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Where's the media and POTUS calling for more gun control after this one
ZRX1200 Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
^ depends on the state.
Brewha Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
MACS wrote:
The 2nd amendment is a valid reason, I have been properly background checked, and if the criminals can carry anywhere and I can't... what's the point?
.


Help me out here MACS. It sound like you're saying "There are lawless people, so why have laws at all?"

Is that really your argument?
victor809 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS = libtards.
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sorry... That should be singular... MACS=libtard
Brewha Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
MACS wrote:
Oh, and court rooms are a completely different animal... everyone except on duty LEO's have to go through security screening before entering... so it's a given that the only people armed in there are the cops. As it should be, for obvious reasons.

Sorry MACS, I was trying to illustrate the irony of many people's argument that where guns are not allowed, no one is safe. Gun free zones invite violence is the theory. So would not a court room be safer if it was required that all attendees be armed?

- jk
Brewha Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
victor809 wrote:
MACS = libtards.

Your just jealous because you continue to fail at being a liberal.

You want I should sent you a Green Peace application?
victor809 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'll pick one up from MACS... I think he has some extras along with his anti-2nd Amendment monthly subscription. ;)
MACS Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
Brewha wrote:
Help me out here MACS. It sound like you're saying "There are lawless people, so why have laws at all?"

Is that really your argument?


You know exactly what I'm saying. Restrictive laws that benefit no one but the criminals are pointless... unless you want to encourage the criminals.

And while courthouses are a gun-free zone, they are also "enforced" gun free zones that have GUN TOTING COPS protecting them.
Brewha Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
It's a bit of an old joke; Archie Bunker posited back in the '70’s that the way to stop highjackings was to arm all the passengers. It was an obvious joke then. But today many argue that it makes sence.

In the fear of us loosing our arms, people argue that they are a panacea for violence. They by no means are.
And our denial that they are an inherent risk only calls for more control. After all, people seen increasingly blind to the hazards - because they just want them.
Abrignac Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
Brewha wrote:
Actually it was only some tongue in cheek sarcasm, not so much a premise.

However, the idea that laws and regulations cannot reduce gun violence is fallacious. Dynamite is rather heavily regulated and few people commit crimes with it. But dynamite is not the point.

You're a LEO, do you feel we are all safer if, as today, most any one can be armed?
Should the gun show loop hole that permits felons to buy guns be closed?
Should court rooms be disallowed from being gun free zones because the people, jurors and magistrate are safer knowing the general assembly is armed?

Self protection is a good thing. But too much of anything is not a good thing. People who are armed should have a valid reason, be properly background checked, and not permitted to carry them anywhere.

I don't want anyone to take your gun. You're a pro.
It is the amateurs that worry me....


The dynamite comparison is apples to oranges. There is a big picture which people fail to see. I'll readily admit that if there were not close to 400 million privately owned firearms in the US then more restrictive gun regulations might be more effective. The reason a highly regulated dynamite industry is effective is twofold. First off, you can't walk into damn near every house in the Us and find at least one stick of dynamite. But, you can walk into the average household in the US and find a firearm. If a person intent on acquiring is unable to legally purchase a firearm that same person will more likely than not purchase a stolen one off the books.

If one were trying to stem the loss of human life by restricting firearm sales then that too fails. Ask any LEO and they will tell you that at least 80% of firearm related deaths are committed with firearms aquired from off the book transactions, most of which have been stolen.

At the end of the day, with the numbers of privately owned firearms at the level it is the only person being inconvenienced by tighter regulations are people like you and me.

As far as whether or not as a LEO would I feel safer if the gun show loophole was closed the answer is no. Keep in mind I have to interact with the very people you seek to prevent gun ownership from. From experience I can tell you they are an enterprising lot. If the can't aquire firearms legally they will aquire them illegally. Besides, the background checks absolutely do not stop a convicted felon from acquiring a legally registered firearm. The simple alternative to that is to get a girlfriend, boyfriend, relative or otherwise to purchase it for them. It's done everyday in just about every locality in the US.

As far as the waiting period, be it 10 minutes or 10 days does absolutely nothing to make a meaningful dent in gun related homocides. All but a handful are committed with firearms that were possessed by the perpetrator in advance of the incident. Of the other handful, the majority of those are committed by persons who aquired said firearm from the guy selling them from his car in the parking lot or one of his "boys" while enroute to the incident.

