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Toyota's chairman and former CEO, Akio Toyoda, told reporters at an auto show in Japan this week that waning demand for electric vehicles (EV) is a sign that people are waking up to the reality that EVs aren't the silver bullet against the supposed ills of carbon emissions they're often made out to be.

"People are finally seeing reality" about EV technology, Mr. Toyoda told reporters ahead of the Japan Mobility Show in Tokyo this week, speaking in his capacity as the head of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, the organizer of the event.

Mr. Toyoda, a long-time skeptic of a full-steam-ahead adoption of EVs, stepped down from his role as CEO of Toyota this year amid criticism that he wasn't serious enough about pushing the company into a quick adoption of battery-powered cars.

Asked by reporters at the auto show on his thoughts about falling EV demand, Mr. Toyoda's response implied that he feels vindicated in his reluctance.

"There are many ways to climb the mountain that is achieving carbon neutrality," he said while suggesting that consumers are finally waking up from a dreamscape pushed by climate change alarmists that puts EVs on a pedestal and overhypes their benefits while downplaying their drawbacks.

His remarks came as demand growth for EVs in various markets has slowed, leading some companies to dial back their electrification plans.

Waning Demand

Market research firm Canalys estimates that global sales of EVs rose 49 percent in the first half of this year, down from last year's 63 percent pace of growth.

Honda and General Motors announced on Wednesday that they were scrapping a $5 billion plan to develop EVs together, while GM said on Tuesday that it was slowing its electrification strategy.

GM is "moderating the acceleration of EV production to protect our pricing, adjust to slower near-term growth in demand and implement engineering changes that will bolster profits," GM Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson said in an Oct. 24 earnings call with reporters in which he revealed that the weeks-long strike by unionized auto workers had already cost the company $800 million and counting.

Ford said earlier this month that it would temporarily cut one of three shifts at a plant that builds its electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck after slowing its EV ramp-up in July. remove

"EV demand next year could be lower than expectations," Lee Chang-sil, chief financial officer at South Korean battery maker LG Energy Solution said on Wednesday, per Reuters.

Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, who has been helping the Biden administration push EVs onto reluctant drivers, recently acknowledged some their drawbacks, saying he's had trouble finding reliable EV charging stations. His admission came as the federal agency he helms announced $100 million in funding for EV charging stations.

'Automotive Seasoning'

Mr. Toyoda's remarks at the auto show that people are becoming more clear-eyed about the drawbacks of EVs stood in some contrast to an EV-boosting speech given by the current Toyota CEO and President, Koji Sato.

Mr. Sato spoke at an Oct. 25 press briefing at the Japan Mobility Show, kicking off his presentation by hyping up EVs.

"The first story is our future life with battery EVs," he said, according to a transcript of his remarks. "They are not only eco-friendly. Electric cars also offer their own flavor of driving fun and automotive seasoning."

However, in order to execute on "our vision for battery EVs," Mr. Sato said that Toyota would be "revisiting the fundamental principles of car making" in order to overcome the known drawbacks of EVs like limited driving range.

He talked up an apparent benefit of EVs, namely lower center of gravity and a more spacious interior, calling it "value that only battery EVs can offer."

"In these cars, the scenery looks completely different," he said.

But while lower center of gravity and more roomy interiors will likely be welcome by some drivers, unless automakers can figure out how to overcome "range anxiety," they may find EV adoption will wane further.

Range Anxiety

A major worry among Americans considering the wisdom of switching to an EV is range anxiety, which is the fear of driving an EV and running out of power without being able to find a charging port—and ending up stranded on the side of the road.

A recent study by the American Automobile Association (AAA) found that EV range can fall by up to a quarter when the vehicle is carrying heavy loads.

“Range anxiety remains a top reason consumers are hesitant to switch from gasoline-powered vehicles to EVs,” Adrienne Woodland, spokesperson for AAA, said in a statement.

Another recent study by consultancy Ernst & Young—in collaboration with European energy industry body Eurelectric—found that range anxiety is the second-most cited concern about switching to an EV, with a lack of public charging stations in the top spot.

