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"Mass shootings"
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frankj1 Offline
#51 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 8:50 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
banderl wrote:
Frank, it happens to me every couple of weeks, but I'm running a crack house.

in Chicago?
I heard it was safe there.
banderl Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
It might be safe there, but I'm in the suburbs.
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 9:07 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Gary..?? Huh
banderl Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 9:09 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Herb?
99cobra2881 Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:14 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
frankj1 wrote:
Teddy, trust me, I ask this question without trying to set you up, nor will I pounce on a low number to say "AHA!"... don't forget that this lib is not trying to disarm you. I'd get a gun if I felt i needed the protection.

How many of these guys you personally know have had armed intruders in their homes? I know it happens, I know it is frightening and possibly life threatening, but I do not know anyone that has had it happen, though I do have friends who possess guns legally.

For that matter, as a point of interest and a small unscientific poll, how many here have friends/family who have experienced the horror of armed intruders? Is it way more than where I live (Boston)?

Is the issue of this disputed freedom really more related to fear of a government gone bad, or home invaders?


Frank,
Do you wear your seatbelt when you're driving or riding in a car? Even though there's a very small chance that you'll be in a wreck, it's a federal law to buckle up. It saves lives.

A gun in the hands of the average American citizen that wants nothing more than to protect his life and the lives of his family members is no different than you putting on your seat belt. Chances are you'll never need it, but when you do, you'll be damn glad that you had it.
teedubbya Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:26 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think there are more auto accidents then armed invasions but am not really sure.
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
They'll take my seatbelt when they pry my cold dead finger off my buckle... Mellow
99cobra2881 Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
teedubbya wrote:
I think there are more auto accidents then armed invasions but am not really sure.



Sure there are. My point was not the frequency of occurances but rather the thought of "God forbid anything like this ever happen" but I am going to be prepared if it does.


Like I posted on here earlier....

"The average police response time for a 911 call is seven minutes, the average 9mm has a muzzle velocity of 1000 feet per second."
frankj1 Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
99cobra2881 wrote:
Frank,
Do you wear your seatbelt when you're driving or riding in a car? Even though there's a very small chance that you'll be in a wreck, it's a federal law to buckle up. It saves lives.

A gun in the hands of the average American citizen that wants nothing more than to protect his life and the lives of his family members is no different than you putting on your seat belt. Chances are you'll never need it, but when you do, you'll be damn glad that you had it.

I get that.

Sometimes I'm not sure what is driving the desire for guns, hard to tell with written words.
gummy jones Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
DrafterX wrote:
They'll take my seatbelt when they pry my cold dead finger off my buckle... Mellow


You and your buckle

Your going to get hairy palms or go blind or something
DrafterX Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
frankj1 wrote:
I get that.

Sometimes I'm not sure what is driving the desire for guns, hard to tell with written words.



I was raised with them... they're a sport or just entertainment or a tool for hunting.. it's unfortunate they're also used for evil but a board with nail in it can be too... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Love my guns. Frequency problematic in your example though.

By the way I like the handgun vault on sale at Costco right now. May get it.
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Guns are also good investments.. they hold their value very well as long as you take care of them... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 10:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
Frequency problematic in your example though.



I knew a guy that hit another guy with a board with a nail in it once... he was an ex-felon.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#65 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I saw a guy knock a dude out with frozen hamburger.
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:08 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Cool..!! I saw a guy get hit with a shovel once... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Seen more than a few get hit with pool cues... that got old... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I guess the weirdest thing was a come-a-long to da head.. that was pretty much desperation and grabbing what ever he could find tho.. prolly not his weapon of choice.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:19 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I goy hit in the face with an aluminum baseball bat once but he said he was sorry.
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Was it Ram..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:45 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
No
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Dec 6 2015, 11:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Didn't really think so... I think Ram has wood... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#73 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 7:57 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
I hit somebody with a crowbar once.
TMCTLT Offline
#74 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 8:09 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
Teddy, trust me, I ask this question without trying to set you up, nor will I pounce on a low number to say "AHA!"... don't forget that this lib is not trying to disarm you. I'd get a gun if I felt i needed the protection.

