HockeyDad
14 years ago

I love long, long, page and a half postings.

Especially the ones that are cut and past. You know – the poster could not paraphrase, summarize or say it better.

You guys ever read War and Peace? I should post it.

Brewha wrote:





What the cut & paster is trying to say is that Federal income tax should be a flat rate tax like all the other taxes that we have that are paid by everyone.
Brewha
14 years ago

What the cut & paster is trying to say is that Federal income tax should be a flat rate tax like all the other taxes that we have that are paid by everyone.

HockeyDad wrote:



Oh –

Well, now that is stupid . . . . .
HockeyDad
14 years ago
Well clearly you couldn't summarize it. Heck, it took you four days to even come up with that response.
Brewha
14 years ago

Well clearly you couldn't summarize it. Heck, it took you four days to even come up with that response.

HockeyDad wrote:



Well, if you’re summery was so good, how come it took me four days to read it????

Of course you were only trying to out clever me, with your craftily crafted trap – Don’t think I cannot see through this evil vale of deception. From now on, I’m going to keep my eye on you - when I’m looking – some of the time – so beware!

Now lay down your jealous hatred of America – and learn to pronounce ‘hamburger’.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Well, if you’re summery was so good, how come it took me four days to read it????

Brewha wrote:



I never said you were the brightest. The word is "summary"
Brewha
14 years ago

I never said you were the brightest. The word is "summary"

HockeyDad wrote:



Gee – tanks.

How doo I speel “phukyou azzwhole”?

HockeyDad
14 years ago

Gee – tanks.

How doo I speel “phukyou azzwhole”?

Brewha wrote:




You spell it like a poor person. Education is the key to ending your plight.
wheelrite
14 years ago

You spell it like a poor person. Education is the key to ending your plight.

HockeyDad wrote:



He is obviously a Student Loaner...
wheelrite
14 years ago
To summarize



Who Pays Income Taxes and how much?

Tax Year 2008
Percentiles Ranked by AGI
AGI Threshold on Percentiles
Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%
$380,354
38.02

Top 5%
$159,619
58.72

Top 10%
$113,799
69.94

Top 25%
$67,280
86.34

Top 50%
$33,048
97.30

Bottom 50%
<$33,048
2.7

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service



Brewha
14 years ago

He is obviously a Student Loaner...

wheelrite wrote:



No govmut loan for Brewha. I did drafting on the side and my father bought the books.

It may sound egotistical, but after more than 30 years as a mechanical engineer I can confirm that my plight is unending, and further education would not help.

Guess HockyDad has given up on teaching spelling . . . . .
HockeyDad
14 years ago
I will still teach you spelling. Maybe I will even give you a discount on the consulting charge rate.

Disclaimer: Le HockeyDad will not be conducting the actual teaching. It will be conducted by a subcontractor in China.
Brewha
14 years ago


Top 1%
$380,354
38.02

Top 5%
$159,619
58.72

Top 10%
$113,799
69.94

Top 25%
$67,280
86.34

Top 50%
$33,048
97.30

Bottom 50%
<$33,048
2.7

wheelrite wrote:



So this tells us that the bottom 50% earn little to nothing. And they aren’t paying?? – Those cheese eatin’ baztards! Having no income in no excuse!
5% are paid 59% of the money?
10% are paid 70% of the money?
No wonder there is nothing left at the bottom!
BTW – the 1% make far more 38% - they just don’t pay taxes on it.

What a huge separation in compensation. No wonder we have such an obscene division of wealth!

And it gets worse – 1% owns 50% of the financial wealth. Why are they paying so little in taxes? Is it that the buy lobbyist to make it happen and ‘news’ services to teach the foolish it’s fair?


It is the people above you that are screwing you Wheel – not the poor ones below you.
Brewha
14 years ago

I will still teach you spelling. Maybe I will even give you a discount on the consulting charge rate.

Disclaimer: Le HockeyDad will not be conducting the actual teaching. It will be conducted by a subcontractor in China.

HockeyDad wrote:



Well, that is a charitable kindness. One I’m sure I don’t warrant.
But thank you just the same.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Well, that is a charitable kindness. One I’m sure I don’t warrant.
But thank you just the same.

Brewha wrote:



I marked up the rate before I gave you the discount. Boot on the throat and whatnot.
Brewha
14 years ago

I marked up the rate before I gave you the discount. Boot on the throat and whatnot.