As far as people who are armed must be so for a valid reason, people in hell would love to be given a cup of ice water, but doing so is much easier said than done.

Notice is didn't disagree with your logic. I merely pointed out why its impractical. What you suggest is nothing less than feel good legislation which will not even marginally make society a safer place. But, it does provide a mechinism to divide voters.

Carry on.
TMCTLT Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
ZRX1200 wrote:
Cobra, don't waste your time on the troll.




This IS some solid advice....I'm currently putting it into action.
MACS Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
Brewha wrote:
It's a bit of an old joke; Archie Bunker posited back in the '70’s that the way to stop highjackings was to arm all the passengers. It was an obvious joke then. But today many argue that it makes sence.

In the fear of us loosing our arms, people argue that they are a panacea for violence. They by no means are.
And our denial that they are an inherent risk only calls for more control. After all, people seen increasingly blind to the hazards - because they just want them.


Arming all of the passengers would be foolish. Not all of them would want to have a gun, and many of them shouldn't. Guns are absolutely not a solution to violence, they are an answer to meeting force with equal or greater force. They will also not always be a deterrent... some folks are just plain crazy, or don't care, however, they can and have been a deterrent to crime. The story in this thread proves that point.

Personally, I have no desire to kill anyone. I also have no desire to be killed. The odds may not support one ever having to use a gun in self defense, but the odds of winning the lottery are 1 in 15 million and millions of people still play.

Why?

Because it could happen.
tonygraz Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
99cobra2881 wrote:
Really? So if what you say is true why did my background check take less than 10 minutes including me filling out the atf form 4473 and the gun shop owner waiting on hold?

Here inform yourself with information that is based in fact for once.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics


Apparently they will sell a gun to anyone and your IQ was low enough. Too bad they don't have a test to see if you were responsible enough to own a gun.
Speyside Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I disagree that it was lucky no innocent bystanders were shot by the law abiding gun owner. I think it was fortunate that the law abiding gun owner stopped the armed robber before any innocent bystanders were murdered.
gummy jones Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
what is this "gunshow loophole" that the media is all up in arms about?

are they talking about private transfers of personal property?

last time i checked any ffl that has a table at a gunshow has to do a nics check upon selling a firearm
but heck, that doesnt sell news stories

lets talk about 10 year old kids walking in with runny noses and walking out with machine guns
ZRX1200 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Tony.

You're really sad and truly pathetic. Step back and look at the mirror and evaluate your participation here......do you make it a better place? Well your differing opinions are nice to shake things up, the way you are to others is not. Maybe a news year resolution is in order. If you can handle that, I'll quit calling you a P.O.S.

P.S. you being a P.O.S. has nothing to do with your actual opinions to me, just you as a "person".

Sincerely,
Z
gummy jones Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
ZRX1200 wrote:
Tony.

You're really sad and truly pathetic. Step back and look at the mirror and evaluate your participation here......do you make it a better place? Well your differing opinions are nice to shake things up, the way you are to others is not. Maybe a news year resolution is in order. If you can handle that, I'll quit calling you a P.O.S.

P.S. you being a P.O.S. has nothing to do with your actual opinions to me, just you as a "person".

Sincerely,
Z


please, don't hold back
tell us how you really feel
tonygraz Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
ZRX1200 wrote:
Tony.

You're really sad and truly pathetic. Step back and look at the mirror and evaluate your participation here......do you make it a better place? Well your differing opinions are nice to shake things up, the way you are to others is not. Maybe a news year resolution is in order. If you can handle that, I'll quit calling you a P.O.S.

P.S. you being a P.O.S. has nothing to do with your actual opinions to me, just you as a "person".

Sincerely,
Z


Just because someone has ideas different than yours doesn't mean they are wrong. I think you are a POS, just because you act like it.
MACS Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
I'm only a dipsh*t when I've been drinking...
ZRX1200 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Change you're description of me to "a $$whole, pricķ, jerk" and you'd probably have a few agree with you. Once again you've shown what you are.....and you're probably not even drunk like MACS when he's a dip $hït.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Ohhhh POS, a $$whole, pricķ, jerk fight! POS, a $$whole, pricķ, jerk fight!