How many of these guys you personally know have had armed intruders in their homes? I know it happens, I know it is frightening and possibly life threatening, but I do not know anyone that has had it happen, though I do have friends who possess guns legally.

For that matter, as a point of interest and a small unscientific poll, how many here have friends/family who have experienced the horror of armed intruders? Is it way more than where I live (Boston)?

Is the issue of this disputed freedom really more related to fear of a government gone bad, or home invaders?




Frank, if that's what your waiting for ( yourself or someone you Actually know to be accosted or killed ) I dunno what to say!!! The smart man does not " wait for something to happen " he / she takes steps to insure IF it does....They're already prepared. And to your last question....BOTH. No other administration before this Fool in the White House has attempted to high jack our 2nd amendment Rights, and he's not gonna stop no matter what.
He looks like such a Fool with all his anti gun rhetoric while ISIS /ISIL goes about their hate filled killing sprees
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 9:06 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
TMCTLT wrote:
Frank, if that's what your waiting for ( yourself or someone you Actually know to be accosted or killed ) I dunno what to say!!! The smart man does not " wait for something to happen " he / she takes steps to insure IF it does....They're already prepared. And to your last question....BOTH. No other administration before this Fool in the White House has attempted to high jack our 2nd amendment Rights, and he's not gonna stop no matter what.
He looks like such a Fool with all his anti gun rhetoric while ISIS /ISIL goes about their hate filled killing sprees

Paul, I really do understand people who believe in being prepared, and though I'm not sure it really works a high percentage of the time, I'm not trying to stop those that feel better/safer.

I do believe in being prepared for many things, perhaps it will take a disaster to wake me up to what gun owners fear, I hate to cite statistics on cbid (j/k), but it is just such a remote possibility that I am just not motivated to address home invasion/armed robbery etc. as much as some other concerns that seem to be far more real possibilities.

Second part, I mean more than a battle over this amendment. I mean like a military coup, Nazism, real enactment of totalitarianism...not strong philosophical differences with approximately half the voting population...is this really why gun proponents want weapons? Even more than home invasion fears?

I just want to get a feel for what are the mindsets, I'm not effing with you (or others)...and I was kidding on that other thread!
TMCTLT Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
Paul, I really do understand people who believe in being prepared, and though I'm not sure it really works a high percentage of the time, I'm not trying to stop those that feel better/safer.

I do believe in being prepared for many things, perhaps it will take a disaster to wake me up to what gun owners fear, I hate to cite statistics on cbid (j/k), but it is just such a remote possibility that I am just not motivated to address home invasion/armed robbery etc. as much as some other concerns that seem to be far more real possibilities.

Second part, I mean more than a battle over this amendment. I mean like a military coup, Nazism, real enactment of totalitarianism...not strong philosophical differences with approximately half the voting population...is this really why gun proponents want weapons? Even more than home invasion fears?

I just want to get a feel for what are the mindsets, I'm not effing with you (or others)...and I was kidding on that other thread!



Personally I think ^^ this is your first mistake....believing people who own firearms only do so out of fear!!!! I'm curious though, what " other concerns " are you MORE motivated to address??? Have you asked your loved ones if they share the same " concerns " ?

danmdevries Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 9:44 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,426
Mine are owned for three main reasons.

1.) Utility - pest control. My rifle is quick, humane, and effective. Live trap and relocation? Just makes it someone else's problem. Kill traps work, but only if the pest goes for em. A few nuisance animals in heavier populated areas can be managed with alternative means. Here, the gun has been most effective.