The study points to an estimated need for 68.9 million chargers across the United States and Canada by 2035 to support the pace of the EV transformation.

President Joe Biden has set a goal of 50 percent of all new vehicles by 2030 being either EVs or plug-in hybrids.

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/ev-skeptic-toyota-chairman-says-people-are-finally-waking-reality-electric-vehicles

Ya gotta wonder if Trendy McFart Car gets a special rebate for being a "Pal of Pete"?

Picking and choosing the extremes aren't you? So far with the current technology and the technology on the horizon, an EV will not meet the needs for the average person regarding cost of ownership, convenience and costs for fill up and stuff.


Source to support your claims?


Source to support your claims? An apartment complex, condo units and so on will not install "electric gas stations" for every parking spot. I don't have a source but common sense. The costs to do so will be enormous and require the electric utility companies to install and/or upgrade the infrastructure to do so. Then where does the extra electric supply come from? Larger plants to make the electricity. Wind, solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric plants are very location specific. These have their place but they are not the solution.


Corporate culture is based on profits. That doesn't differ from the local Mom & Pop pizza joint. They are in business to make profit. If they don't then they go out of business. Average consumer attitude is based on how much we can afford and save. So far EV's are not hitting most of the check marks that consumers are looking for and need. EV production and sales are currently buoyed by tax payer money. This will come to an end and they will have to take on the expenses without government money. All the car makers have been saying that. The big 3 in the US have cut production of EV's. Japan, Korea have also cut back production of EV's. Why? because they don't sell as well as other models. They have publicly said so. Fact not opinion


Again picking and choosing. So are EV's less susceptible to repairs or getting into and accident? What's the cost to repair or replace a ball joint on your Tesla? Is your Tesla less susceptible of a bad ball joint? Less susceptible of issues with your suspension system (hint, your car weighs more than a similar car that has a ICE), less susceptible to tire wear? Less susceptible for steering issues? How many local shops can fix such issues? Very far less than those than can with ICE vehicles. If you need a new battery how much does that cost and how long will it be in the shop to fix it? ICE batteries can be replaced within an hour or so (including going to buy a new one at any parts store). Fact, not opinion.



Maybe in a couple months and I can do it in my driveway. I also refill the windshield wiper fluid and windshield wipers all by myself, I don't take it to the shop to do so. Why would you take it to the shop to do so? Maybe you are not mechanically proficient enough to open the cap on a bottle of windshield fluid to top it yourself. If so, I feel sorry for you.

I don't expect you to provide solid sources for your above claims. You don't do that. You just provide your personal experience and opinions and want everyone to get in line with what works for you. That is a self centered attitude.

In case you haven't, take a look at the report I referred to a few post back. It details with facts exactly the details you refer to.

I prefer a gas stove over an electric stove. Does that count?

I'd like EVs become more adopted into every day life. They have some benefits and fit into niche areas but let's face it, they cannot replace ICE anytime soon or in my lifetime. Slowly and surely we can get there but forcing the issue is not the right choice. There is a long way to go for the technology, and even a longer way to go for the infrastructure to support it.

I'd like "green technology" be more popular but again, any green technology on the table cannot compete with fossil fuels. Fact not opinion.

Green technology has been around for many decades. Decades after decades but with all the research advancements, all the government based incentives, tax breaks, rebates and all that stuff it has yet to become competitive. Fact not opinion.

It has not become a viable solution to replace current fossil fuel technology. Fact not opinion.

Do we stop working on it? Nope.

Until green technology becomes a reliable and viable solution for the masses, we still need fossil fuels to live. Cutting off that source of energy before a sustainable replacement is in place along with the infrastructure and reliable distribution to access such sources is premature and shooting ourselves in the foot.

Proof is in the pudding. Show me proof and then I'll buy in. Until then you are just blowing smoke out your ass (which is a natural source of energy so bottle it up and grill some food with it).

Sorry, Frankie... we're on opposite sides on this one. (are you shocked?!)

I would 100% prefer that the governemnt stayed the fook OUT of it. Free market will decide.

IF that were the case, electric would sink faster than the Titanic with 6 Iceberg holes in it.

