z6joker9
12 years ago

To each their own. Vaccines are a very personal decision. At this point in the game it cannot not be said if vaccines actually cause problems greater than those they are supposed prevent.

But, to anyone who wants to criticize a person's beliefs regarding vaccines I invite that person to walk a day in the shoes of those family members who care for severely disabled people. And after you walk in their shoes, spend a day or two in the shoes of one of those special needs persons.

Abrignac wrote:



Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but I honestly thought it was a small bunch of crazies that just got way too much attention in the media. I'm surprised to find how many people have truly taken it to heart.

You do realize why we create vaccines, right? We stopped plagues, epidemics, saved billions of lives. Knowing how they actually work, why in the world would someone think they cause autism? The link just isn't there. At this point in the game, it cannot be said if jogging actually causes problems greater than those it is supposed to prevent. You can use this line of reasoning about anything. The burden of proof is on proving the link exists, not on proving conclusively that it does not (which is impossible to do on any subject).

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy 

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism 

http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc 
Gene363
12 years ago
It's all about vaccinations.
rfenst
12 years ago

"Nunca mas" will I be dragged into another mindless moronass, er morass.
Just heed the increasing numbers of developmental and immune issues as the vaccine schedule is pushed and even increased.


I was referring to rfenst who appears to love this sort of heated discussion, KidMD. Not me. I've already said what i had to say. Anything that happens to your children down the road is on your heads not mine. Do not vaccinate your children (pregnant and elderly as well) or at least avoid the flu and mmr. The rest of the poisons can be administered later when their immunity is stronger. There is no such thing as herd protection. That is a myth.

Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam or something like that. Do what you will.

bloody spaniard wrote:



Love? No.
Enjoy reading to a point? Yes.
Find some informative and sincerely passionate? Yes.
Warning a "newer" Member they he may be walking in to a proverbial "hornet's nest"? Yes.
That's all. Nothing more.

Abrignac
12 years ago
When I posted the article, I did so to provoke discussion. The I sat back and watched. I even made a few comments.


Fact is nobody knows for sure what causes Autism. Until then, one cannot say either way.

I just wish I knew the cause of the high level of Mercury in my daughter's blood and why her brother who until they were teenagers ate and drank the same thing, slept in the same crib and played in the same house and yard, yet he is normal.

Abrignac wrote:




As with everything, there is an oppurtunity cost. Regardless, PhRMA loves vaccines. They're mandated and the makers are held harmless. Win-Win.

Abrignac wrote:




To each their own. Vaccines are a very personal decision. At this point in the game it cannot not be said if vaccines actually cause problems greater than those they are supposed prevent.

But, to anyone who wants to criticize a person's beliefs regarding vaccines I invite that person to walk a day in the shoes of those family members who care for severely disabled people. And after you walk in their shoes, spend a day or two in the shoes of one of those special needs persons.

Abrignac wrote:



It wasn't until much later in the thread that I made mention of my daughter. A few people around here already know of her condition, though most do not. So it could be said that I have a vested interest. Regardless, I didn't really take a side. Even in the post noted above, I invited those who want to be critical to share the experience before casting judgment.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but I honestly thought it was a small bunch of crazies that just got way too much attention in the media. I'm surprised to find how many people have truly taken it to heart.

You do realize why we create vaccines, right? We stopped plagues, epidemics, saved billions of lives. Knowing how they actually work, why in the world would someone think they cause autism? The link just isn't there. At this point in the game, it cannot be said if jogging actually causes problems greater than those it is supposed to prevent. You can use this line of reasoning about anything. The burden of proof is on proving the link exists, not on proving conclusively that it does not (which is impossible to do on any subject).

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy 

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism 

http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc 

z6joker9 wrote:



Yes I do realize why we do those things. I also believe that many more lives were saved by vaccines than the number of children that were possibly rendered severely disabled by them. But, this is one of those moral dilemmas we as a society must make. Do we put the population as a whole at risk to render a smaller sub-set safe

Joker you actually helped make the point by linking to the Autsim Speaks website. This group does in fact believe that vaccines can be linked to Autism. You'll notice the quote from their website below.


It remains possible that, in rare cases, immunization may trigger the onset of autism symptoms in a child with an underlying medical or genetic condition.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism wrote:



Perhaps I should clarify a point. I do not know one way or another of any connection between Autism and vaccines. Nor am I saying that that connection exits. To date, there is no uncontroverted study that links vaccines to Autism. But, that being said at one point there was never any study that linked Zimelidine, Alpidem, Dextropropoxyphene, Terfenadine. Astemizole or Lumiracoxib to deadly conditions, but at some point after they were FDA approved this changed.