2.) Personal protection. I truly hope to never need it. If I did, I hope and pray it would be on cctv so there's indesputable proof of the event. If not, the case would surely bankrupt me and destroy my career. I was once very anti gun. But I have experienced two events that changed my mind. One was being robbed at gunpoint on the train in Chicago. They got my phone (prepaid crap thing) and like $20. Another was a carjacking that I fought back with my pocket knife late in the beatings despite handing over my keys. Probably would have lost control of the knife if not for an armed person stepping in. I've since moved to a much lower crime area, but I'd prefer to be on equal or higher ground to any potential threat.

3.) Recreation. Guns are a hobby. I enjoy shooting, have several steel targets in the woods I like to ring with handguns. I enjoy reloading ammo, I enjoy restoring and refinishing. I enjoy doing trigger jobs and action smoothing.

I'm the gun guy the more serious call a "fudd" though. I don't oppose restrictions. I don't oppose training requirements (actually wish this was mandatory) I think a lot of the difference of opinion comes from your environment. When I lived in the city, I subscribed to the typical anti gun OK for hunting but that's it. I thought just give thief what they want, things can be replaced. But my outlook started to change and after moving to a more rural area, it solidified.
frankj1 Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 10:55 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
danmdevries wrote:
Mine are owned for three main reasons.

1.) Utility - pest control. My rifle is quick, humane, and effective. Live trap and relocation? Just makes it someone else's problem. Kill traps work, but only if the pest goes for em. A few nuisance animals in heavier populated areas can be managed with alternative means. Here, the gun has been most effective.

2.) Personal protection. I truly hope to never need it. If I did, I hope and pray it would be on cctv so there's indesputable proof of the event. If not, the case would surely bankrupt me and destroy my career. I was once very anti gun. But I have experienced two events that changed my mind. One was being robbed at gunpoint on the train in Chicago. They got my phone (prepaid crap thing) and like $20. Another was a carjacking that I fought back with my pocket knife late in the beatings despite handing over my keys. Probably would have lost control of the knife if not for an armed person stepping in. I've since moved to a much lower crime area, but I'd prefer to be on equal or higher ground to any potential threat.

3.) Recreation. Guns are a hobby. I enjoy shooting, have several steel targets in the woods I like to ring with handguns. I enjoy reloading ammo, I enjoy restoring and refinishing. I enjoy doing trigger jobs and action smoothing.

I'm the gun guy the more serious call a "fudd" though. I don't oppose restrictions. I don't oppose training requirements (actually wish this was mandatory) I think a lot of the difference of opinion comes from your environment. When I lived in the city, I subscribed to the typical anti gun OK for hunting but that's it. I thought just give thief what they want, things can be replaced. But my outlook started to change and after moving to a more rural area, it solidified.

your points all make sense to me, though the owners I know probably rank the reasons as recreation first and protection last...only a couple use for utility.

Are you saying training is not mandatory though? I find this unbelievable.
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Depends... a concealed carry permit requires training. .. at least it used to... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:14 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
DrafterX wrote:
Depends... a concealed carry permit requires training. .. at least it used to... Mellow

fed or local decision for mandatory training?

Not chit stirring, but I think I've heard/read more stories about idiots shooting themselves in the leg while cleaning their guns than actual murders and thwarted crimes combined. Always wondered if they are taught and ignore basic safety principles.

But if they aren't even made to take training...WTF!

What is the NRA's position on training? Should I assume they are anti simply cuz it would likely be run by gov't...ie local/state police? Or are they strong advocates of proper safety and use training?
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:19 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
The NRA is an advocate of training... been a while since I've been to their site but they used to sponsor seminars and stuff. ... the NRA isn't evil as the Dems would have you believe. ..
frankj1 Offline
#82 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
TMCTLT wrote:
[/color]


Personally I think ^^ this is your first mistake....believing people who own firearms only do so out of fear!!!! I'm curious though, what " other concerns " are you MORE motivated to address??? Have you asked your loved ones if they share the same " concerns " ?


