HD glad you are aboard. When things in Kenya and Yemen effect the price of coffee let's revisit the issue.

This from a guy calling anyone who believes differently than himself is an idiot, what in the Hell does the fact tht were in the year 2015 have to do with ANYTHING??? Enlighten us oh brave one....TW said you were brave, blame him

Our similarity to Ape (and for that matter celery) DNA is more an argument for evolution than an argument for a creator. A "creator" would not be limited by the small steps evolution requires.

And further, an inability to explain some parts of our origins is not a valid excuse to drop back to dogma (or any other un-proveable idea). It's an opportunity for further research, for greater learning. NOT a chance to believe in something that has absolutely no evidence.

Sorry MACS, I gotta call bs on this. People like to call out the way our systems in the planet work together as some sort of evidence of a divine. But it simply isn't. You look at it from the top down, and see it as something that is working in a system. That's simply not how it developed. You have to imagine how it came to be, how it developed, and how each organism developed a niche in the system. Those organisms that couldn't develop a niche, well, we don't see them any longer do we. I think the most profound depiction of this is in prehistoric organisms, I personally think this is fascinating. Our first organisms didn't consume O2. They had anaerobic metabolisms, and oxygen is a waste product for them... I believe the first atmosphere was methane, and that was probably a main component of their metabolism. But as the oxygen levels increase (incidentally, waste from their metabolism), they become less suited for the environment. Oxygen utilizing (aerobic) organisms become more popular. Now we only see anaerobic bacteria in isolated locations, they were pushed out as the environment changed. It WASN'T in perfect balance for their existence.

I know I'm not going to convince you to drop your religion or anything like that over the internet. I just want people to stop using that silly argument. Life exists on this planet BECAUSE it is in the right place to support life. If it weren't, life wouldn't have developed. If the moon weren't there to influence the tides, the life that developed wouldn't have any dependence on tidal motion. Don't make the mistake of looking at it as if the environment is fit to support us. We (and every other organism here) simply developed to fit the environment...

Huh... you're right.... I AM perfect....

Religion is based on faith, my good man... as I said, I struggle with it myself at times. I'm familiar with the science of it all, and evolution, from neanderthal to cro-magnon man... I have seen the scientific evidence of those facts.

I just can't conceive of the whole thing being a coincidence or a mere happenstance. I choose to believe it was intelligently designed. Not looking for an argument, and I know (for once) you aren't either. We believe what we believe...

Just turns out if I'm right, you're f***ed. 😇

hehehe... if you're right, I'm totally cool with being f##d. 🙂 I've said it before, even if there were 100% evidence of the existence of a god, I would refuse to follow it. Obedience/love/faith or you get punished simply isn't a deal I'm willing to participate in.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shake your faith on this, people believe what they want to believe (look at some of the dumb crap people post in this forum... and they believe that despite all evidence to the contrary)... I just don't like the "everything fits together" argument, because it ignores a lot of facts and plays on our brain's weakness... I believe it is specifically called "the narrative fallacy"... it ignores the fact that if it DIDN'T fit, we wouldn't be here to be discussing "fit", and that there are literally billions of opportunities that simply didn't "fit".. we don't see them, because they didn't fit... so we only are looking at this success and have no perception of the failures.

Athiests

vegans

Texans

Cross Fitters

homosexuals

within minutes of conversing they'll tell you regardless of weather you care or not.

It's an interesting discussion... probably more interesting than a thread titled "Indiana" deserves.

On one side you have those who argue that to have faith in something you cannot see or have any evidence for, blind faith, so to speak, is the greatest challenge.

On the other side, without that "faith", without any larger being to believe in you have a number of very real challenges on a daily basis... purpose, morality, the finite-ness of life, the entire concept of not existing ever again at some time.

And all along I thought those smells were from the winds of change blowing across a landfill.

Hope & Change baby!

wheel,