The grid can't support it. Wind/solar can't provide the power to charge the batteries. And the mining of all the cobalt, copper, etc... does more harm to the environment than mining coal or drilling oil... and you can't charge the batteries without the fossil fuels.

Those are the actual factuals. Like it or not.

So why does a government subsidize a specific industry? At the highest level it because the government wants to have some level of influence. US oil and gas subsidies are tiny. Green energy and electricity are much larger. In other nations energy subsidies are very large.

In many cases energy subsidies are to drive down energy costs. The government taxes the rich and then uses that money to subsidize energy for the poor. This greatly reduces the chances of violent revolution. Countries that eliminated energy subsidies have had violent reactions.

The climate change church wants to eliminate all fossil fuel subsidies. This will lower harmful climate change emissions. These emissions will be lowered because some percentage of people will no longer be able to afford energy. Their carbon footprint will decrease. They will go back to eating dirt flavored with spices and we won’t worry about snow levels being low this year in Aspen.

In November 2021 President Biden signed the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), also known as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), authorizing an estimated $1.2 trillion investment in U.S. infrastructure, including at least $7.5 billion dedicated to supporting electric vehicle (EV) adoption through dedicated funding for vehicles and charging infrastructure. The act includes an additional $32.5 billion eligible to support EVs, plus $10.5 billion for grid upgrades and battery development. Nine months later, in August 2022, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), creating an additional $369 billion in climate investments including $47 billion eligible to support EVs (not including tax credits or loan programs).1,2

https://www.atlasevhub.com/data_story/3-billion-in-federal-funding-for-evs-to-date/

It's for the children*







*so Pedo Joe can sniff them!

You do know how that works though? You get your electricity from the power plant that feeds your substation and feeder. It may have green energy, it may not. You pay a little more so you get to feel good. That’s the service you bought!

My one year plus of ownership and use IS NOT PROOF! Thanks DMV, got it.

Oh, yabba-dabba-do!

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/tesla-model-y-was-the-worlds-best-selling-car-last-quarter/


Bucky in the next 10, 20 years and more - things, lots of things are going to change. And sooner of later this is one of them.

And it is free market - the one or two state mandates are more than a decade away. The car companies are going there sooner - going all EV. And that opinion is a fact....

It's green.
Makes me feel the same as when I pick up litter and stuff...I assume you pick up litter and stuff as well.
That's about how it feels.

If it feels good then it’s worth it. It’s just not real.

(Nobody picks up litter and stuff in San Francisco. Learned behavior)

One of these days you'll see how you were used. Maybe by the vaccinations. Maybe by your Trendy McFart Car. Maybe by your ignorance.

You really need to go back from Page 1. Take your emotions out of the equations.

Who has been providing facts from industry experts? Not you.

If someone would've asked about your experiences, then you'd have a point. NOBODY HAS DONE THAT. You live in the Utopia between your own ears.


All the way back from Page 1, Post #24...nothing has changed from you.

BuckyB93 wrote:

And you know this how? From your 6 months of owning a Telsa? EV's rank near the bottom of the list for reliability. Fact, not opinion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technologies-make-evs-less-reliable.html.

Your big picture is focused on your narrow vision. Maybe try to take the blinders off and see things outside of your small selected world.

20 cents on the dollar as compared to gas at the pump. Yep, got it. You've been beating this drum since since you bought your Tesla.

Yet you ignore the facts on the larger scale on everything else that is involved. I posted a couple links that might be of interest but you have a phobia of YouTube videos from outside sources that don't agree with your mindset on this topic.

Are you willing to provide or post some contrary facts (not opinion) on this topic or should we just trust your experience? You probably have been on Zoom meetings with some super important people that have information that we couldn't understand but it's out there if we wanted to look for it.

It's pretty vanilla... seems like I've heard this claim before...

Well, we can't all be lion tamers....

poor Brewha



Buy hey, thanks for pointing out that real world experiences pail in comparison to your research on the internets.

Shoulda stuck with torches and pitchforks...

^HA! Beat me to the punch by 8 minutes...

