Shame on Indiana. · Page 12 · CigarBid Forums

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teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#221

Those hasidics and their shenanigans.

HD glad you are aboard. When things in Kenya and Yemen effect the price of coffee let's revisit the issue.

TMCTLT
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#222

Shame? Just because you don't know understand something, you cannot simply say that a divine 'creator' did it. C'mon. This is 2015. We should know better than that by now.

Mr Roso wrote:

This from a guy calling anyone who believes differently than himself is an idiot, what in the Hell does the fact tht were in the year 2015 have to do with ANYTHING??? Enlighten us oh brave one....TW said you were brave, blame him

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

11 years ago

#223

OMG! Inflated coffee prices could be part of the master plan of the world wide GBLT community attempt to destroy society as we know it!

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#224

Did I say divine ?
I did not not, pay attention,,,

and "We"(you) don't have all the answers either. After all, 99% of our DNA are the same as an Ape.

So, Mr Ahtiest, how did it all begin and by whom or what ?
If you can't explain it, is right to denegrate others ?

hmmm?

wheel,,

wheelrite wrote:

Our similarity to Ape (and for that matter celery) DNA is more an argument for evolution than an argument for a creator. A "creator" would not be limited by the small steps evolution requires.

And further, an inability to explain some parts of our origins is not a valid excuse to drop back to dogma (or any other un-proveable idea). It's an opportunity for further research, for greater learning. NOT a chance to believe in something that has absolutely no evidence.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#225

Lets not get twisted, home skillet... If you don't believe, that's your prerogative and I ain't going to try to convince you.

HOWEVER, God made man... man made organized religion as a means to control other men (and women), I imagine with good intentions at first. What men do in the name of organized religion is not what most religions preach.

I am a Christian. I struggle with my faith, as all men do, but I believe Jesus made the church obsolete. God, by sending Jesus here to be crucified, took away the need for a 'church' and put that church in our hearts. I believe this because it is what I was taught growing up, and because I believe something as intricate as life here on Earth could not just have happened spontaneously. The trees using sun and carbon dioxide (which we expel) to create oxygen (which we breathe) only for us to expel it so the trees can use it to create more oxygen? The cycle of water from vapor to rain to ocean to vapor to rain... to nourish said plants and animals? The Earth... and the moon... in perfect concert around the sun? With all the stars and all the planets in our galaxy... this is the only one with life.

Sorry. I don't believe it's all a coincidence.

MACS wrote:

Sorry MACS, I gotta call bs on this. People like to call out the way our systems in the planet work together as some sort of evidence of a divine. But it simply isn't. You look at it from the top down, and see it as something that is working in a system. That's simply not how it developed. You have to imagine how it came to be, how it developed, and how each organism developed a niche in the system. Those organisms that couldn't develop a niche, well, we don't see them any longer do we. I think the most profound depiction of this is in prehistoric organisms, I personally think this is fascinating. Our first organisms didn't consume O2. They had anaerobic metabolisms, and oxygen is a waste product for them... I believe the first atmosphere was methane, and that was probably a main component of their metabolism. But as the oxygen levels increase (incidentally, waste from their metabolism), they become less suited for the environment. Oxygen utilizing (aerobic) organisms become more popular. Now we only see anaerobic bacteria in isolated locations, they were pushed out as the environment changed. It WASN'T in perfect balance for their existence.

I know I'm not going to convince you to drop your religion or anything like that over the internet. I just want people to stop using that silly argument. Life exists on this planet BECAUSE it is in the right place to support life. If it weren't, life wouldn't have developed. If the moon weren't there to influence the tides, the life that developed wouldn't have any dependence on tidal motion. Don't make the mistake of looking at it as if the environment is fit to support us. We (and every other organism here) simply developed to fit the environment...

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#226

If there was no God nothing as perfect as Victor could ever exist. Case closed. Drops the mic walks off the stage.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#227

If there was no God nothing as perfect as Victor could ever exist. Case closed. Drops the mic walks off the stage.

teedubbya wrote:

Huh... you're right.... I AM perfect....

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#228

Whoa. Good thing I was sitting down when I read that you disagree!!

Religion is based on faith, my good man... as I said, I struggle with it myself at times. I'm familiar with the science of it all, and evolution, from neanderthal to cro-magnon man... I have seen the scientific evidence of those facts.

I just can't conceive of the whole thing being a coincidence or a mere happenstance. I choose to believe it was intelligently designed. Not looking for an argument, and I know (for once) you aren't either. We believe what we believe...

Just turns out if I'm right, you're f***ed. 😇

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

11 years ago

#229

If Victor is right aren't you f***ed too?

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#230

MACS wrote:

hehehe... if you're right, I'm totally cool with being f##d. 🙂 I've said it before, even if there were 100% evidence of the existence of a god, I would refuse to follow it. Obedience/love/faith or you get punished simply isn't a deal I'm willing to participate in.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shake your faith on this, people believe what they want to believe (look at some of the dumb crap people post in this forum... and they believe that despite all evidence to the contrary)... I just don't like the "everything fits together" argument, because it ignores a lot of facts and plays on our brain's weakness... I believe it is specifically called "the narrative fallacy"... it ignores the fact that if it DIDN'T fit, we wouldn't be here to be discussing "fit", and that there are literally billions of opportunities that simply didn't "fit".. we don't see them, because they didn't fit... so we only are looking at this success and have no perception of the failures.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#231

That's why I don't find it cowardly to not beleive. Belief provides comfort and relief. If there is no God then it doesn't matter what we think. If there is id rather be on its good side. Don't mistake not finding atheists as cowards as anything other than a pragmatic thought.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#232

Nihilistic faith is brave eh......

Athiests
vegans
Texans
Cross Fitters
homosexuals

within minutes of conversing they'll tell you regardless of weather you care or not.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#233

teedubbya wrote:

It's an interesting discussion... probably more interesting than a thread titled "Indiana" deserves.

On one side you have those who argue that to have faith in something you cannot see or have any evidence for, blind faith, so to speak, is the greatest challenge.

On the other side, without that "faith", without any larger being to believe in you have a number of very real challenges on a daily basis... purpose, morality, the finite-ness of life, the entire concept of not existing ever again at some time.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

11 years ago

#234

Meh. I just think they are taking a risk I'm not. I'm not sure I find that brave but it isn't particularly cowardly either. It's pretty simple really but emotion can make things more complex.