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Obamas on Race: We've Been Treated Like the Help
victor809 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but when I see Paul and Victor courting each other, I think of my daughter's favorite move.




I do not know that movie. I am assuming he's the disney princess?
TMCTLT Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
One doesn't need to grow up with a "silver spoon" type life to know it's more difficult for others.


So there's a couple things here that are really interesting.
1 - How does acknowledging that there is a discrepancy = "racial fanning"? I'm not even advocating things change. That's what I really find funniest. I never bother advocating change... why? Well hell, because I'm currently on top. Why would I want an equal playing ground? I just am willing to acknowledge that it's an unequal playing ground. All I ever really want from people is that they act rationally... rationally usually involves not flying into a fit when anyone points out that some facets of society have it worse than others.

2 - You believe that pointing out that your dad, a high school drop-out, working at a GM plant alongside black workers is proof that you can make a go of it regardless of skin color. So, I think you're part right. Sure, anyone can get a job and work, and maybe make a living, you're correct. But I'd be curious to know how many of those black people your dad was working alongside were high school dropouts. My point is never that people can't make it. My point is simply that some people have to jump through more hoops than others to make it the same distance.




Yet another load of crap....let me go a bit further to draw a distinct difference in my Dad the high school dropout...he dropped out to take responsible CARE for the family he started, TOO many black fathers BAIL on their Responsibility and THERE is your BIG difference in many cases.
tailgater Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I'm not sure I understand? Is your problem with him stating that at times in his life people assumed that a well dressed black man was the waiter or valet? Or is your problem with him calling waiters/valets "the help"?

I'm gonna include the link I'm assuming you referred to, since you neglected to:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-reflect-personal-incidents-racial-discrimination/story?id=27636612



Great article.
Seems the first lady had her share if issues at Target.

"Even as the first lady," she told the magazine, "during the wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf."

Of course, if I couldn't reach something on a high shelf, and a wookie was conveniently near by...
victor809 Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
[/h]



Yet another load of crap....let me go a bit further to draw a distinct difference in my Dad the high school dropout...he dropped out to take responsible CARE for the family he started, TOO many black fathers BAIL on their Responsibility and THERE is your BIG difference in many cases.


I think you missed my point completely.
Abrignac Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
victor809 wrote:
I do not know that movie. I am assuming he's the disney princess?



The Lion King. Would you like a copy for Christmas? I could send you a Simba and a Nyla to hold while watching it. Amazon Prime can have it there Saturday.

delta1 Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,807
I'm just glad that I was finally allowed to eat, shop and stay at all establishments in this state, marry a white girl and buy a house in this town. Now, if I can only get some jerks to stop commenting about my eyes and telling me to "go back where I came from" I'll be happy as heck.
victor809 Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
The Lion King. Would you like a copy for Christmas? I could send you a Simba and a Nyla to hold while watching it. Amazon Prime can have it there Saturday.



Huh. I think I saw that movie once.

So nyla's the disney princess?
TMCTLT Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Abrignac wrote:
I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but when I see Paul and Victor courting each other, I think of my daughter's favorite move.





It's nice your so enameled by it Anthony....but you can have him.....Really!!! fog bastage

And don't let him fool ya Victor, it's his daughters favorite Because Daddy is always Ready to watch it HIS favorite movie
cacman Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
So have we decided to install a lawn jockey in front of the White House?
mikey1597 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 05-18-2007
Posts: 14,162
Better not be a black one, might get mistaken for a professional and get handed some keys.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
He's acting stupidly...

Someone PLEASE remind him that he IS the hired help!

He can rest with benefits in a couple of years...until then...back out to a golf course and quit bitchin...KENYAN KING!
frankj1 Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
delta1 wrote:
I'm just glad that I was finally allowed to eat, shop and stay at all establishments in this state, marry a white girl and buy a house in this town. Now, if I can only get some jerks to stop commenting about my eyes and telling me to "go back where I came from" I'll be happy as heck.

there will always be jerks.
How restricted were things for your family?
Abrignac Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
teedubbya wrote:
they need to just get over it. It's not as if their great or great great grand parents were raped, beaten, killed or had their children taken from them for the same treatment. Its not like their great or grand parents were lynched or not able to go where white folk did...... they now have the vote and their kind (an afican) as prez..... why can't they just get over it? It was a long time ago. They just need to STFU.


Not to confuse the issue, but I've always wondered why only whites, none of whom ever owned a slave, are vilified as the perpetrator. Perhaps those who feel aggrieved should the sue members of their own race, but of a different tribe/clan/village, who ACTUALLY captured them and sold them to the slave traders?


Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
I've never owned a slave, and I have a black friend that I've only asked once if I could touch his hair.....
jetblasted Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
The slave-trade ships were built by Yankees, therefore they have the higher moral ground.

Um, wait ... (?)
victor809 Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Abrignac wrote:
Not to confuse the issue, but I've always wondered why only whites, none of whom ever owned a slave, are vilified as the perpetrator. Perhaps those who feel aggrieved should the sue members of their own race, but of a different tribe/clan/village, who ACTUALLY captured them and sold them to the slave traders?


Think


I think this is largely misdirection. I see a few assumptions which are incorrect here...
1 - You really could only blame the tribe selling the slaves for the first generation of slaves. They were not responsible for the institutionalized slavery we had in the US during that period. Blacks were not people. There was nothing they could do to be considered people. Think about it, if we were enslaving other whites, at least they would have a chance at becoming a person. If they bought their freedom, or escaped, or whatever... they would be given standard rights any other white had. However, in a fit of absolute efficiency, we simply designated an entire race as slaves. It made it very easy to keep track of.

2 - You assume that whites, who never owned a slave, are being vilified as perpetrators of slavery. I don't think that's a major problem. I've never been blamed for slavery... have you? I think the common complaint is current ongoing issues surrounding race. Many of these issues probably have their roots in the generations of slavery our country committed, but it's not the same thing.

ZRX1200 Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
President Benson thankfully gets ANOTHER 17 day Hawaiian vacation to ponder the struggle.
mikey1597 Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 05-18-2007
Posts: 14,162
Food for thought:






The most comprehensive analysis of shipping records over the course of the slave trade is the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, edited by professors David Eltis and David Richardson. (While the editors are careful to say that all of their figures are estimates, I believe that they are the best estimates that we have, the proverbial "gold standard" in the field of the study of the slave trade.) Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.


And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That's right: a tiny percentage.


In fact, the overwhelming percentage of the African slaves were shipped directly to the Caribbean and South America; Brazil received 4.86 million Africans alone! Some scholars estimate that another 60,000 to 70,000 Africans ended up in the United States after touching down in the Caribbean first, so that would bring the total to approximately 450,000 Africans who arrived in the United States over the course of the slave trade.




By: Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Posted: Jan. 6 2014 12:56 AM
Abrignac Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
victor809 wrote:
I think this is largely misdirection. I see a few assumptions which are incorrect here...
1 - You really could only blame the tribe selling the slaves for the first generation of slaves. They were not responsible for the institutionalized slavery we had in the US during that period. Blacks were not people. There was nothing they could do to be considered people. Think about it, if we were enslaving other whites, at least they would have a chance at becoming a person. If they bought their freedom, or escaped, or whatever... they would be given standard rights any other white had. However, in a fit of absolute efficiency, we simply designated an entire race as slaves. It made it very easy to keep track of.

2 - You assume that whites, who never owned a slave, are being vilified as perpetrators of slavery. I don't think that's a major problem. I've never been blamed for slavery... have you? I think the common complaint is current ongoing issues surrounding race. Many of these issues probably have their roots in the generations of slavery our country committed, but it's not the same thing.




Let me state it a different way. Slavery as we know in the US, which is the topic is du jour ad nauseam, is based upon slavery that existed from colonial times through the late 1800's in the US. I haven't met any 150 year old former slave "owners" so for the sake of argument I'm assuming they are all pushing up daisy's.

Absolutely they were treated improperly, and that's putting it mildly. But, at some point we as a nation need to get past it. Many many people were mistreated. And yes some worse than others. But, to keep bringing it up as if it just ended last week serves but one purpose. It generates income for the "civil rights" leaders. Without it, they cease to be relevant. Just how far can the victim card be played?

We mustn't forget that Japanese were interred during WWII. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese died driving railroad spikes coast to coast. Twenty million Jews perished in the Holocaust. But, as a whole these ethnic groups have moved on and prospered.

Yet, I seem to recall a few weeks ago a certain congressman was once again on the floor of the house talking about reparations for descendents of slaves. Reparations that people who never owned or are descendents of people who never owned slaves would have to pay through taxes collected from them.

So if someone wants to understand racism, perhaps they should ask why people feel the way they do. The answer may be surprising.
ZRX1200 Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIRUSfZkEq4
jetblasted Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
^ I thought that was common knowledge ^

The Southern White Elite Upper Class saw themselves above not only slaves, but also common white folk, or, the cracker people.

Not too much difference between the rich folk & middle class of today, eh ?

