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Where's the media and POTUS calling for more gun control after this one
cacman Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Armed Robber Shot and Killed by Restaurant Worker
A would-be thief was shot and killed by a Miramar restaurant employee during an armed robbery attempt Wednesday night, police said.

The incident happened at Captain Max Seafood on State Road 7 around 5:30 p.m., Miramar Police spokeswoman Tania Rues said.

According to Rues, the suspect entered the eatery wearing a ski mask and gloves. The employee fired several shots, killing the suspect, Rues said.

At least one customer and other employees were in the restaurant at the time but no other injuries were reported.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Armed-Robber-Shot-and-Killed-by-Restaurant-Worker-Miramar-Police-363431091.html

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Apparently the suspect was seen casing the business earlier in the day.

Many believe it's best to have a gun and not need it, than be caught in a situation where you need one and don't have one.

Wonder if the restaurant and shopping plaza it was in has Gun-Free Zone signs posted?
tonygraz Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
Luckily no innocent bystanders were killed or injured.
TMCTLT Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
Luckily no innocent bystanders were killed or injured.




Fortunately the restaurant employee was a good shot and no other businesses or their customers were put in harms way Win...Win
tonygraz Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
TMCTLT wrote:
Fortunately the restaurant employee was a good shot and no other businesses or their customers were put in harms way Win...Win


Maybe- but it said several shots were fired and didn't say what they hit, if anything other than the robber.
99cobra2881 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
Maybe- but it said several shots were fired and didn't say what they hit, if anything other than the robber.


The only other thing hit by bullets in this incident was the liberal gun control agenda but no one noticed because it's already so full of holes.
tailgater Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
99cobra2881 wrote:
The only other thing hit by bullets in this incident was the liberal gun control agenda but no one noticed because it's already so full of holes.


Perfect!
tonygraz Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
99cobra2881 wrote:
The only other thing hit by bullets in this incident was the liberal gun control agenda but no one noticed because it's already so full of holes.


The gun nuts will shoot anything.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
What was the robber armed with?

I see no indication in the article that existing gun laws were broken or that any demanded restrictions would have impacted the situation. Why would any of you liberal quacks expect the president to demand restrictions because of it?
MACS Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
tonygraz wrote:
The gun nuts will shoot anything.



The nuts, sure... us law-abiding enthusiasts? Not so much.
MACS Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
victor809 wrote:
What was the robber armed with?

I see no indication in the article that existing gun laws were broken or that any demanded restrictions would have impacted the situation. Why would any of you liberal quacks expect the president to demand restrictions because of it?


Watch the video... says he went in armed with a gun, wearing a ski mask and gloves. Sounds like a justified shooting to me!
TMCTLT Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
tonygraz wrote:
The gun nuts will shoot anything.



just when I think you can't top yourself with "nutty " comments.....you prove me wrong!!!
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... I didn't say it wasn't. My question is what about this would cause anyone to demand stricter gun laws? It doesn't follow any of the similarities that previous instances which did result in a demand for stricter gun laws had.

The title of this thread is ridiculous. It should have just been "hey look! A dumbazz got shot!"
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
Victor - there was a masked man armed with a GUN! A criminal! We clearly need gun laws that are more restrictive!

Oh... wait... a law-abiding citizen eliminated the threat with his own gun, killing the criminal, saving the taxpayers money on the trial and housing, and preventing anyone from getting hurt.

Are you telling me you don't understand sarcasm? They didn't say anything because it hurts their cause, thus the title, and the irony of it.
cacman Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
My question is what about this would cause anyone to demand stricter gun laws? It doesn't follow any of the similarities that previous instances which did result in a demand for stricter gun laws had.

Thus the irony and sarcasm. A community in CA is attacked by terrorists with guns purchased legally and the first thing our guberment does is call for stricter gun-control against law-abiding citizens and it's blasted all over the media. But here we have an instance where a legally armed citizen prevented a robbery and possible further deaths and it receives little attention. The narrative doesn't fit the lib's agenda. It flew over your head…
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
tonygraz wrote:
Maybe- but it said several shots were fired and didn't say what they hit, if anything other than the robber.



ya, somebodies conch might have been hit.... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
Several shots in a restaurant in a shopping plaza does concern me.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
did the robber return fire, or was he disabled/killed instantly?
MACS Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
tonygraz wrote:
Several shots in a restaurant in a shopping plaza does concern me.


Why?

Serious questions...

Are you familiar with firearms? Do you own one? Ever taken a safety course? Ever taken a course on how to shoot a handgun?

I realize not everyone who has a CCW is a crack shot, but I would wager that most of the people who apply for a permit, and carry a concealed handgun, are likely gun enthusiasts and therefor more familiar with them than your average "Joe Citizen".

