Abrignac
12 years ago
In all honesty, this is a crappy topic. It should go without saying that things evolve. History should remind us of the company towns, company script, horrific working conditions, etc... Because of all that the modern labor movement was born of which my grandfather played a significant part on the local level. Back then, it was about giving workers a fair shake.

Fast forward to more recent times. When Louisiana's "Right to Work" law was passed it was a time in which workers who were not members of unions attempted to report for work at non-union job sites only to encounter groups of thugs armed with clubs, baseball bats, etc.. lined shoulder to shoulder daring workers to move forward. In addition, the local unions were pushing to unionize many construction projects and require non-union members to join or loose their job. Talk about giving people a bad taste..

Then as we move forward, it seems many workers are tiring of watching their dues spent on salaries for bloated union staffs full of okie dokies and as contributions to political parties whose agendas are completely opposite of their own.
HockeyDad
12 years ago
Unions just simply evolved to the point where their sole agenda is to kill the Golden Goose....slowly.
bloody spaniard
12 years ago

In all honesty, this is a crappy topic. It should go without saying that things evolve. History should remind us of the company towns, company script, horrific working conditions, etc... Because of all that the modern labor movement was born of which my grandfather played a significant part on the local level. Back then, it was about giving workers a fair shake.

Fast forward to more recent times. When Louisiana's "Right to Work" law was passed it was a time in which workers who were not members of unions attempted to report for work at non-union job sites only to encounter groups of thugs armed with clubs, baseball bats, etc.. lined shoulder to shoulder daring workers to move forward. In addition, the local unions were pushing to unionize many construction projects and require non-union members to join or loose their job. Talk about giving people a bad taste..

Then as we move forward, it seems many workers are tiring of watching their dues spent on salaries for bloated union staffs full of okie dokies and as contributions to political parties whose agendas are completely opposite of their own.

Abrignac wrote:




That's very interesting, Abri, because it's normally depicted the other way around in the movies. It's usually a poor union organizer (usually ethnic or woman) who's threatened.
tailgater
12 years ago
Unions were critical in helping America become the greatest nation on earth.
Nobody is denying that.

sd72
12 years ago
The coke, as it were, was negotiated in your contract. What's being taken away is the staff at the store to unlock the doors, turn on the light, stock the cooler with coke, and reorder when needed.

Dues provide local unions the staff that works there.

You no longer have to pay dues, where's the coke come from. ??
teedubbya
12 years ago
The fed employee union is forced to provide services to non union members..... ie you need not join or pay dues but they must treat you as if you are a union member and represent you in grievances etc. No real distinction between union and non union other than you may not be eligible for a afge lnchbox raffle or such. You in effect are in the union just not paying for it.
HockeyDad
12 years ago

The coke, as it were, was negotiated in your contract. What's being taken away is the staff at the store to unlock the doors, turn on the light, stock the cooler with coke, and reorder when needed.

Dues provide local unions the staff that works there.

You no longer have to pay dues, where's the coke come from. ??

sd72 wrote:





Nope. The coke came from a store. The store hired the employees, unlocks the door, turns on the light, and stocks the cooler.

Your union dues paid for a completely different entity to have a local staff. What does that local staff do? They don't provide the Coke.
HockeyDad
12 years ago

The fed employee union is forced to provide services to non union members..... ie you need not join or pay dues but they must treat you as if you are a union member and represent you in grievances etc. No real distinction between union and non union other than you may not be eligible for a afge lnchbox raffle or such. You in effect are in the union just not paying for it.

teedubbya wrote:




So did you join?


(By the way, Fed jurisdiction unions are not covered by Michigan's RTW law)
sd72
12 years ago
By definition, right-to-work laws grant workers the freedom to reject union membership dues, even if they join a union and enjoy all its benefits. Moreover, the Supreme Court ruled in Communications Workers of America v. Beck that employees can limit their union dues exclusively to the cost of union representation (i.e., an employee at, say, GM, Ford, or Kellogg cannot be required to pay for union political outreach or lobbying that is unrelated to the specific employee/employer relationship at hand). In right-to-work states, workers are not even required to pay these Beck-inspired “agency fees.”



http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2012/12/13/4-of-detroit-public-school-8th-graders-are-proficient-in-math-is-michigans-right-to-work-law-the-answer/ 
teedubbya
12 years ago
no. raised an anti union guy and was glad I didn't have to join.

wasn't saying fed law covers MI just that that practice is not unheard of....

have no clue about MI nor do most in here
tailgater
12 years ago

The coke, as it were, was negotiated in your contract. What's being taken away is the staff at the store to unlock the doors, turn on the light, stock the cooler with coke, and reorder when needed.

Dues provide local unions the staff that works there.

You no longer have to pay dues, where's the coke come from. ??

sd72 wrote:



You don't believe this.

You think the unions are useful. That's fine. I happen to disagree.
But don't use lies and myths and propaganda to state your case.




sd72
12 years ago
Did you read post 49. That's Forbes. So I'm lying, Forbes is lying, local news is lying, my unions lying, but your right.

Gotcha.
tailgater
12 years ago

By definition, right-to-work laws grant workers the freedom to reject union membership dues, even if they join a union and enjoy all its benefits. /

sd72 wrote:



I'd like to see that definition.
Because the law you previously linked doesn't define it like this.

The law clearly states that a worker can not be forced to join a union nor to pay the dues nor to pay equal amounts elsewhere in lieu of dues. The worker can not be discriminated against for not joining.
This does not mean they would enjoy benefits that are paid for out of the union dues.
But they would get the benefits that the employer provides.





tailgater
12 years ago

Did you read post 49. That's Forbes. So I'm lying, Forbes is lying, local news is lying, my unions lying, but your right.

Gotcha.

sd72 wrote:



Instead of me reading link after link, why don't you cut and paste the part that says non-union workers get union funded benefits.
Because your first link is the actual law itself, and it doesn't state this.

teedubbya
12 years ago
Imma not gonna provide the federal law but it is a fact with fed workers
tailgater
12 years ago
Nothing would surprise me with the federal interpretations.

The fear here (for the unions) is that the federal policy is used in court to set the precedent.

Or is it president?

What do I know? I pronounce union with a soft U, like the vegetable.
sd72
12 years ago
There are no benefits from dues. They're paid for in a lump sump hourly rate, to the union. If you're a member you get all of the benefits. The union pays the healthcare fund, and the pension fund. The employer only provides the hourly rate, which is why most owners are also members, to get the healthcare, and pension plans.

The employer provides no benefits, he pays the hourly rate, which then get divided between benefits and paycheck by the union.

They are not separate.
sd72
12 years ago
Post 54.

Anyone can join the union, get every benefit and not pay dues. I already pasted it. A,B, & C from the pervious post.
That's what that says.
tailgater
12 years ago

Post 54.

Anyone can join the union, get every benefit and not pay dues. I already pasted it. A,B, & C from the pervious post.
That's what that says.

sd72 wrote:



Then this is where we'll agree to disagree.
It does not say anything about getting benefits, directly or otherwise.
teedubbya
12 years ago
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