Get your pocpcorn, hot dogs, peanuts, soda, beer, goulash here!


POS, a $$whole, pricķ, jerk fight! POS, a $$whole, pricķ, jerk fight!

Get your pocpcorn, hot dogs, peanuts, soda, beer, goulash here!
99cobra2881 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
tonygraz wrote:
Apparently they will sell a gun to anyone and your IQ was low enough. Too bad they don't have a test to see if you were responsible enough to own a gun.


When presented with facts all you have are insults. State by state differs but I know it didn't take days for mine and the FBI has a system to do quick background checks despite what you heard.

Go smoke another Amati.


ZRX1200 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
TG, thanks! LMAO!!!

Just dislike seeing a nice guy like 99cobra who hasn't been through enough C-Bid cycles to know better than getting to tangled with someone like trolly. I told someone else who should know better to stop it, but he didn't listen. But he can't seem to help himself.
99cobra2881 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
ZRX1200 wrote:
TG, thanks! LMAO!!!

Just dislike seeing a nice guy like 99cobra who hasn't been through enough C-Bid cycles to know better than getting to tangled with someone like trolly. I told someone else who should know better to stop it, but he didn't listen. But he can't seem to help himself.


I appreciate the advice but no worries I'm not getting too tangled up here. I'll keep posting facts and truths then laugh after getting called names and having my IQ called into question instead of seeing any type of counter point or differing view posted.

frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
is Ball Park goulash any good?
tonygraz Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
Only in Hungary if you're hungry. And they still haven't caught the Portland Pooper.
Brewha Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
So here in Texas on January 1st, the new open carry law goes into effect.

It's the Wild West reborn. Men - and ladies - can now walk about town with a six shooter slung at there side. Because Texas is stupid and fiercely proud of it.

We have a problem with "Apple picking". Someone sees you on your phone, walks up and cold conks you, and they got your phone. So if your in Texas, need a gun, just break a beer bottle over the first open carry patriot you see. And your armed.


Just kidding - with Open Carry, crime will vanish over night......
tailgater Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
So here in Texas on January 1st, the new open carry law goes into effect.

It's the Wild West reborn. Men - and ladies - can now walk about town with a six shooter slung at there side. Because Texas is stupid and fiercely proud of it.

We have a problem with "Apple picking". Someone sees you on your phone, walks up and cold conks you, and they got your phone. So if your in Texas, need a gun, just break a beer bottle over the first open carry patriot you see. And your armed.


Just kidding - with Open Carry, crime will vanish over night......


The morbid popularity of "Apple Picking" thrives on the helpless nature of the victim.

I'll let you figure out the rest.



99cobra2881 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2013
Posts: 2,472
Brewha wrote:
So here in Texas on January 1st, the new open carry law goes into effect.

It's the Wild West reborn. Men - and ladies - can now walk about town with a six shooter slung at there side. Because Texas is stupid and fiercely proud of it.

We have a problem with "Apple picking". Someone sees you on your phone, walks up and cold conks you, and they got your phone. So if your in Texas, need a gun, just break a beer bottle over the first open carry patriot you see. And your armed.


Just kidding - with Open Carry, crime will vanish over night......




Sigh... Who is stupid? The state of Texas or the people that think law abiding Americans automatically become criminals when they have a gun.

That's some balls to walk up to someone carrying and try to take their gun. People with phones meh not so much you don't get them knocked out they don't shoot you.

Don't much hear about people doing that to cops very often. I heard it happened in Missouri to that hands up don't shoot guy but that didn't turn out too good for him either.

I'm done.... this is a cigar forum, it's something I enjoy very, very much. I don't need this crap. Anti-gun pro-gun whatever your reasons are that's fine.

Just know that when the **** hits the fan you're either gonna stand there helpless or you're going to try to prevent whatever bad thing it is from happening to you or your family. Don't wanna protect yourself fine that's your choice. I've made my choice. I'm not more apt to commit a crime because there's a gun on my hip if anything I'm more aware of my surroundings and more vigilant.

Walk around defenseless, it's a free country.
gummy jones Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Brewha wrote:
So here in Texas on January 1st, the new open carry law goes into effect.

It's the Wild West reborn. Men - and ladies - can now walk about town with a six shooter slung at there side. Because Texas is stupid and fiercely proud of it.