I'm trying to find out the motivations, and it seems the small sample here cites worries or concerns (better words than fears I guess) of armed criminals. That is on cbid, and I know not all members here who are owners even post.

But Danmd wrote an informative post, and I mentioned the people I know who own also do not cite fears or protection as their number one issue either. So Fear isn't necessarily what I believe as the only reason to own, but it seems to be the hottest talking point on the boards...so I am looking for more like what Dan said.

For me personally, one more immediate or likely to occur issue would be securing my house from break-ins and loss of property when not home. I feel, rightly or wrongly, that this has a much higher likelihood of happening and a gun won't help me as much as proper locks, partnerships with neighbors to be alert, etc. and ultimately good insurance I guess (HA!).

I'm really quite sincere in trying to understand, Paul. Not really arguing cuz I am not a strong anti guy.
TMCTLT Offline
#83 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
frankj1 wrote:
your points all make sense to me, though the owners I know probably rank the reasons as recreation first and protection last...only a couple use for utility.

Are you saying training is not mandatory though? I find this unbelievable.






FACT: Of the thousands of possible scenarios that could and DO take place....there's No amount of training that would " fit the bill " Sorry....IMHO the ONE ingredient were sadly lacking in todays society.....Common Sense




I'm really quite sincere in trying to understand, Paul. Not really arguing cuz I am not a strong anti guy.[/quote]

I believe you Frank....it's just that I think choice of wording plays a BIG part in the conversation, to incessantly use the word Fear for those who choose to legally defend themselves and their property with deadly force is wrong headed.
frankj1 Offline
#84 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:44 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
TMCTLT wrote:
FACT: Of the thousands of possible scenarios that could and DO take place....there's No amount of training that would " fit the bill " Sorry....IMHO the ONE ingredient were sadly lacking in todays society.....Common Sense




I'm really quite sincere in trying to understand, Paul. Not really arguing cuz I am not a strong anti guy.


I believe you Frank....it's just that I think choice of wording plays a BIG part in the conversation, to incessantly use the word Fear for those who choose to legally defend themselves and their property with deadly force is wrong headed.[/quote]
you'd probably feel differently about me and my beliefs in person. Even though there would be much disagreement, there would be less misunderstanding...
frankj1 Offline
#85 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 11:48 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
DrafterX wrote:
The NRA is an advocate of training... been a while since I've been to their site but they used to sponsor seminars and stuff. ... the NRA isn't evil as the Dems would have you believe. ..

hard to believe, but I never get invited to the secret Dem meetings!

I am encouraged to know this about NRA though. I will admit I haven't cared much about them.
ZRX1200 Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 12:10 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Dan, be careful what you ask for....

Oregon democrats tried to pass mandatory training that included ammo being stored separately and the gun locked IN HOME.

Oh btw, the "training" included firing at a range with HARDER qualifications than police have. Could I have passed it? Oh yes.....but it would have been a gun grab.
ZRX1200 Offline
#87 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,627
Frank, you might wanna read up on the NRA and blacks in the south.
frankj1 Offline
#88 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
ZRX1200 wrote:
Frank, you might wanna read up on the NRA and blacks in the south.

I do believe I will.


"Dan, be careful what you ask for...."

This is what I was asking about when I asked if the NRA would be anti-mandatory training because it would probably be run by the gov't, specifically police departments.
teddyballgame Offline
#89 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 12:33 PM EST
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
frankj1 wrote:
Teddy, trust me, I ask this question without trying to set you up, nor will I pounce on a low number to say "AHA!"... don't forget that this lib is not trying to disarm you. I'd get a gun if I felt i needed the protection.

How many of these guys you personally know have had armed intruders in their homes? I know it happens, I know it is frightening and possibly life threatening, but I do not know anyone that has had it happen, though I do have friends who possess guns legally.

For that matter, as a point of interest and a small unscientific poll, how many here have friends/family who have experienced the horror of armed intruders? Is it way more than where I live (Boston)?

