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Last post 2 months ago by Gene363. 108 replies replies.
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What do you concealed or open carry?
USNGunner Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
ZRX1200 wrote:
Gunner, you’re assuming I wear an external holster without a retention strap...... we’re an open carry state and have seen VERY few issues. Actually only one I can think of and that was in a Walmart bathroom.


No, not assuming anything. Just stating my thoughts and observations. [thumbsup]

USNGunner Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
Our CHP instructor talked us out of a 5 or 6 shot wheel gun. He was drilling home the fact that you have be aware of what is beyond your target before pulling the trigger. He said that with the adrenalin rush, statistically you can count on one hit per 5 or 6 rounds fired. He stated that FBI statistics show that law enforcement only hit their target 14% of the time. I remember a incident that happened in Philly several years back. Four law enforcement officers opened fire on an armed suspect at about 15 to 20 feet. Out of close to 60 rounds fired, they hit the suspect 5 times. That's less then one in ten.

David


Dude, cops, as a group, are the worst shooters in the world. Most aren't gun guys. I was training with a bunch of air marshalls and frankly expected to be outclassed. Nope. Not even close. I shot way better than 85% of them. Which frankly I found a bit disturbing.

I actually told the popo here one day when they were out at our range, if there's ever a hostage situation and I'm the hostage, go get my wife, I don't want you guys taking the shot. BigGrin

Didn't win me any fans, but it's true. ThumpUp
USNGunner Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Pudding Mittens wrote:
They're also much more fragile than something like a Glock.

You can drop a revolver from a few feet up onto a hard surface and, if it lands the wrong way, it can bind up the cylinder and require a gunsmith to fix. There's really no way to drop a Glock that disables it. Heck, they've dropped them off buildings and out of helicopters onto concrete in tests, and the gun continued to work fine.

Revolvers also have a high bore axis making them harder to aim and control during recoil, so longer times between shots, usually have sights far inferior to semi-autos for defensive use, and many other issues. Plus, you know, the schitt low capacity and long reload times compared to magazines.

Revolvers are very overrated.
.


That simply isn't correct. A cheap ass import maybe. Not a good quality gun. Freaking fan boys. ThumbDown
teedubbya Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
I wasn’t gonna say anything but I agree USN. A quality revolver just works, every time. The only disadvantage to me is capacity.
teedubbya Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
If you pull the trigger and you hear a click not a boom pull it again.
danmdevries Online
#56 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 12,707
I shoot my wheelguns well. And I like them.

But i do carry a semiauto and shoot it well, too.

But I like revolvers more cause I think they're neat. I really want one of the new Kimber revolvers. Those are some gorgeous pieces.
ZRX1200 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 51,816
My brother has a 5 shot Taurus he got (new) because he’d thrown $5 in a video poker machine as a joke and won $300 and figured it was then a free gun. I’ll be damned if that thing just doesn’t “feel right” in your hand. I like revolvers a lot to shoot. Don’t care for how the “print” to carry.
KingoftheCove Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 6,330
Yah, especially this one

https://www.kimberamerica.com/k6s-da-sa-3-1

Mr. Jones Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 12,266
USGunner

What the hell is a "plate carrier"

How the heck did you attain T.W.O. BROWNING HIGH POWERS? (Is either one an Argentinian knockoff?...handled plenty of them in my day)
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
Jones knocked up an Argentinian?
Gene363 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 24,881
USNGunner wrote:
Dude, cops, as a group, are the worst shooters in the world. Most aren't gun guys. I was training with a bunch of air marshalls and frankly expected to be outclassed. Nope. Not even close. I shot way better than 85% of them. Which frankly I found a bit disturbing.

I actually told the popo here one day when they were out at our range, if there's ever a hostage situation and I'm the hostage, go get my wife, I don't want you guys taking the shot. BigGrin

Didn't win me any fans, but it's true. ThumpUp


I've seen this at our local ranges. One Sheriffs deputy was missing a 3x5 foot plywood backstop let alone the target at about ten feet. He'd be better off not carrying a gun. We do have some "gun guy" police that can shoot very well though.

On similar note, Fort Gordon is close by so some soldiers come to the local range, not all of them can shoot either. Probably communications and cyber warriors the base is training from all service branches.
Gene363 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 24,881
Revolvers! So old school to this 70 year old. Sarcasm

6 Ways Revolvers Might Not Be Obsolete...Maybe. MAYBE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJb11-_ipgk&feature=emb_title
USNGunner Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Mr. Jones wrote:
USGunner

What the hell is a "plate carrier"


It carries body armor "plates" Mine are ceramic swimmer cut. Very comfy, very easy to move and shoot in. The ones in the cars are slicks for a lower profile if I'm in transit. The ones at home are molle and are loaded up.