The fact is vaccines are big business. This industry and those connected to it have a vested interest in crushing any opposition to it's business model for many reasons.

Take the case of Avandia. SmithKline Beecham brought this diabetes drug to the market. It's sales exceeded $3B a year for a few years. But, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. SmithKline Beecham hid studies that proved such. It wasn't until a doctor who was a supervisor in the FDA's drug safety program left the FDA after being disciplined for recommending that Avandia's warnings be made stronger did this information reach the public eye. Research from the Mayo Clinic showed that 90% of the positive peer reviews for Avandia came from scientists who had financial ties to SmithKline Beecham.

Sorry, but this isn't a court of law. This isn't about who is right or wrong. This isn't about burden of proof. As I said to each his own. Because at the end of the day my daughter is still going to be severely disabled and we still have no idea what caused her condition. Just because it hasn't been proven does not mean the connection isn't there.
tailgater
12 years ago

Actually I think they have a high prevalence of flu and pneumonia.

*shrug*

teedubbya wrote:



You infecting them on your date night?
z6joker9
12 years ago
We humans have a strong desire to understand why, and as Americans, we want to determine blame. Vaccines have become the lightning rod for autism spectrum disorders since we don't yet have an easy answer. I do agree that moral dilemmas exist that weight the greater good against a few, and those have no easy answer. However, the very idea that there is any link between disabilities and vaccines stared because of a fraudulent research paper, and no connection has been substantiated in spite of 15 years of research. This is a great example of the damage a rumor can cause.

Sorry to hear about your daughter. As I'm about to enter that phase of life, I hope for the best every day, knowing what a challenge the unexpected can be.
Kidmd
12 years ago

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but I honestly thought it was a small bunch of crazies that just got way too much attention in the media. I'm surprised to find how many people have truly taken it to heart.

You do realize why we create vaccines, right? We stopped plagues, epidemics, saved billions of lives. Knowing how they actually work, why in the world would someone think they cause autism? The link just isn't there. At this point in the game, it cannot be said if jogging actually causes problems greater than those it is supposed to prevent. You can use this line of reasoning about anything. The burden of proof is on proving the link exists, not on proving conclusively that it does not (which is impossible to do on any subject).

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy 

http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/policy-statements/information-about-vaccines-and-autism 

http://www.babycenter.com/0_vaccines-and-autism-separating-fact-from-fiction_1470554.bc 

z6joker9 wrote:



You are well informed...good job!

BTW the flu SHOT cannot make you sick, it a physical impossibility..
It is made from KILLED viruses with the DNA/RNA strand removed and the polysaccharide coating is "chopped up" in bits and pieces and this is want is used....the immune syastem recognizes the coating of the influenza virus as foreign and mounts a response to its outer shell.
if you are exposed to the influenza virus that is in the shot your body has already seen this coating and mounts a second response which is EXPONENTIALLY higher than the first. you can get "sick" from that flu strain exposure but your illness is more like a mild cold ( your body mounts this higher response and fight it off better and faster) not the full blown " take me out back and shoot me " flu some of us have experienced...also if you are at high risk, old, young, chronic lung dz, etc...a mild cold type illness will not KILL you like a full blown flu...
Chopped up viral coatings Can NOT make you sick, your body will think it has the flu and mount a response such as spiking a fever to kill the "faked " illness.. The vaccine TRICKS the body into thinking it is infected (sick), personally I get bad muscle aches very year from my flu shots, I take 2 each year, one early and one at the peak of the season....I have no I'll effects , except I occasionally see colors and tracers....

😁 WAIT that is a different flashback thing....
teedubbya
12 years ago
semantics.... so your body thinks it's sick and you feel sick... but you are not really sick.... If I feel sick, and someone tells me I'm not, imma gonna throw the BS flag and we are both going to be pretty certain we were right while neither of us gives much credibility to the other.


the wheels on the bus go round and round
teedubbya
12 years ago
As my fence post disclaimer - I am part of the machine promoting the flu shot campaign and some of what I do actively supports it. There are some things in my job I don't agree with, but this isn't one of them. I'm just saying if someone says they are sick they are sick. Any good Dr. would prescribe them the highest dosage placebo on the market and hope they get better soon.
Kidmd
12 years ago

semantics.... so your body thinks it's sick and you feel sick... but you are not really sick.... If I feel sick, and someone tells me I'm not, imma gonna throw the BS flag and we are both going to be pretty certain we were right while neither of us gives much credibility to the other.