If that were me, I would certainly be concerned with knowing my target and what is beyond and around it... but the bad guy will not. Ever. The proof is in the pudding, Tony. The bad guy is dead, and nobody else was hurt. That's what counts here.
victor809 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... If you can't understand how some individuals might react differently when someone gets guns to use them in an illegal manner vs when someone gets guns to use in a legal manner then you're being intentionally obtuse to support the silly liberal whack jobs posting this thread.

This isn't rocket science. One person got a gun and used it as intended to rob a place, another guy had a different gun and used it as intended to shoot the first guy. And now cacman is whining because our president didn't call for more gun control.
MACS Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
victor809 wrote:
MACS... If you can't understand how some individuals might react differently when someone gets guns to use them in an illegal manner vs when someone gets guns to use in a legal manner then you're being intentionally obtuse to support the silly liberal whack jobs posting this thread.

This isn't rocket science. One person got a gun and used it as intended to rob a place, another guy had a different gun and used it as intended to shoot the first guy. And now cacman is whining because our president didn't call for more gun control.


You're calling ME obtuse, and yet you don't get the irony/sarcasm of the thread title?

My instinct tells me you DO get it, have always gotten it, and are just being your usual contrarian, douchebag self.

At least you're consistent! Beer
ZRX1200 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
+1^

For the village idiot....legal concealed carry holders have much better numbers in gunfights than the police. But that would be contrary to your narrative.
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
happy ending.
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... I'll admit I'm being intentionally obtuse. But the original poster leaves me no other option. Never in the history of the USA has even the most gun grabbing politician ever demanded stricter gun laws after a situation similar to the one documented here. Given that it has never happened yet, an given that I'm sure similar situations have happened in the USA in the past 7 years, there is no rational reason for the original poster to be even sarcastically worried it may happen. If they aren't rationally worried it might happen, then the only conclusion I can draw is that they are literally asking for it to happen. Cacman must be a pinko commie liberal. He probably wants to keep guns out of the hands of drug users and mental health patients too... I wish libtards like that would just go back to mother Russia where they belong.
Brewha Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
cacman wrote:
Thus the irony and sarcasm. A community in CA is attacked by terrorists with guns purchased legally and the first thing our guberment does is call for stricter gun-control against law-abiding citizens and it's blasted all over the media. But here we have an instance where a legally armed citizen prevented a robbery and possible further deaths and it receives little attention. The narrative doesn't fit the lib's agenda. It flew over your head…

Of course I see the sarcasm and most others do - paper thin though it may be.

It does underscore your contempt for those who would try to make the nation a safer place by adjusting regulations and making back ground checks more meaningful. And it makes me question if you understand what they are trying to do at all.

Ill try to post a related link to a story I read about a man who cut his hand while carving the Christmas turkey with a knife. It would have never happened if he had been properly armed.....
tonygraz Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
MACS wrote:
Why?

Serious questions...

Are you familiar with firearms? Do you own one? Ever taken a safety course? Ever taken a course on how to shoot a handgun?

I realize not everyone who has a CCW is a crack shot, but I would wager that most of the people who apply for a permit, and carry a concealed handgun, are likely gun enthusiasts and therefor more familiar with them than your average "Joe Citizen".

If that were me, I would certainly be concerned with knowing my target and what is beyond and around it... but the bad guy will not. Ever. The proof is in the pudding, Tony. The bad guy is dead, and nobody else was hurt. That's what counts here.


3 yes and one no. What I am trying to say is that the shooter could have just been lucky. If he was a good shot and was in a good range for accuracy for the gun used, why were there several shots. How many shots were there and did they all hit the target ? What if one or more missed and hit a bystander ? I can see a time coming when a disaster in such a situation is very possible.
gummy jones Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
tonygraz wrote:
Luckily no innocent bystanders were killed or injured.


I'm on your side on this one
i would have rather the robber just got anything and everything, potentially killing or maiming in the process

and then, becoming ever more courageous in his craft, repeating the act next week

i read the bad guy wasn't really a bad guy and was just about to turn his life around [insert cute 4th grade picture of bad guy] and was even an aspiring [rap] artist!

[hypotheticals are fun aren't they]
MACS Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
tonygraz wrote:
3 yes and one no. What I am trying to say is that the shooter could have just been lucky. If he was a good shot and was in a good range for accuracy for the gun used, why were there several shots. How many shots were there and did they all hit the target ? What if one or more missed and hit a bystander ? I can see a time coming when a disaster in such a situation is very possible.


That is quite possible even with an officer firing the gun. Not all cops are good shots.
99cobra2881 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Bad guy with the gun gets the typical lib free pass on this one for attempting the robbery while the actions of the good guy are disected, discredited and second guessed.