Quote:
How the heck did you attain T.W.O. BROWNING HIGH POWERS? (Is either one an Argentinian knockoff?...handled plenty of them in my day)


Diligence. ThumpUp

I have one Argentinian police pistol that is my drop gun.

The rest all are all Brownings. I've got 4 or 5 actually. A couple of T models. I love those things.
Mr. Jones Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 12,266
Sounds like that "drop gun" is an INTERPOL NIGHTMARE PIECE...that will pop so many hits on the S.A. computers it'll make a fan spinning noise...
Better hope the guy your framing is a wanted "S. A. Nat."...
USNGunner Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Gene363 wrote:
I've seen this at our local ranges. One Sheriffs deputy was missing a 3x5 foot plywood backstop let alone the target at about ten feet. He'd be better off not carrying a gun. We do have some "gun guy" police that can shoot very well though.

On similar note, Fort Gordon is close by so some soldiers come to the local range, not all of them can shoot either. Probably communications and cyber warriors the base is training from all service branches.


Yep. Not all are in that group, there are some good shooters. But yeah the .mil is the same. Not all soldiers are infantry and trained up. In the Navy fleet guys qualify once a year. 30 rounds. That's the only time most of them get to shoot unless they're in the sport or a job requiring it.

LOL. Like me and my guys. [thumbsup]
Whistlebritches Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,090
Someone,can't remember who,mentioned adding aftermarket sights on a self defense weapon.IMHO do not do this.....as a matter of fact I tell most shooters to either purchase a sightless weapon or remove them altogether.Learn to shoot a pistol as an extension of your arms.......always eyes on the target not trying to focus in on sights.Anyone that has ever shot at night can affirm this....I don't care how much they glow or light up,good luck finding them especially in a high stress situation.


There.....dropped my .02 for what it's worth
Speyside Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 10,013
Up to what distance can someone become reasonably accurate with a pistol if they practice enough? Just a general idea as this is quite subjective I assume.
MACS Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 68,140
USNGunner wrote:
Yep. Not all are in that group, there are some good shooters. But yeah the .mil is the same. Not all soldiers are infantry and trained up. In the Navy fleet guys qualify once a year. 30 rounds. That's the only time most of them get to shoot unless they're in the sport or a job requiring it.

LOL. Like me and my guys. [thumbsup]


Or say, an MACS that's a 0812?
KingoftheCove Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 6,330
Speyside wrote:
Up to what distance can someone become reasonably accurate with a pistol if they practice enough? Just a general idea as this is quite subjective I assume.

Hickok45 can hit a gong, with a LCR .22LR, at 75 yards................heh!
Brewha Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,167
teedubbya wrote:
Wesson/cz is a great company. Kansas City Kansas stamped right on them proving MAGA right.

You just had to, right......Crying
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 51,816
I can hit a 2 liter bottle at 50 yards with about any pistol I touch.

I could hit a silhouette target at 75 pretty comfortably the issue you run into at distance is Kentucky windage unless they’re +P.

An old codger gave me some hot .357 loads once to try out, we were hitting 2 liter bottles @100 yards with zero drop. There was also a 3’ flame shooting out the muzzle too.
Brewha Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,167
You look like the kind of man that keeps his hand frozen when he fires.....
8trackdisco Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 52,323
Speyside wrote:
I concealed carry a FN Fnx-45.


Usually a gun.
engletl Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,408
KingoftheCove wrote:
Hickok45 can hit a gong, with a LCR .22LR, at 75 yards................heh!

Jerry Miculek and Instructor Zero both have YouTube videos of even longer...talking 300 to iirc 1000 yards

teedubbya Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
Lol sorry brewha
USNGunner Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
MACS wrote:
Or say, an MACS that's a 0812?


Or one of those.
USNGunner Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
I shot a quarter off the top of a target stand at 25 yards with an issue 1911A1. That shot won me a keg from our Weapons Officer. He was an alternate on the Olympic team. Great shot but he missed that one. I didn't.

****** made me find the quarter on the berm before he would concede the bet and pay off, I still have it. ThumpUp

USNGunner Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Speyside wrote:
Up to what distance can someone become reasonably accurate with a pistol if they practice enough? Just a general idea as this is quite subjective I assume.