FULL DISCLOSURE: The energy companies paid for that study...

But if you discount the "science" because of that, you have to discount any "science" paid for by the pharmaceutical companies, right? RIGHT?!

Posted this waaaay up there.


Ya had to read it, but Trendy McFartCar had gobs to slob about it. Poor schlob still thinks I harbor ill will towards EV's. Schlub doesn't have to go to a gas station...yet doesn't think it effects him!


BAWHAHAHAAAAAA!



Suckers!

Interwebs +1

Some things that make me ponder in the statements above:

“EVs are zero emissions when powered by electricity from nuke/wind/hydro.”
Orly? No emissions to build a windmill?

“Mining lithium makes it a no go.”
I can get on board with that. Now check out sodium sulfur batteries. Those don’t need nasty ingredients.

“Energy is key…” Yes, and particularly energy density. How to charge up an apartment complex full of EVs every night. People who want mandates usually want those people to be forced to take mass transit.

“When electric motors can move giant ships, airplanes, trains…”
Ships often, and trains are always powered by electric motors. The electricity is from on board diesel powered generators, because they can run the generator at peak efficiency and because electric motors are incredibly dependable.
Thermal efficiency is important. An engine in a car runs at lower efficiency than a coal plant. Low enough that you still save energy shipping it to a home and putting it in an EV.

I have no idea what the best balance is, but mandates are usually troublesome. Let it play out based on value. Keep bureaucrats out of it.

It stands without reason you'd pick a link from a trendy magazine that writes more about chairs, wristwatches and the newest gadgets you MUST BUY. Now you know EXACTLY why I nickname you Trendy McFartCar. You own it even.

Disregard the industry experts that make automobiles, discount the engineers that develop the tech...the links are ALL in this thread. No, all you need to know is what Kim Kardashian is going to buy and run with it. Because.

Right - so if you can't win the argument, attack the one you are arguing with.

You just don't like that the car makers disagree with you right down the line.
and that you're wrong, again.

I understand why Ford wasn't in that trendy buy-buy flashy mag.




It's been a tough year for Ford dealers, and it's becoming clear some are losing patience.

Ford came in dead last in a recent survey on dealers' level of trust in their franchises, with 46% of Ford dealers surveyed by Kerrigan Advisors saying they had "no trust" in their franchise. That lack of trust aligns with the expectation of a decline in future profitability at Ford stores reflected in another portion of the 2023 Kerrigan Dealer Survey.

This breakdown in trust and pessimism about the future shouldn't come as too much of a surprise after the year Ford dealers have had.

Store owners started 2023 balancing with new investment requirements for selling electric cars against steep price cuts that hit the segment after Tesla's Elon Musk started reducing his prices. Over the summer, some Ford dealers told Insider they were starting to turn away electric Mustang Mach-E allocations, even after investing so heavily to qualify to sell those cars.

More recently, another Ford dealer told Insider he was struggling to fill orders for the electric F-150 Lightning as customers change their plans in a more unforgiving economic environment.

"By the time it was their turn to order interest rates had moved quite substantially. The price on the vehicle had moved quite substantially and not as many people ultimately ordered the Lightning," said Cameron Johnson, CEO of Magic City Auto Group, a Virginia dealership group selling mostly domestic brands.

Add on top of that the fact that dealers across the country have been ringing the alarm bell on a shift in electric car demand, and it starts to become clear why dealers for one of the leaders of the EV transition are starting to get antsy.

Ford, for its part, says it's listening to dealers and "making adjustments" based on their feedback.

"Working with our dealers, we have made recent beneficial changes to address dealer feedback and improve franchise value," a Ford spokesperson told Insider in a statement.

Ford is also among several companies that have pulled back or revised their electric car plans in recent months in response to the changing customer response to the segment.

Among the least trusted brands, Nissan takes second place while Ford's luxury brand Lincoln takes third.

Fewer EVs, more trust

Companies with less ambitious electric car plans appear to fare better among their dealers in the survey.

Topping the list of most-trusted franchises is Toyota, which has long supported a more measured electric vehicle transition and relied heavily on a hybrid lineup to meet more stringent emissions standards.