HockeyDad wrote:


Ah, the skilled treachery of a globalist . . . . .
pdxstogieman
14 years ago

What the cut & paster is trying to say is that Federal income tax should be a flat rate tax like all the other taxes that we have that are paid by everyone.

HockeyDad wrote:



Actually that's not at all what I'm saying.

Here's an extract from the book "The Lessons of History" by Will and Ariel Durant that I find very appropos to the current economic and political state of affairs in this country.It provides some excellent historical examples of how the natural concentration of wealth was dealt with, either by peaceful partial re-distribution, or by violent means. Please take particular note of Solon's approach to defuse refuse revolutionary fervor at a previous time in history when concentration of wealth had the masses in a foul mood...something about a graduated tax. So flame me if you will for cutting and pasting, but if someone says something worth saying and can say it better than me (which is the case most of the time), I'm not ashamed to do it. Many other "Luminaries" on this board have done so. In this case hopefully my introductory thoughts on this cut and paste will suffice to mollify those who don't care for cut and paste without accompanying personal commentary.

This little book was an epilogue to their monumental 10 volume "The Story of Civilization" compendium of modern history. "The Lessons of History" is worth reading in it's entirety. It's t's available for free on online at this URL:

http://www.archive.org/stream/LessonsOfHistory/Lessons_of_History_djvu.txt 

From Will and Ariel Durant's "The Lessons of History"
=====================================================
The experience of the past leaves little doubt that every economic system must sooner or later rely upon some form of the profit motive to stir individuals and groups to productivity. Substitutes like slavery, police supervision, or ideological enthusiasm prove too unproductive, too expensive, or too transient. Normally and generally men are judged by their ability to produce — except in war, when they are
ranked according to their ability to destroy.

Since practical ability differs from person to person, the majority of such abilities, in nearly all societies, is gathered in a minority of men. The concentration of wealth is a natural result of this concentration of ability, and regularly recurs in history. The rate of concentration varies (other factors being equal) with the economic freedom permitted by morals and the laws. Despotism may for a time
retard the concentration; democracy, allowing the most liberty, accelerates it. The relative equality of Americans before 1776 has been overwhelmed by a thousand forms of physical, mental, and economic differentiation, so that the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest is now greater than at any time since Imperial plutocratic Rome. In progressive societies the concentration may reach a point where the strength of number in the many poor rivals the strength of
ability in the few rich; then the unstable equilibrium generates a critical situation, which history has diversely met by legislation redistributing wealth or by revolution distributing poverty.

In the Athens of 594 b.c, according to Plutarch, "the disparity of fortune between the rich and the poor had reached its height, so that the city seemed to be in a dangerous condition, and no other means for freeing it from disturbances . . . seemed possible but despotic power." The poor, finding their status worsened with each year —
the government in the hands of their masters, and the corrupt courts deciding every issue against them — began to talk of violent revolt. The rich, angry at the challenge to their property, prepared to defend themselves by force. Good sense prevailed; moderate elements secured the election of Solon, a businessman of aristocratic lineage, to the supreme archonship. He devaluated the currency, thereby easing the burden of all debtors (though he himself was a creditor) ; he reduced all personal debts, and ended imprisonment for debt; he canceled arrears for taxes and mortgage interest; he established a graduated income tax that made the rich pay at a rate twelve times that required of the poor; he reorganized the courts on a more popular basis; and he arranged that the sons of those who had died in war for Athens should be brought up and educated at the government's expense. The rich protested that his measures were outright confiscation; the radicals complained that he had not redivided the land; but within a generation almost all agreed that his reforms had saved Athens from revolution.

The Roman Senate, so famous for its wisdom, adopted an uncompromising course when the concentration of wealth approached an explosive point in Italy; the result was a hundred years of class and civil war. Tiberius Gracchus, an aristocrat elected as tribune of the people, proposed to redistribute land by limiting ownership to 333 acres per person, and alloting surplus land to the restive proletariat of the capital. The Senate rejected his proposals as confiscatory. He appealed to the people, telling them, "You fight and die to give wealth and luxury to others; you are called the masters of the world, but there is not a foot of ground that you can call your own." Contrary to Roman law, he campaigned for re-election as tribune; in an election-day riot he was slain (133 B.C.). His brother Caius, taking up his cause, failed to prevent a renewal of violence, and ordered his servant to kill him; the slave obeyed, and then killed himself (121 B.C.); three thousand of Caius' followers were put to death by Senatorial decree. Marius became the leader of the plebs, but withdrew when the movement verged on revolution. Catiline, proposing to abolish all debts, organized a revolutionary army of "wretched paupers"; he was inundated by Cicero's angry eloquence, and died in battle against the state (62 b.c). Julius Caesar attempted a compromise, but was cut down by the patricians (44 b.c.) after five years of civil war. Mark Antony confused his support of Caesar's policies with personal ambitions and romance; Octavius defeated him at
Actium, and established the "Principate" that for 210 years (30 b.c.- a.d. 1 80) maintained the Pax Romana between the classes as well as among the states within the Imperial frontiers.