The real question, is to do what?

Slow fire bullseye and combat/self defense shooting are two completely different beasties. But the mantra "aim small shoot small" exists for a reason.

You can get really good with pistols, it just takes practice. I have shot 1911's enough over the years that on a 20 yard silhouette with my sights taped over I can keep all the rounds center mass. That's muscle memory and takes a buttload of shooting to accomplish.

I have done that with Beretta 92's and Hi-Powers as well. Same basic grip angle.

Front sight, breathing and trigger control is everything in pistol shooting. It's easy, you just gotta do it.
Speyside Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 10,013
Self defense Gunner, now that I have retired I will have the time to practice. The incident with my nephew shook me to the core. I am wondering what is a realistic distance to practice from and how does one practice for self defense. If the day comes I have to shoot I wanna drop the Bastide. When we again can travel, I will take a course or courses. Advice on what courses to take would be appreciated. I am reasonably accurate target shooting up to 80 feet. I can group say 8 out of 10. Per say I don't aim. At various distances I have taught myself where to shoot. I have always had good hand to eye coordination. It takes a little longer for me to regroup for my next shot using the pistol I use, but smaller guns feel to small/wrong in my hands. I am a big guy with big hands. I have recently started doing something kind of like mindfulness, though it is more like empty mind. My groupings are tighter and it's more like 9 out of ten. I am my most intent on my first shot. I want it to be a kill shot. Three to the heart, 3 to the stomach, and 3 to the head. 10nth shot eyes closed, see the target without seeing the target, I am at about 50%. This needs significant improvement.
USNGunner Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Most defensive shootings with a handgun are within 15 yards, most are at contact ranges. Drawing from concealment, distancing from an attacker so as to be able to present the weapon and engage are just as important and folks rarely practice that.

Never practice drawing from concealment at home with ammo in the same room, let alone in the gun. ThumpUp
ZRX1200 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 51,816
Dummy guns are cheap.

Much cheaper than an AD can cost....
ZRX1200 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 51,816
Spey a mid sized revolver might be the best bet to fit you paw and conceal. Most sporting goods stores will let you handle sidearms, you have to have something you’re comfortable to fire. Revolvers leave less to go wrong for sure IMO and I’m a auto guy (but I also don’t have monster hands).
edin508 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2012
Posts: 4,616
engletl wrote:
Jerry Miculek and Instructor Zero both have YouTube videos of even longer...talking 300 to iirc 1000 yards


Jerry is not human.
Whistlebritches Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,090
USNGunner wrote:
Most defensive shootings with a handgun are within 15 yards, most are at contact ranges. Drawing from concealment, distancing from an attacker so as to be able to present the weapon and engage are just as important and folks rarely practice that.

Never practice drawing from concealment at home with ammo in the same room, let alone in the gun. ThumpUp


Vince you would be correct but overwhelming evidence suggest most shootings occur inside 10 FEET.I see guys practicing all the time with their pocket sized handguns with targets set at 25 yards.You will never be proficient in self defense doing this.I've surprised many people when I placed them in front of a silhouette at 3 FEET and told them to draw,making sure you keep the weapon close to your body to prevent it being taken away from you,and fire two rounds center mass.I've got some crazy looks .........that being said I have seen some miss the silhouette entirely......AT 3 FEET.However most do strike target but without some instruction they are no where near center mass.This is extremely important as seen in the graph in the link below biggest majority of officers killed in gunfights were 0-5 FEET..........That's what we call in my previous line of work "UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL".I hope none of you are ever have to realize just how stressful an encounter this close can be but I would suggest to all "PRACTICE FOR REAL WORLD" and "always be vigilant distancing yourself from suspected danger.I can't remember the exact time but an attacker with a knife at 7 FEET can kill you before you clear leather.........and thats from a situation your sensing danger.Think about this coming at you out of the blue.



https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/what-do-fbi-statistics-really-say-about-gunfights/