Is the issue of this disputed freedom really more related to fear of a government gone bad, or home invaders?



Hi frank,

Sorry it took a while to answer this, I read the other posters and TMC is sort of spot on as far as how most gun owners I know feel.

To your question, I know 2 people that have had armed intruders in their home in. One was a friend and another lived in my neighborhood (and not a bad neighborhood in the least.) I also have a friend that was robbed at gunpoint when I lived in AZ as he left a shoe store he owned at 10:00pm. (so that is 3 I personally know) He since has gotten a CCW license after not being much of a gun guy at all.
When I moved to Cali and married my wife 3 (we lived in a nice part of town), 3 blocks from us at a nice restaurant, a couple was carjacked by 2 guys at gunpoint at 8:00pm as they left the restaurant, taken to an ATM and forced to remove funds, then drove a few miles to a secluded area and took turns on the guys wife in the back of his pickup as they held a gun to his head.
I never had a gun before this, even being conservative and a gun rights guy, but a week later I had a handgun for home protection.

Even if I didn't know anyone, just because one doesn't know a person it has happened to, does't mean it hasn't happened.

My first and foremost reason for owning a gun is not fear, but protection from others that might do my family grave harm. I don't push gun ownership on anyone. If they don't think owning a gun to protect their family is the right thing to do, then that is their business.
It is better to have a gun and never need it, then to need a gun and not have it.
I have a security system on my home and dogs and signage posted as well.
Secondly, I like to target shoot as it is a fun hobby and I want to be able to hit where I aim.

If you want to learn about the effects of gun ownership, you may want to read a very good book entitled "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott, who went about his research on guns and crime with the assumption that more guns would cause more crime and he was surprised to find the opposite. He has statistics to back it up too.
frankj1 Offline
#90 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Wow, Teddy (is that even your real name?)

I have to say that if I lived your experiences. I'd likely have a gun by now.

I also must admit that I'd like to target shoot, always have since I was a kid in day camp and we shot bb guns at targets stuck on bales of hay. I took an archery elective in college but didn't love it as much as shooting those bb's.

Edin508 is nearby and an avid sportsman and all around good guy. He's offered me the opportunity at his Sportsmen's Club and perhaps this Spring I will take him up on it. But he's been trying to buy me dinner and I never date armed people, never date men either...in fact never date at all cuz I'm married and that's how you get shot.
teddyballgame Offline
#91 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
frankj1 wrote:


Edin508 is nearby and an avid sportsman and all around good guy. He's offered me the opportunity at his Sportsmen's Club and perhaps this Spring I will take him up on it. But he's been trying to buy me dinner and I never date armed people, never date men either...in fact never date at all cuz I'm married and that's how you get shot.



That's funny.

You may want to also invest in a kevlar vest if you decide to go to "dinner and a shooting."
tailgater Offline
#92 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:


Edin508 is nearby and an avid sportsman and all around good guy. He's offered me the opportunity at his Sportsmen's Club and perhaps this Spring I will take him up on it. But he's been trying to buy me dinner and I never date armed people, never date men either...in fact never date at all cuz I'm married and that's how you get shot.


A. Caren must read your posts.
B. You hope she doesn't one day come to her senses.
and
3. Tell Ed I'm in on that threesome. The gun shooty thing. Not the dinner date. I get stage fright.
tonygraz Offline
#93 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 3:07 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
teddyballgame wrote:
...
If you want to learn about the effects of gun ownership, you may want to read a very good book entitled "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott, who went about his research on guns and crime with the assumption that more guns would cause more crime and he was surprised to find the opposite. He has statistics to back it up too.