After the breakdown of political order in the Western Roman Empire (a.d. 476), centuries of destitution were followed by the slow renewal and reconcentration of wealth, partly in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. In one aspect the Reformation was a redistribution of this wealth by the reduction of German and English payments to the Roman Church, and by the secular appropriation of ecclesiastical property and revenues. The French Revolution attempted a violent redistribution of wealth by Jacqueries in the countryside and massacres in the cities, but the chief result was a transfer
of property and privilege from the aristocracy to the bourgeoisie.

The government of the United States, in 1933-52 and 1960-65, followed Solon's peaceful methods, and accomplished a moderate and pacifying redistribution; perhaps someone had studied history. The upper classes in America cursed, complied, and resumed the concentration of wealth.

We conclude that the concentration of wealth is natural and inevitable, and is periodically alleviated by violent or peaceable partial redistribution. In this view all economic history is the slow heartbeat of the social organism, a vast systole and diastole of concentrating wealth and compulsive recirculation
HockeyDad
14 years ago
So we need to punish the rich to head off violent revolution. I think I already stated that.

If we frame the debate in that context at least we can get rid of that "pay their fair share" load of crap and be a little more pragmatic. The government cheese isn't good enough so we need to throw them some ground beef and Hamburger Helper mixes in addition.

....or we could just let them eat cake until the unclean masses rise up from the cell phones, HD plasma TVs, and Xboxes.

pdxstogieman
14 years ago

So we need to punish the rich to head off violent revolution. I think I already stated that.

If we frame the debate in that context at least we can get rid of that "pay their fair share" load of crap and be a little more pragmatic. The government cheese isn't good enough so we need to throw them some ground beef and Hamburger Helper mixes in addition.

....or we could just let them eat cake until the unclean masses rise up from the cell phones, HD plasma TVs, and Xboxes.

HockeyDad wrote:



It takes a lot of built up discontent to actually get the masses to act in any concerted way to adverse conditions. They will eat a pretty large crap sandwich for a long time before they get pissed enough to engage in violent revlution So if your characterization of the discontented masses as actually having all these comforts and electronic foofaw is true then things really won't reach critical mass for awhile.

Notice the description in Solon's time of the reaction of the rich about confiscation blah blah blah. The concept of a graduated tax has been in place for thousands of years. It's "fair". If the rich really want to be punished, institute a flat tax.
Brewha
14 years ago
Stogieman – HD doesn’t get it and aint gonna.

He is the poster child for someone who likes being screwed by the system – and he will defend it to his grave.
If Warren Buffet tell you it needs fixing – than he is an idiot (really, really successful, but an idiot).
When Farmers are pushed out by agro-conglomerates – it is their fault.
And when a poor man can’t feed his family – it is because he is lazy.

But never – NEVER – tax the wealthy more, only less. Truth is he just hates poor people.
HockeyDad
14 years ago

Stogieman – HD doesn’t get it and aint gonna.

He is the poster child for someone who likes being screwed by the system – and he will defend it to his grave.
If Warren Buffet tell you it needs fixing – than he is an idiot (really, really successful, but an idiot).
When Farmers are pushed out by agro-conglomerates – it is their fault.
And when a poor man can’t feed his family – it is because he is lazy.

But never – NEVER – tax the wealthy more, only less. Truth is he just hates poor people.

Brewha wrote:





That's right, just throw your hands up in the air. Poor you being crushed by "The Man" and his lieutenants like Le HockeyDad.

I don't actually care about taxing the wealthy more if that is what it takes to raise funds for ground beef and Hamburger Helper to keep you poor people from putting down your TV remote controls and starting a violent revolt.

Have you ever checked to see how much Monsanto stock is owned by Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and their foundations?
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