Here's some decent CQB advice.......I don't agree with the laser,most are going to forget they even have it.Skip the laser and learn the skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s8t_5VT06M
USNGunner Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Whistlebritches wrote:
Vince you would be correct but overwhelming evidence suggest most shootings occur inside 10 FEET.I see guys practicing all the time with their pocket sized handguns with targets set at 25 yards.You will never be proficient in self defense doing this.I've surprised many people when I placed them in front of a silhouette at 3 FEET and told them to draw,making sure you keep the weapon close to your body to prevent it being taken away from you,and fire two rounds center mass.I've got some crazy looks .........that being said I have seen some miss the silhouette entirely......AT 3 FEET.However most do strike target but without some instruction they are no where near center mass.This is extremely important as seen in the graph in the link below biggest majority of officers killed in gunfights were 0-5 FEET..........That's what we call in my previous line of work "UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL".I hope none of you are ever have to realize just how stressful an encounter this close can be but I would suggest to all "PRACTICE FOR REAL WORLD" and "always be vigilant distancing yourself from suspected danger.I can't remember the exact time but an attacker with a knife at 7 FEET can kill you before you clear leather.........and thats from a situation your sensing danger.Think about this coming at you out of the blue.


Your overthinking it buddy. "You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight." A pocket pistol? Yeah, 5 yards. Max. The PPk and PP's have the absolute worst sights, but at point range they're fine. I think of that style pistol as more of a remote knife honestly. And I'm not a huge fan of those for new folks either. They are harder to manipulate and shoot. The last thing a new shooter should be fighting.

But those aren't what I'm talking about.

If a shooter can keep their shots in a the coke bottle (fletc target), or a 6 inch circle out to 15 or even 25 yards, 3 feet is nothing. Good fundamentals will kick in under duress if ingrained. They will also develop familiarity with the controls and reloads. Basics. Make those solid first.

The personal contact range is why I mentioned drawing, weapons retention and distancing. UCQB is a separate skill set that one needs some exposure to to do well. Using the weapon to get some clearance and the indexing isn't hard, but it's not a natural instinct for most folks. It takes a trainer that actually knows what they're doing. Which pretty much eliminates most of yahoos on youtube.

Starting folks out up close makes for sloppy handling and shooting in my experience.

Build a solid foundation, then build on that. A good toolbox doesn't just have a jewelers screwdriver in it. Get a good pistol. Get a case (1000) rounds of ammunition, and at least 6 magazines, number them. Practice. Go out and shoot all the ammo. Slowly, aimed. Worry about shot placement, not speed. Speed will come. Buy more ammunition.

Put up 2 to 5 targets next to each other. 15 yards. Put a small dessert paper plate or 3x5 index card on each. Shoot one round at a time on each plate/card and swivel/move to the next (depends on range and backstop). Keep working back and forth until all your mags are gone. Focus on keeping a good group on each target. Evaluate the groups and do it again.

Repeat. This is a great drill. When you're shooting raggedy holes? Get a timer and speed it up. Buy more ammunition.

There are a lot of great drills out there. Get out and shoot is the biggest thing.
USNGunner Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Speyside wrote:
Self defense Gunner, now that I have retired I will have the time to practice. The incident with my nephew shook me to the core. I am wondering what is a realistic distance to practice from and how does one practice for self defense. If the day comes I have to shoot I wanna drop the Bastide. When we again can travel, I will take a course or courses. Advice on what courses to take would be appreciated. I am reasonably accurate target shooting up to 80 feet. I can group say 8 out of 10. Per say I don't aim. At various distances I have taught myself where to shoot. I have always had good hand to eye coordination. It takes a little longer for me to regroup for my next shot using the pistol I use, but smaller guns feel to small/wrong in my hands. I am a big guy with big hands. I have recently started doing something kind of like mindfulness, though it is more like empty mind. My groupings are tighter and it's more like 9 out of ten. I am my most intent on my first shot. I want it to be a kill shot. Three to the heart, 3 to the stomach, and 3 to the head. 10nth shot eyes closed, see the target without seeing the target, I am at about 50%. This needs significant improvement.


Lose the kill shot vernacular. You were shooting to "stop" the attacker. Sounds stupid but those first words will make or break a self-defense vs manslaughter/murder case. Some DA's are jack asses.
tonygraz Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 13,011
Wallet - concealed.
Whistlebritches Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,090
USNGunner wrote:
Your overthinking it buddy. "You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight." A pocket pistol? Yeah, 5 yards. Max. The PPk and PP's have the absolute worst sights, but at point range they're fine. I think of that style pistol as more of a remote knife honestly. And I'm not a huge fan of those for new folks either. They are harder to manipulate and shoot. The last thing a new shooter should be fighting.

But those aren't what I'm talking about.

If a shooter can keep their shots in a the coke bottle (fletc target), or a 6 inch circle out to 15 or even 25 yards, 3 feet is nothing. Good fundamentals will kick in under duress if ingrained. They will also develop familiarity with the controls and reloads. Basics. Make those solid first.