Good guy with a gun stopped the bad guy with a gun. No other narrative or what if matters.
tonygraz Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
I think he's dead - that's not a free pass.
DrafterX Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
he was a bad guy... Mellow
99cobra2881 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
I think he's dead - that's not a free pass.


Bull**** Tony your whole narrative on this has been nothing but to focus on the restaurant worker that shot the armed assailant and to try to say or imply he was in the wrong because (what if?) he could've shot an inoccent bystander.

Never once did you say if the azzhole hadn't walked into the place and tried to commit an armed robbery no one would've been shot.

So yes that's a free pass that you gave to the dead sonofabitch, who I'll say got exactly what he deserved.






DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,588
Tony believes after the dude shot and killed several people and robbed the joint he deserves a jury trial so he can claim insanity or somethin... shooting him just wasn't fair... Mellow
tonygraz Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
99cobra2881 wrote:
Bull**** Tony your whole narrative on this has been nothing but to focus on the restaurant worker that shot the armed assailant and to try to say or imply he was in the wrong because (what if?) he could've shot an inoccent bystander.

Never once did you say if the azzhole hadn't walked into the place and tried to commit an armed robbery no one would've been shot.

So yes that's a free pass that you gave to the dead sonofabitch, who I'll say got exactly what he deserved.



You are really turning out the be a real dumbass. Everybody with a gun can be dangerous, particularly the morons than like to say "a good guy with a gun".
99cobra2881 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
You are really turning out the be a real dumbass. Everybody with a gun can be dangerous, particularly the morons than like to say "a good guy with a gun".



That's all you have? Name calling and an agenda that's full of holes like I said.
tonygraz Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
Perhaps you are just to dumb to realize how one missing or grazing bullet turns the "good guy with a gun" into a bad guy with a gun facing criminal and civil action from one shot gone awry.
ZRX1200 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,662
Cobra, don't waste your time on the troll.
99cobra2881 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
Perhaps you are just to dumb to realize how one missing or grazing bullet turns the "good guy with a gun" into a bad guy with a gun facing criminal and civil action from one shot gone awry.


And maybe you're just too stubborn to realize your whole argument is based on a "what if" and not based on any actual events that happened in this situation.

So yet again you give the bad guy that showed up and was in the act of committing a crime the free pass while saying that the person who was defending his or her property is "now the bad guy facing criminal and civil action for one shot gone awry."

Any loss of life or injury should be charged to the person committing the crime not to the person attempting to stop the crime from happening. Self defense is not a crime.



Brewha Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
What ever happened to Randolph Scott?
victor809 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hang on second. I'm all for all the criminals and all the patrons having guns and having the right to shoot each other if necessary...

But I draw the line at allowing anyone "good guy" or not be able to defer responsibility of their actions. If you shoot a bystander, that's your responsibility, not the criminal robbing the place's responsibility. If you're taking a shot at a criminal and you don't have the necessary skills to hit what you're aiming at under the conditions, but do it anyway, then you are to blame for it.

Shoot people as much as you want, I don't care. But you have to take responsibility for your own level of skill.
gummy jones Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
victor809 wrote:
Hang on second. I'm all for all the criminals and all the patrons having guns and having the right to shoot each other if necessary...

But I draw the line at allowing anyone "good guy" or not be able to defer responsibility of their actions. If you shoot a bystander, that's your responsibility, not the criminal robbing the place's responsibility. If you're taking a shot at a criminal and you don't have the necessary skills to hit what you're aiming at under the conditions, but do it anyway, then you are to blame for it.

Shoot people as much as you want, I don't care. But you have to take responsibility for your own level of skill.


your hypothetical anger is misplaced. i think your first campaign needs to be in some of the police barracks instead.
tonygraz Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
99cobra2881 wrote:
And maybe you're just too stubborn to realize your whole argument is based on a "what if" and not based on any actual events that happened in this situation.

So yet again you give the bad guy that showed up and was in the act of committing a crime the free pass while saying that the person who was defending his or her property is "now the bad guy facing criminal and civil action for one shot gone awry."

Any loss of life or injury should be charged to the person committing the crime not to the person attempting to stop the crime from happening. Self defense is not a crime.



So you think shooting an innocent bystander is OK. Nice Christian attitude !
99cobra2881 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
So you think shooting an innocent bystander is OK. Nice Christian attitude !


Haha Christianity has nothing to do with this but nice try to add validity to your flawed argument. Maybe if the criminal had gone to church more he wouldn't be walking into a business to steal from innocent people?

Point is no one would've been shot if the criminal had not tried to commit a crime. The criminal is responsible for any collateral damage or injury that occurred due to their actions.