We have a problem with "Apple picking". Someone sees you on your phone, walks up and cold conks you, and they got your phone. So if your in Texas, need a gun, just break a beer bottle over the first open carry patriot you see. And your armed.


Just kidding - with Open Carry, crime will vanish over night......


open carry is legal in a ton of other states yet the wild west remains in the movies

i open carry often but usually leave the spurs and chaps at home

and i have never seen a cop conceal their duty weapon yet i only rarely read about cops randomly having their guns stolen

but ya, i guess anything is possible
ZRX1200 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Brewha, many states are open carry. My state is open carry. I open carry quite a bit (pistol, holstered. No long gun) and have had nothing but positive interactions with LEOs (primarily state troopers while fishing)

Look at that states that have this, apple picking guns isn't a widespread issue.
MACS Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
Personally, I prefer concealed to open carry. I don't want the bad guys to know I'm armed, and I don't want to scare little girls...

... like brewha. Herfing
gummy jones Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Not targeting anyone in particular with this comment but nowadays all it seems to take to become an expert on any number of topics is to read a few internet memes and an op-ed.
tonygraz Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
Can't open carry here and you can get arrested if it shows. 4 of the guys I work with carry (with permits) and are very careful to keep it concealed. They only carry when we are in rougher neighborhoods/areas.
Brewha Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
gummy jones wrote:
open carry is legal in a ton of other states yet the wild west remains in the movies

i open carry often but usually leave the spurs and chaps at home

and i have never seen a cop conceal their duty weapon yet i only rarely read about cops randomly having their guns stolen

but ya, i guess anything is possible

Maybe I overemphasize the added danger. But remember, Texas had Rick Perry as governor - and that was some serious stupid. Texans are already shooting each other because someone blew there horn or changed lanes without signaling. Now this...

We have had a series of demonstrations where people line the streets with there rifles slung. Why? "Because it's our right". So now a number of city councils have created laws to keep guns out of certain areas.

No good will come of this.....
Brewha Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
ZRX1200 wrote:
Brewha, many states are open carry. My state is open carry. I open carry quite a bit (pistol, holstered. No long gun) and have had nothing but positive interactions with LEOs (primarily state troopers while fishing)

Look at that states that have this, apple picking guns isn't a widespread issue.

Z, where do you open carry? Out on the range, or in the grocery store?

Why are you armed when you open carry?
cacman Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Brewha wrote:
Z, where do you open carry? Out on the range, or in the grocery store?

Why are you armed when you open carry?

Open carry is permitted, and encouraged here too. You'll see folks in the grocery store, at the post office, riding their mountain bike, or having lunch while carrying.
cacman Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Ohio Woman Shoots and Kills Intruder During Home Invasion Robbery
Police said the unidentified woman opened fire on three men who broke into her home at 6 a.m. She killed one of them during the alleged robbery.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1930192-3-masked-men-forcibly-enter-ohio-armed-homeowners-house-but-only-two-escape/


Good thing this woman doesn't live in CA. She would probably loose her firearm after defending herself out there.
Brewha Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
MACS wrote:
Personally, I prefer concealed to open carry. I don't want the bad guys to know I'm armed, and I don't want to scare little girls...

... like brewha. Herfing

Shame on you MACS. I thought you have more class, intelligence and culture than to stoop to....

...Ok, I never really thought that.
Carry on.
ZRX1200 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Brewha, I generally speaking only carry "outdoors" as some businesses aren't welcoming to open carry and I'm not in the business of forcing my rights on others. Alot of the people that are afraid of open carry just don't understand the true mindset of 99% of gun owners. So I prefer to showing them that thought in a positive way, like offering to take them to the range.....many get at least part of it after that....and generally they don't swing to my thinking in a lifestyle change of them buying and supporting the 2ndA. But they're less like to swing into the other camp. Make sense?

Some local businesses do however GIVE DISCOUNTS to people who open carry.
MACS Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
Brewha wrote:
Shame on you MACS. I thought you have more class, intelligence and culture than to stoop to....

...Ok, I never really thought that.
Carry on.


HA! Good one. I was joking with you (mostly) thus the smiley.