The personal contact range is why I mentioned drawing, weapons retention and distancing. UCQB is a separate skill set that one needs some exposure to to do well. Using the weapon to get some clearance and the indexing isn't hard, but it's not a natural instinct for most folks. It takes a trainer that actually knows what they're doing. Which pretty much eliminates most of yahoos on youtube.

Starting folks out up close makes for sloppy handling and shooting in my experience.

Build a solid foundation, then build on that. A good toolbox doesn't just have a jewelers screwdriver in it. Get a good pistol. Get a case (1000) rounds of ammunition, and at least 6 magazines, number them. Practice. Go out and shoot all the ammo. Slowly, aimed. Worry about shot placement, not speed. Speed will come. Buy more ammunition.

Put up 2 to 5 targets next to each other. 15 yards. Put a small dessert paper plate or 3x5 index card on each. Shoot one round at a time on each plate/card and swivel/move to the next (depends on range and backstop). Keep working back and forth until all your mags are gone. Focus on keeping a good group on each target. Evaluate the groups and do it again.

Repeat. This is a great drill. When you're shooting raggedy holes? Get a timer and speed it up. Buy more ammunition.

There are a lot of great drills out there. Get out and shoot is the biggest thing.


I get what your saying Vince but if a guy is going to carry concealed I would hope he/she is already past the level you're talking about.I would expect them to already have attained the skill to hit a pie plate out to 20-30 feet.If they haven't they shouldn't go concealed just yet......good way to get your weapon taken from you and lose your life.

I usually assume someone has these skills already......I started shooting pistol when I was 7 or 8 YOA and I realize many didn't but I forget.LOL

Personally I have never taught anyone the art of the pistol beyond 30 feet.I tell them if they want to target shoot get the proper weapon and practice,practice,practice.If you wanna learn some real world self defense tactics put your handcannon away,go grab your wifes .380 and lets start there.We'll work our way up to your 44 snubby
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,324
USNGunner wrote:
Lose the kill shot vernacular. You were shooting to "stop" the attacker. Sounds stupid but those first words will make or break a self-defense vs manslaughter/murder case. Some DA's are jack asses.


Agreed 1000%. You shoot to neutralize the threat. Never to kill. Make that statement and the DA will have a field day. Our CHP instructor recommended stock black pistols for self defense. He said that even a trigger job could allow the DA to paint you to a jury as someone out looking for a kill. He said also to stay away from pink, blue, etc. handguns, as the DA could paint you as someone not serious about the deadly responsibility of carrying a gun, and that you considered your gun a toy, or fashion accessory. He also warned against "zombie" paint schemes and "zombie" ammo, as the DA could tell the jury that you where a nut job out looking to shoot zombies. Also, no engravings of statements like "this is your unlucky day", etc. I've seen a few guns where the owners had statements like this engraved on the end of the barrel of their carry gun, so that it could be read by who ever the gun was pointed at. Again, such an engraving would give the DA a field day.

David
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,324
Question for those who carry for self defense. Do you have a membership in any of the legal defense groups, and if so, who? Our CHP instructor said that a good shoot without DA chargers will cost you $10k minimum. If the DA presses charges and it goes to trial, you're looking at $100k to $300k. Seems that a $100 - $200 yearly subscription would be well worth it, if the unthinkable where to happen.

David
Pudding Mittens Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-15-2016
Posts: 1,248
USNGunner wrote:
That simply isn't correct. A cheap ass import maybe. Not a good quality gun. Freaking fan boys. ThumbDown

It's correct. Ask any experienced gunsmith who's been around long enough to have seen it happen. However, it's very rare, and not something I'd really worry about.

teedubbya wrote:
If you pull the trigger and you hear a click not a boom pull it again.

Doing this is usually a good thing, but sometimes is very bad because it keeps the failed round INSIDE the gun. If it's a "hangfire" round (delayed-detonation round), you get a click, you pull the trigger again and the next round fires, however the hangfire round is still inside the cylinder but is now no longer aligned with the barrel. If it detonates then, a very violent explosion will occur with a bullet having nowhere to go. Gun destruction and serious hand and/or face/eye injury are possible.