This puts Toyota ahead of the competition as the pool of green car shoppers shifts to a more price-conscious and practical buyer who is more likely to shell out extra cash for a hybrid that fits their lifestyle than an EV that comes with more compromises.

Toyota's luxury brand, Lexus, comes in second, while Subaru lands in third place.

Martin French, managing director at automotive consultancy Berylls, told Insider recently that hybrids are likely to be the bridge the auto industry needs to reach full electrification.

"I still believe full EVs are our future, but maybe just not as quickly as everyone is pushing them," French said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-losing-dealer-trust-after-rocky-year-for-ev-transition-2023-11

Again, from the NOT ME DEPARTMENT

From the NOT ME DEPARTMENT as well!




During the latest profit season, executives from the auto industry probably surprised many by announcing revisions to their EV plans.

GM gave up its production targets. Tesla's Elon Musk warned about waning EV demand. Honda and GM canceled their joint venture that would have developed more affordable EVs.

Cars are piling up in dealers' lots. Thousands of chargers are not working, and there are not enough technicians to fix them. The EV dream might be over before it really began.

"As we get further into the transformation to EV, it's a bit bumpy," GM's chief executive, Mary Barra, said at the presentation of the auto major's third-quarter results.

Mercedes-Benz CFO Harald Wilhelm was blunter:

"This is a pretty brutal space," he said on the Q3 earnings call.

"I can hardly imagine the current status quo is fully sustainable for everybody."

The status quo Wilhelm referenced features rising EV sales, which might make some wonder why the executive is unhappy about it. BloomergNEF recently reported, for instance, that global EV sales are this year set to hit a record high, topping 14 million. China will account for most of these, but Europe, where Mercedes-Benz is based, has been steadily boosting its EV fleet, too, with sales this year set to log a 25% increase, per BloombergNEF.

Sales are on the rise in the United States, too, with new EV ownerships having already passed the 1-million mark for the first time in 2023 and are on track, per BloombergNEF, to book a 40% increase from 2022.

This all sounds like good news, but even BloombergNEF admits there are some issues. Other outlets are even more vocal about these issues.

MarketWatch reported in late October that the U.S. has a broken EV charger problem, for instance. Citing data from Automotive News, which the publication took from the DoE, MarketWatch reported that 4,000 charging stations with thousands of chargers were down in early October.

Not only were thousands of chargers unavailable to drivers, but there weren't enough technicians qualified to fix them, the report noted. This is happening as the Biden administration drafts plans to install another half a million chargers across the country by 2030. That, per Automotive News, would require the training of at least 142,000 certified electricians by that year.

In Europe, meanwhile, EV subsidies are being reduced in the biggest market for the vehicles: Germany. From January next year, prospective EV buyers will receive 1,500 euro less in state support for cars that cost up to 40,000 euro. That's equal to about $1,600. Per BloombergNEF, this might affect sales negatively. Per common sense, the reduction will undoubtedly affect EV sales negatively.

There is also the issue of insurance for EVs. In the U.S., as a total, EV insurance rates are modestly higher than insurance rates for ICE cars, but it varies considerably from state to state. In the UK, EV insurance premiums have soared by two-thirds over the past year, and some insurers are refusing to provide cover for electric cars altogether.

The problem is potentially serious and might have an even greater effect on EV purchases than charger problems do. The reason insurers are not fans of EVs is the higher costs they have to incur on EV claims compared with ICE car-related claims.

First, there is the battery, which might get damaged seriously in even a minor collision. Because there is no way to check whether the battery has been damaged, insurers have had to write off EVs after minor collisions. Electronics in EVs are also much more expensive to fix than electronics in ICE cars. In short, EV coverage has become too expensive for some insurers.

With demand for EVs slower than expected by forecasters, a thin silver lining has appeared: raw material costs for some of the materials that go into an EV have declined. Unfortunately, the rest of the problems that the industry faces still need a solution.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/ev-revolution-still-happening

Also not from an Inflight or Sharper Image catalog!

20 cents to a dollar!!!!!

Not if the car makers beat them to it…..