
jetblasted wrote:
Our Generals were better than their Generals ...

Mellow



Not better than Sherman.
Mattie B Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2005
Posts: 6,350
Sherman????


Now that's crossing the line!!!

You can remove the flag but never mention that name in the company of Southerners
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