And there are stats that prove more guns equals more murders. To bad the Feds can't study it due to a law passed by the NRA owned congress.
teddyballgame Offline
#94 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 3:14 PM EST
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
and again I would ask you for stats to back up your baseless claims.
riverdog Offline
#95 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
I guess I'm pretty well a certified old fart, at least according to the Social Security Administration, and I've been a gun owner since buying my first shotgun at 13 years of age. I worked all summer at odd jobs to come up with the $67.50 to pay for that cheap little J.C.Higgins pump 20 gauge from the Sears catalog. Still have that gun and quite a few others, more than a dozen and less than two dozen, and while I consider myself a user rather than a collector some of those guns haven't been fired in a few years. Most of them are shotguns or rifles designed for hunting, there's one scoped pistol that has seen lot of deer into the freezer, one 22 Magnum pocket gun and a 357 Ruger SP101. With the exception of 3 years in the Navy, I've lived every bit of my life as far from cities as possible and still be able to make a living. I say all that so you know I'm not someone who quails at the thought of gun ownership and an armed populace. BUT, something is horribly wrong with the way things are now. I can't for the life of me figure how anyone with reasonable ability for rational thought is unable to see that. And there are a lot of folks here in rural America just like me. Unfortunately we don't have the answers either. Frank, I so wish someone did.
victor809 Offline
#96 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 4:19 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teddyballgame wrote:
and again I would ask you for stats to back up your baseless claims.


His claims aren't baseless. There is at least one study out there correlating mass shootings to gun ownership. I'm sure you'll claim it's bunk and reference a book of anecdotes or something, but it exists. And I say this as someone who wants every single person in america to have the opportunity to purchase any single firearm, explosive or armored vehicle they want.

Just because there is a correlation between shootings and gun ownership, or guns and crime, or anything else... doesn't mean we should give up the opportunity to have guns if we want them.
frankj1 Offline
#97 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 5:45 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
tailgater wrote:
A. Caren must read your posts.
B. You hope she doesn't one day come to her senses.
and
3. Tell Ed I'm in on that threesome. The gun shooty thing. Not the dinner date. I get stage fright.






A. she thinks I'm insane to be here at all, less so after meeting you and Fiddler
B. true, very true.
3. great idea! the gun shooty thing that is. well, maybe dinner after
tonygraz Offline
#98 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,280
teddyballgame wrote:
and again I would ask you for stats to back up your baseless claims.


Don't have time right now, but here are some stats: http://globalnews.ca/news/2378037/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-how-america-canada-and-the-world-compare/?hootPostID=e331e9d837cd0d83ee5e914fcd461de5
TMCTLT Offline
#99 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 6:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
His claims aren't baseless. There is at least one study out there correlating mass shootings to gun ownership. I'm sure you'll claim it's bunk and reference a book of anecdotes or something, but it exists. And I say this as someone who wants every single person in america to have the opportunity to purchase any single firearm, explosive or armored vehicle they want.

Just because there is a correlation between shootings and gun ownership, or guns and crime, or anything else... doesn't mean we should give up the opportunity to have guns if we want them.




So let me get this straight......you think mass shooters are gun owners.....huh Think


And the guy who just stabbed a couple people in the subway.....( he was a" knife owner " whip
victor809 Offline
#100 Posted: Mon, Dec 7 2015, 7:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
So let me get this straight......you think mass shooters are gun owners.....huh Think


And the guy who just stabbed a couple people in the subway.....( he was a" knife owner " whip


.... I understand that the limits of your capability really can't stretch beyond the painfully obvious. But for the rest of us, someone referencing a study correlating gun ownership with mass shootings would mean areas with high gun ownership would have a correlating high number of mass shootings. It isn't rocket surgery, and isn't really newsworthy (the fewer regulations around accessing firearms, the more likely someone who wants to shoot a lot of people will buy one)... but your buddy was claiming tony's statement was baseless.... that is inaccurate.

There are other studies that show a correlation between gun ownership and high crime rates in areas as well.

The statistics exist. They may be accurate, they may be misleading or they may be somewhere int the middle. That's for someone who cares to determine (and has the intelligence to parse statistics, I'm not holding my breath for you to provide a damning rebuttal to statistics of any sort).
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