the wheels on the bus go round and round

teedubbya wrote:



Jeez! 😣
You are not infected from the shot.....how much more simple can that be.....you just have an immune response...jeez!
It means you have a healthy immune system, it is like working out...you get sore afterward and feel bad but are you sick?
No.
You get warm from the shot, are you sick....no....
Your body sees the antigen as foreign, thus mounts response,....does it mean your sick, NO!
Actually means your healthy...
A child's mouth hurts because they are teething, does it mean he's sick....no it means he's healthy....
His mouth just hurts...
A person comes on thinking he has an ear infection cause his ear hurts...his ear drum is retracted...and no redness or fluid..diagnosis eustacion tube dysfunction....the pressure did not equalize well, not sick....but feels sick....
Jeez.....
The credibility goes to the one with the knowledge of the facts, not those that deny the facts...
DrafterX
12 years ago
TW is usually sore after going to the gym.. I'm guessing he feels bad about it... 🤔
ZRX1200
12 years ago
No it's not necessary.

No I don't get them and neither does my daughter.
HockeyDad
12 years ago
TW prolly was just sick from the mercury in the shot.
DrafterX
12 years ago
TW's prolly sick from all the lead paint he ate as a kid.... 😟
Abrignac
12 years ago

The credibility goes to the one with the knowledge of the facts, not those that deny the facts...

Kidmd wrote:




According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2")-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5-millimeter rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side.

Wikipedia wrote:



Facts are facts......just sayin.....
bloody spaniard
12 years ago
Abri, don't take them to heart, my friend. Laugh. Their suppositions are silly. Might as well believe in the mythical Yeti or the missing link. My father and a whole slew of that generation of doctors not only thought the polio vaccine stemmed the "epidemic" but that sugar and smoking were not only harmless but good for you. LOLOL!

No it's not necessary.
No I don't get them and neither does my daughter.

ZRX1200 wrote:


=d> =d> =d> Excellent.
Let the misguided, religious adherents to the junk science religion load up. Lots of aggressive marketing for the vaccine dollars this time of the year. I've heard Walgreen's gives you a free ice bag if you buy two vaccines. LOL Poisonous garbage IMO. Now, all we need is more delicious, hybrid seed with built-in insecticide.

What a silly, ignorant, harmful people we will be proven to be by future generations. No better than the pointy hat dunkers, bleeders, and leech merchants of the middle ages. 🤔 Come to think of it leeching may be more practical.
Abrignac
12 years ago

Abri, don't take them to heart, my friend. Laugh.

bloody spaniard wrote:



I'm good RR. I'm just passing time until I go to work tonight. BTW, Cindy is going to make that call Monday AM.
bloody spaniard
12 years ago
...or better yet, weekends or anytime in the late morning or early afternoon during the week... Weekday mornings are a little stressful especially now that she's about to formally set things up and needs to iron out background/security checks, etc.
Kidmd
12 years ago
Abrignac is wise to point out the trigger thing....
There are other syndromes that are "triggered" ..ie PANDAS.


I have diagnosed several of these, it is triggered by a simple strep exposure, ie...strep throat...
These kids probably have some sort of genetic code in their genes that gets triggered by the strep exposure and some sequence gets turn on or off and causes this syndrome to become evident....
Thus the child was predetermined to this syndrome because he was "wired"that way by his genes ..it was just a matter of time before it reared it's ugly head...it was in his/her genes, just waiting to trigger...
science is leading down the path of genetics....
now that they have ruled that you cannot patent gene codes it opens up a whole new world of research..for the research to blow us away...
I am not saying the vaccines trigger any syndromes,....what i am saying is that these autistic kids are probably wired to get the disorder, it is just a matter of time....
I have kids in my practice that have never gotten vaccines and still became autistic....it was wired there...they have linked over 300 to 400 gees to autism and are finding more as we speak..most of these are random mutations, meaning not passed on from generation to generation but some are family traits....
Genetics is the answer, tome will play this out, probably in our lifetime...in the meantime I will continues to protect those at risk against diseases that are deadly via vaccination, it is just responsible medicine...
Kidmd
12 years ago

I'm good RR. I'm just passing time until I go to work tonight. BTW, Cindy is going to make that call Monday AM.

Abrignac wrote:


Yes you are, my friend, we have discussed this privately...

Respects,
Doc
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