Do you also blame the fire dept for not putting out a fire quick enough after an arsonist has set a building ablaze? Is the fire dept liable because they couldn't get all the people out of the building before it burned to the ground?

The answer is "no" the arsonist that set the fire is charged with the murder of the innocent people in the building. The fire dept was there to try to put out the fire same as a person with a gun trying to stop a criminal with a gun.
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Let me get this straight... If I have a personal protection law rocket or fully automatic uzi (which I fully support your right to own and carry wherever you want) and a bad guy with a gun holds up a store I'm in... I choose to protect myself by taking out the bad guy with a gun by being a good guy with a fully automatic weapon (or rocket) and unloading on him. In the process I take out the clerk, a guide dog and 3 customers. This falls under "not something I'm responsible for"?

I am fully willing to support anyone's desire to walk around with any damn weapon they want, but the instant they pull that weapon out, no matter what caused them to decide to pull it out, they are fully responsible for any damage or injury it causes. Don't try ducking responsibility.
Abrignac Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,363
Brewha wrote:
Of course I see the sarcasm and most others do - paper thin though it may be.

It does underscore your contempt for those who would try to make the nation a safer place by adjusting regulations and making back ground checks more meaningful. And it makes me question if you understand what they are trying to do at all.

Ill try to post a related link to a story I read about a man who cut his hand while carving the Christmas turkey with a knife. It would have never happened if he had been properly armed.....


The problem is your premise is deeply flawed. No amount of gun regulations are gonna keep a gun out of someone's hands who desires to possess one no matter what you do short of a global confiscation of every firearm on the planet. One has to be very naive to think such is possible. The success of such has about as much a chance of occurring as the War on Drugs has been successful in stemming the flow of illicit drugs. Since the dawn of man there has been an underground market for "illegal" merchandise. As long as the items exist consumers will purchase them. The more the supply dwindles, the higher the price and thus the incentive to acquire through whatever means possible will inch upward.
tonygraz Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
There is a difference between a gun owner and a RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER. If you are not responsible, you shouldn't have a gun.
Brewha Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
Abrignac wrote:
The problem is your premise is deeply flawed. No amount of gun regulations are gonna keep a gun out of someone's hands who desires to possess one no matter what you do short of a global confiscation of every firearm on the planet. One has to be very naive to think such is possible. The success of such has about as much a chance of occurring as the War on Drugs has been successful in stemming the flow of illicit drugs. Since the dawn of man there has been an underground market for "illegal" merchandise. As long as the items exist consumers will purchase them. The more the supply dwindles, the higher the price and thus the incentive to acquire through whatever means possible will inch upward.

Actually it was only some tongue in cheek sarcasm, not so much a premise.

However, the idea that laws and regulations cannot reduce gun violence is fallacious. Dynamite is rather heavily regulated and few people commit crimes with it. But dynamite is not the point.

You're a LEO, do you feel we are all safer if, as today, most any one can be armed?
Should the gun show loop hole that permits felons to buy guns be closed?
Should court rooms be disallowed from being gun free zones because the people, jurors and magistrate are safer knowing the general assembly is armed?

Self protection is a good thing. But too much of anything is not a good thing. People who are armed should have a valid reason, be properly background checked, and not permitted to carry them anywhere.

I don't want anyone to take your gun. You're a pro.
It is the amateurs that worry me....
MACS Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
The 2nd amendment is a valid reason, I have been properly background checked, and if the criminals can carry anywhere and I can't... what's the point?

CA has a 10 day waiting period, no matter where you purchase. Private sales have to go through a gun dealer, who has to conduct the check. Gun shows, too. Other states have the same rules, though most do not.

Personally, I am ALL FOR the background checks... in ALL states, but they should not take 10 days. 2-3 business days seems sufficient.

So an LEO gets a pass because his job requires him to carry a gun? You know the course to qualify is pretty easy, and while they are encouraged to practice (many depts give practice rounds), it is not mandatory, and a lot do not.
MACS Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,888
Oh, and court rooms are a completely different animal... everyone except on duty LEO's have to go through security screening before entering... so it's a given that the only people armed in there are the cops. As it should be, for obvious reasons.
tonygraz Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,320
From what I've heard it's very difficult to do a good background check in 2-3 days. Perhaps if they upgraded and computerized it it could be done, but now it's nearly impossible and with the big increases in gun sales lately it's even tougher.
99cobra2881 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
From what I've heard it's very difficult to do a good background check in 2-3 days. Perhaps if they upgraded and computerized it it could be done, but now it's nearly impossible and with the big increases in gun sales lately it's even tougher.


Really? So if what you say is true why did my background check take less than 10 minutes including me filling out the atf form 4473 and the gun shop owner waiting on hold?

Here inform yourself with information that is based in fact for once.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics
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