Semi-auto failed rounds ("clicks") are handled by semi-auto malf-clearance techniques ("tap-rack-bang" and if necessary "lock-rip-work") which semi-auto owners should practice heavily till they're automatic and instinctual. These are designed to get the failed round OUT OF the gun and AWAY from the shooter as quickly as possible. As a result, hangfire rounds are likely to detonate harmlessly in open air, either falling on the way to the ground or while on the ground. With no pressure containment, the detonation is harmless (this has been abundantly tested, you have a bullet with near-zero velocity and brass case fragments that are pretty harmlessly-slow).

I'm not ragging on revolvers here though, they are great guns and are the BEST choice for a large percentage of people and they were the standard handgun of the world for a long, long time and put many, many people six feet under VERY effectively.
.
teedubbya Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
I don't think "hangfire" rounds are all that common especially in factory ammo. But yea that wouldn't be good. That said semiautos (which are my preference) can foul for many reasons and while I know how to clear mine all quickly just pulling the trigger again would be preferable if under duress for most people no matter how much they practice. Its hard to practice under duress but doable I suppose.

I carry a cz75 and no longer own a wheel gun. But I am thinking of getting another just for fun.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 4,175
Learned about hangfires in one of the classes. Very next time on the range, had a round misfire which led to a minute of me mentally challenging the weapon.

Click?!?! WTF you mean click? All right you tricky fugger. I'm watching you. Watchya gonna do now? (While pointed downrange as is right and proper)
madspackler Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 03-07-2000
Posts: 3,349
Concealed - Taurus G2C
Open - Browning 9mm inherited from FIL
MACS Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 68,140
Gunner can attest to the "duress" of the Navy's practical weapons course. They have 3 stages for qualification if you carry as part of your job, which is unlike the familiarization fire of guys on ships that carry only for topside watches.

MA's and GM's have to do the Navy qualification course - timed, 48 total rounds at 3 yds, 7 yds, 15 yds and 25 yds. 2 rounds in 4 seconds, failure to stop 2 rounds in 7 seconds, and reload 2 rounds, reload, then 2 more rounds in 10 seconds. Then from the 25 it's 6 standing, reload, transition to 6 kneeling in 45 seconds.

The practical weapons course. 18 total rounds, timed, at 6 different targets at 6 different distances in a variety of positions from standing, kneeling and prone, around barricades or through 'windows'... after sprinting 100 yds and having an instructor yelling at you the whole time.

Then finally the "night fire". 18 rds at a 15 yard target in very low light conditions - ours was a rotating red light.
USNGunner Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
MACS wrote:
Gunner can attest to the "duress" of the Navy's practical weapons course. They have 3 stages for qualification if you carry as part of your job, which is unlike the familiarization fire of guys on ships that carry only for topside watches.

MA's and GM's have to do the Navy qualification course - timed, 48 total rounds at 3 yds, 7 yds, 15 yds and 25 yds. 2 rounds in 4 seconds, failure to stop 2 rounds in 7 seconds, and reload 2 rounds, reload, then 2 more rounds in 10 seconds. Then from the 25 it's 6 standing, reload, transition to 6 kneeling in 45 seconds.

The practical weapons course. 18 total rounds, timed, at 6 different targets at 6 different distances in a variety of positions from standing, kneeling and prone, around barricades or through 'windows'... after sprinting 100 yds and having an instructor yelling at you the whole time.

Then finally the "night fire". 18 rds at a 15 yard target in very low light conditions - ours was a rotating red light.


Yeah, I taught SSET and SSEW at FTC San Diego in the 90's. That was some really good stuff. As staff, we came out there as gun-slinging animals. Holy cow the round counts and experience we rang up. I loved it!


USNGunner Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Pudding Mittens wrote:
It's correct. Ask any experienced gunsmith who's been around long enough to have seen it happen. However, it's very rare, and not something I'd really worry about.
.


No it isn't. See your last sentence. ThumbDown

I stand by my assessment. I am an experienced gunsmith that's been around that long. All guns wear, the more you shoot the more they wear. But, a well made revolver that is properly maintained will not have that happen. Period.
teedubbya Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 90,771
Oh I believe you there Macs. I was thinking average joes at an average range.
USNGunner Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Ron, as a field service engineer, having been a Navy instructor, and currently an NRA instructor, I don't assume anything. You never know who's reading the posts, so I keep them pretty basic and continually reference basics. If I dealing with someone that I know and have actually shot with or that I know has the background, I'll go higher up the ladder. But public generic posts I always keep to the basics. Just my way. ThumpUp
USNGunner Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
Crap, double post. Sorry. d'oh!
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