Just for fun, if y'all weren't aware, Google Irish Slaves.
Abrignac Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
jetblasted wrote:
^ I thought that was common knowledge ^

The Southern White Elite Upper Class saw themselves above not only slaves, but also common white folk, or, the cracker people.

Not too much difference between the rich folk & middle class of today, eh ?

Just for fun, if y'all weren't aware, Google Irish Slaves.


Add sharecroppers to that as well.
delta1 Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,807
Relations today are a product of all that happened before. Just as individuals have memories, groups of people and societies do also. Personal experiences are handed down through generations, from parents to their children and then their children. Some of the uglier acts of discrimination in our nation's history by the majority against minorities, especially when economic conditions were bad, are not written and discussed in the history books that are part of the public education.

Many of the laws promoting discrimination against specific peoples: restrictions on immigration, marriage, property ownership, citizenship, voting, taxation, have been repealed over the years, especially after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. (1964!!!...only 50 years ago) Many of us were alive then and had lived as second class partial persons/citizens before that was the law of the land. We also knew that it was by no means unanimous nor supported by a large number, almost half, of all Americans. We knew it was vigorously opposed in many parts of the country. Imagine knowing that nearly every other person in your country didn't want you to have the same rights and opportunities he had.

When discriminatory laws were repealed, the power and wealth imbalances that flourished during their existence did not default to an equality among all. The hatred that existed, on both sides, did not magically melt away. The people in power who proposed, passed and supported the laws of legalized bigotry and their progeny who perpetuated them did not disappear nor did their feelings and beliefs about the minorities subject to the oppression change. Those who were denied equal opportunity and basic human rights for long periods in our history and then freed or declared equal by law were equal in name only.

It is much easier to say let's forget the past when one's path has been made easier by it, than for those who were hindered and shackled by it. Written by a member of the Model Minority.
frankj1 Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
delta1 wrote:
Relations today are a product of all that happened before. Just as individuals have memories, groups of people and societies do also. Personal experiences are handed down through generations, from parents to their children and then their children. Some of the uglier acts of discrimination in our nation's history by the majority against minorities, especially when economic conditions were bad, are not written and discussed in the history books that are part of the public education.

Many of the laws promoting discrimination against specific peoples: restrictions on immigration, marriage, property ownership, citizenship, voting, taxation, have been repealed over the years, especially after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. (1964!!!...only 50 years ago) Many of us were alive then and had lived as second class partial persons/citizens before that was the law of the land. We also knew that it was by no means unanimous nor supported by a large number, almost half, of all Americans. We knew it was vigorously opposed in many parts of the country. Imagine knowing that nearly every other person in your country didn't want you to have the same rights and opportunities he had.

When discriminatory laws were repealed, the power and wealth imbalances that flourished during their existence did not default to an equality among all. The hatred that existed, on both sides, did not magically melt away. The people in power who proposed, passed and supported the laws of legalized bigotry and their progeny who perpetuated them did not disappear nor did their feelings and beliefs about the minorities subject to the oppression change. Those who were denied equal opportunity and basic human rights for long periods in our history and then freed or declared equal by law were equal in name only.

It is much easier to say let's forget the past when one's path has been made easier by it, than for those who were hindered and shackled by it. Written by a member of the Model Minority.

eloquence defined.
To repress the discussion is to assure we never quite get to the point where the discussion is a moot point.
teedubbya Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yup
cacman Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
All this talk of discrimination, yet no one mentions what we did to the Native Americans. They had, and still have it a lot worse. So the rest can just get over it move on. I don't hear the Jews screaming antisemitism every time something doesn't go their way. The American guberment offered a public apology for the slave practices that happened almost 300yrs ago, including cash payouts. The Indians got reservations & casinos, the rest got cash & welfare. What more do you want.
MACS Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,809
If everyone would just ignore Victor when he pulls his contrarian bullsh*t, he might stop doing it.

Nah. That's just wishful thinking.
teedubbya Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Our country isn't even 300 years old.
victor809 Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You wish for too much MACS. Some people can't stand it if the world isn't their personal echo chamber.
delta1 Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,807
I wish that we, as a country, could move on and accept and relate to one another on equal terms. I try to do that in my personal life, and consider myself blessed for the life I've enjoyed. Can't think of any other place in the world where someone like me, with below average looks and physical abilities, barely average intellect (on a good day) and peasant upbringing can live in the comfort and luxury I do. Although not wealthy in material measures, I am very happy with my quality of life.

Wishful thinking.......

while also thinking that "the rest can just get over it and move on" will happen at about the same time people stop yelling "take back America."
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