I have intelligence and common sense (usually), not much for class or culture, though... as you could probably tell. d'oh!
Brewha Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
ZRX1200 wrote:
Brewha, I generally speaking only carry "outdoors" as some businesses aren't welcoming to open carry and I'm not in the business of forcing my rights on others. Alot of the people that are afraid of open carry just don't understand the true mindset of 99% of gun owners. So I prefer to showing them that thought in a positive way, like offering to take them to the range.....many get at least part of it after that....and generally they don't swing to my thinking in a lifestyle change of them buying and supporting the 2ndA. But they're less like to swing into the other camp. Make sense?

Some local businesses do however GIVE DISCOUNTS to people who open carry.

Z, there are many places in the wilderness where it is only reasonable to carry a side arm. Bears, wolfs, snakes, bandits, etc. Where I take issue with the wisdom of carrying is in populated areas. I feel we are better off having the arms in the hands of the pros. Amateurs worry me. I see the risk to the general population rise with quality and display of guns. I know that many feel the opposite is true.

I understand your position and you seem responsible. Know that many in my family have guns and that I have fired many a round. Guess I am seeing too many people do stupid things with their guns. I need not reminded of the number of crazies out there. And a lot of them love the guns....
Brewha Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
MACS wrote:
HA! Good one. I was joking with you (mostly) thus the smiley.

I have intelligence and common sense (usually), not much for class or culture, though... as you could probably tell. d'oh!

It's all good MACS. There is nothing I like more than trading a few digs.
No offense meant or taken my brother.

And I'm sure you have a lot of class.
While its level may be another matter...

Herfing
ZRX1200 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
I get your point and see your concerns as valid, but honestly concealed carry people are far safer in all aspect than the "pros". Some in the open carry "movement" are crazy stupid, but you have blindness from the other side getting traction and some see meek as not working. Human nature n stuff Mellow.

I think a lot of forces like division and vitriol, keeps focus away from things and angry people are easier to control.
gummy jones Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Brewha wrote:
Z, there are many places in the wilderness where it is only reasonable to carry a side arm. Bears, wolfs, snakes, bandits, etc. Where I take issue with the wisdom of carrying is in populated areas. I feel we are better off having the arms in the hands of the pros. Amateurs worry me. I see the risk to the general population rise with quality and display of guns. I know that many feel the opposite is true.

I understand your position and you seem responsible. Know that many in my family have guns and that I have fired many a round. Guess I am seeing too many people do stupid things with their guns. I need not reminded of the number of crazies out there. And a lot of them love the guns....


the reality of the situation is that our biggest threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is two legged predators, not bears/wolves/snakes/etc.

banderl Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
A question for those who carry.
Why do you feel the need? Have you been attacked before?
I'll be 61 in a month, live in the Chicago area, and have never felt that I needed a firearm for protection.
I can't say that I personally even know anyone who's been attacked.
I just don't get it.
Brewha Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
gummy jones wrote:
the reality of the situation is that our biggest threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is two legged predators, not bears/wolves/snakes/etc.


You mean the people who own the Fed?
Brewha Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
ZRX1200 wrote:
I get your point and see your concerns as valid, but honestly concealed carry people are far safer in all aspect than the "pros". Some in the open carry "movement" are crazy stupid, but you have blindness from the other side getting traction and some see meek as not working. Human nature n stuff Mellow.

I think a lot of forces like division and vitriol, keeps focus away from things and angry people are easier to control.

True, true. I think most responsible gun owner want to see them kept out of the wrong hands.
But every time we talked about improving regulations some igits start crying "there gonna take all our guns".

Sad but true.
Abrignac Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
banderl wrote:
A question for those who carry.
Why do you feel the need? Have you been attacked before?
I'll be 61 in a month, live in the Chicago area, and have never felt that I needed a firearm for protection.
I can't say that I personally even know anyone who's been attacked.
I just don't get it.


I think you have completely missed the point. It's got little to do with a perceived need and more to do with your rights guaranteed by the Constitution. One doesn't always need a reason.

Also, I'm thankful for 18 USC 926B & 926C. Because of that I can conceal carry in ANY jurisdiction in the United States.

As far as you not knowing anyone who has ever been attacked, WGAF? Should someone first become a victim before they increase their odds of protecting themselves? No one is forcing you to arm yourself even if you have the right to do so.
MACS Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
Brewha wrote:
You mean the people who own the Fed?


Yeah, and the 545 other politicians who are running, er, ruining our country.
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