frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
won't change any minds, but at least we should be able to separate emotions from facts...

The Trump administration’s move to rescind the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, or DACA, has created
an uncertain future for the 800,000 young unauthorized immigrants who had been granted protection from deportation and permission to work legally. A six-month delay provides a chance for Congress to save the 2012 program. But if we’re going to debate the merits of DACA, we should know what we’re talking about. Here are some common myths.

MYTH NO. 1

DACA incentivized an increase in illegal immigration.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) is among those who support ending DACA because it has “encouraged more illegal immigration and contributed to the surge of unaccompanied minors and families seeking to enter the U.S. illegally.” Statements like this betray a misunderstanding of who is eligible for deportation relief under the program. DACA applies only to immigrants who entered before their 16th birthdays and who have lived in the country continuously since at least June 15, 2007 — more than a decade ago. No one entering now can apply.

Perhaps the chairman thinks that children coming to the border are confused on this point. But the facts don’t support that view either. To begin with, the timing is wrong. According to data from the Border Patrol, the increase in migrant children in 2012 — the year President Barack Obama announced DACA — occurred entirely in the months before the president announced the policy. The rate of increase also remained the same in 2013 as it was in 2012. Even then, the total number of juveniles attempting to cross the border — unaccompanied and otherwise — never returned to the pre-recession levels of the mid-2000s.

If we’re going to debate the merits of DACA, we should know what we’re talking about.
Another problem with the theory is that although the majority of DACA beneficiaries are of Mexican origin, the increase in children crossing the border stems from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. These countries share one common trait: much higher than average levels of violence than anywhere else in North America. A careful study of this phenomenon by economist Michael Clemens found that more than anything else, a rise in homicides between 2007 and 2009 set off a chain of events that led to the rise of child migration.

Regardless, overall illegal immigration is far below where it was before the United States’ last legalization program, in 1986, when each border agent caught more than 40 border crossers per month. Last year, it was fewer than two per month. DACA had no effect on this trend.

MYTH NO. 2

DACA has taken jobs from Americans.

In announcing the Trump administration’s decision this past week, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said that DACA “denied jobs to hundreds of thousands of Americans by allowing those same jobs to go to illegal aliens.” This myth even has a name in economics: the lump of labor fallacy. It supposes that the number of jobs in the economy is fixed, and that any increase in workers results in unemployment. Yet this notion is easily disproved. From 1970 to 2017, the U.S. labor force doubled. Rather than ending up with a 50 percent unemployment rate, U.S. employment doubled.

If adding workers made the economy poorer, we might expect that people would try to “free” themselves from competition by moving to a desolate mountain and making everything for themselves. That no one does so is an admission that competition is actually good. We depend on other workers, DACA recipients included, to buy the products and services we produce. That’s one reason earlier efforts to restrict immigration did not produce any wage gains.

MYTH NO. 3

Repealing DACA would benefit taxpayers.

Sessions also argued that ending DACA “protects taxpayers.” But the opposite is true. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), first-generation immigrants who enter the United States as children (including all DACA recipients) pay, on average, more in taxes over their lifetimes than they receive in benefits, regardless of their education level. DACA recipients end up contributing more than the average, because they are not eligible for any federal means-tested welfare: cash assistance, food stamps, Medicaid, health-care tax credits or anything else.

They also are better educated than the average immigrant. Applicants must have at least a high school degree to enter the program. An additional 36 percent of DACA recipients who are older than 25 have a bachelor’s degree, and an additional 32 percent are pursuing a bachelor’s degree. The NAS finds that among recent immigrants who entered as children, those with a high school degree are positive to the government, to the tune of $60,000 to $153,000 in net present value, meaning it’s like each immigrant cutting a check for that amount at the door. For those with a bachelor’s degree, it’s a net positive of $160,000 to $316,000. Each DACA permit canceled is like burning tens of thousands of dollars in Washington.

MYTH NO. 4

DACA repeal protects communities from criminals.

DACA repeal, the attorney general further claimed, “saves lives” and “protects communities.” He implied that DACA “put our nation at risk of crime.” But DACA participants are not criminals. Unauthorized immigrants — the applicant pool for DACA — are much less likely to end up in prison, indicating lower levels of criminality. More important, to participate in DACA, applicants must pass a background check. They have to live here without committing a serious offense. If they are arrested, DACA can be taken away even without a conviction.

Only 2,139 out of almost 800,000 DACA recipients have lost their permits because of criminal or public safety concerns — that’s just a quarter of 1 percent. Four times as many U.S.-born Americans are in prison. About 35 times as many Americans have ended up behind bars at some point before age 34.

MYTH NO. 5

DACA repeal is just about politics.

Obama criticized the DACA move this past week as “a political decision” that was “not required legally.” But legal issues certainly factored into the Trump administration’s calculation. The timing coincided with a deadline that several states imposed on the administration, stating that if the president did not wind down DACA by Sept. 5, they would sue. If President Trump wanted to end DACA for political reasons, he could have done so on his first day in office.

Obama should know that defending DACA legally could be difficult. After all, when he attempted to implement a similar but much broader program in 2015 for undocumented parents of U.S. citizens, courts shut him down. Obama implemented DACA without going through Congress, and although some legal scholars dispute whether it faces the same legal issues as the 2015 program, the Trump administration would have confronted a real possibility of defeat had it had chosen to defend DACA in court.

The correct response, however — for economic reasons and security reasons, but above all for moral reasons — would have been to actively push for Congress to enact the program, not to announce its demise and leave the chips to fall where they may.

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David Bier is an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute.
DrafterX
8 years ago
Lots of speculation... If they come over illegally there's no way to verify when they came over... 😟
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
school records, work records, medical records, tax returns, etc...
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
won't change minds, but at least facts are available


CATO Institute by the way.
Speyside
8 years ago
Interesting Frank.
victor809
8 years ago
When have facts mattered here?
Speyside
8 years ago
Never, obviously.
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
so it isn't about how to document who qualified under DACA,, the op, written by an analyst from a major (if not the leading) Libertarian think tank, a Koch creation, is turning the beliefs of Trump/Sessions and many here into Swiss Cheese by shooting holes all through the reasons for their convictions.

Had they started with the facts, they may have come to different conclusions.
DrafterX
8 years ago

school records, work records, medical records, tax returns, etc...

frankj1 wrote:




Why is an illegal allowed to have any of these things..?? 😟
victor809
8 years ago
Why is a citizen allowed to have any of these thingsnn
DrafterX
8 years ago
Cause... 😟
Abrignac
8 years ago
1) Not going to debate it, but to say that illegals didn't take jobs is horse****. For every illegal working in the US means a citizen isn't working. Unless employment is at 100% that premise is false.

2) They are here illegally so why are we even debating this?
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
8 years ago
Isn't the goal to legislate something more permanent that wasn't a half-assed executive order?

I do question where this guy got the numbers though. I see illegals every day, and I can assure you that 36 percent of the ones older than 25 I see aren't college educated.

Everyone knows that 98.2 percent of all un-sourced statistics are made up on the fly.

Edit:

I imagine the conversation went something like this...

I heard that over a third of all illegal immigrants are college educated.

Oh, that's a lot, what's that in a percentage.

At least 30 percent.

We'll go with 33.

33 sounds like a bs number, why not make it 35

meh, 35 is too round, how about 36.

winnah!
Abrignac
8 years ago
I tend to agree with you Ben. I can go by any Home Depot or Lowes any given day around 6:30 AM and there are plenty of non-English speaking people willing to work for 10/hr cash.

There are about 10 subdivisions under construction with 5 miles of my house. Each with at least 20 house under construction at any given time. And none of the workers habla ingles. How do I know this, because I'm currently trying to put a few crews in them putting down flooring and tile.
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
I believe he is not saying any percent of illegals in general are anything. He is referencing the roughly 800,000 that fall under DACA.

Easier to decipher without anger.

And for the third time, not posting to change minds, just to clear the falsehoods bandied about used to support the anti sentiment. Be against it with the truth, not emotion.
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
I can't believe that one of c-bids few lovable libs is getting a thread beat up that comes from a strongly rightist (think Koch!) publication!

This wasn't an editorial culled from The Daily Worker.

Abrignac
8 years ago

I believe he is not saying any percent of illegals in general are anything. He is referencing the roughly 800,000 that fall under DACA.

Easier to decipher without anger.

And for the third time, not posting to change minds, just to clear the falsehoods bandied about used to support the anti sentiment. Be against it with the truth, not emotion.

frankj1 wrote:



Should have qualified things. I wasn't angry when Insaid horse****. That's part of my daily vocabulary. I have a potty mouth.

And the entire article is deflection. I wouldn't care if it were 1 or 1,000,000. There're here illegally and need to go. Let them complete the same process every other immigrant has gone through since whitey conquered the injuns and set up house.
Abrignac
8 years ago

I can't believe that one of c-bids few lovable libs is getting a thread beat up that comes from a strongly rightist (think Koch!) publication!

This wasn't an editorial culled from The Daily Worker.

frankj1 wrote:



It's CBid? Do you expect rational behavior? Just when you have it all figured out someone outflankes you.
frankj1
  • frankj1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago

It's CBid? Do you expect rational behavior? Just when you have it all figured out someone outflankes you.

Abrignac wrote:


I know that you know that I know that you know that I haven't stopped grinning since I first read this in the local paper today.

I even went to CATO site to make sure.

Near the end, he does point out that Obama would have had difficulty legally defending DACA, but after considering the truth about "economic reasons, security reasons, but above all moral reasons, the correct response would have been to push for Congress to enact the program not announce it's demise and let the chips fall where they may".

That should frame the debate.
MACS
8 years ago
Rewarding bad behavior sets a bad precedent. Children or not, at fault or not, we have immigration laws that need to be enforced and followed.

MANY people immigrate here legally. It takes time, money, and effort. Rewarding people here illegally with a path to citizenship is a slap in the face to those who follow our laws and do it right.
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