frankj1
7 years ago

Impossible to quantitfy? Hmm I read a book.

20,000 laws.....they’ve worked right? LMAO

ZRX1200 wrote:


apples/oranges.
many laws actually do work as intended, mostly on rational people though.


But you said no gun law ever saved a life.
I said impossible to quantify...as in you have no idea if thousands have been saved due to determined mass shooters being unable to purchase firearms where the laws may have worked.

how many lives have been saved by fear of the death penalty? if someone is gonna snap, they're gonna snap.
opelmanta1900
7 years ago


I do believe they are looking for attention or approval...why else would the majority of them spend a lot of time on social media pontificating with other think alike peeps...

delta1 wrote:


Same reason you do?
izonfire
7 years ago

The gunman who fatally shot nine people -- including his sister -- and injured more than two dozen  in Dayton, Ohio, early Sunday was “anti-Second Amendment” and “never spit out a conservative opinion on gun control,” according to a former classmate and friend.

The 24-year-old gunman, who was killed by police less than a minute after he opened fire with an AR-15-style rifle outside a crowded bar, attended Bellbrook High School with Will El-Fakir, the Dayton Daily News reported. Although Fox News has identified him, neither his name nor his photo are being aired or published unless necessary for clarity.

El-Fakir told the paper he stopped talking to him five months ago after the future killer held a gun to his head.

El-Fakir told the paper that his former pal was “definitely not a right-leaning person. His political views definitely leaned to the left. And believe it or not, he was actually pro-gun control. He was actually anti-Second Amendment.”

“I don’t know if this is the motive that made him snap,” El-Fakir told the Dayton Daily News.

In the last months of their friendship, El-Fakir said his troubled friend was getting violent with pals and surveyed bars as good places to do “damage.”

A Twitter feed which appears to have belonged to the suspect also showed left-leaning tweets lamenting the 2016 election of President Trump. The account @iamthespookster didn't bear his name, but did show selfies that resembled known photos of him.

Twitter took the account down late Sunday, fueling speculation that it belonged to the gunman. The killer also appeared to support 2020 Democratic presidential contender Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, according to The Associated Press.

Film at 11... :-k

DrafterX wrote:



SHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
We're trying to stick with a white nationalist theme here!
Get with the program...
DrafterX
7 years ago
Mass shootings have been around longer than social media... 😟
dstieger
7 years ago
I got confused....I thought the gun discussion was in the threepeat thread...isn't this the nutjob and supremacist thread?.....I can't keep up some days
opelmanta1900
7 years ago

I've never entertained any ideas about committing a mass murder, so I wouldn't know what to look for...the "experts" who've studied imprisoned mass murderers have been unsuccessful in developing anything other than a generic profile that would fit millions of similar folks in the general population...

delta1 wrote:


I think we are on two different wave lengths on this one... I would never suggest that the ordinary man could predict future mass murderers based on profiling... Nor am I suggesting that's why anyone should read these manifestos...

I am suggesting that the same poorly thought out opinions that often motivate these perpetrators also motivate many others - albeit to far less heinous actions...

If we can pull those opinions out of the shadows and debate them in the light of day, we might have a chance at defeating them... More will come, as they always have, but logic doesn't need rest...
victor809
7 years ago

I think we are on two different wave lengths on this one... I would never suggest that the ordinary man could predict future mass murderers based on profiling... Nor am I suggesting that's why anyone should read these manifestos...

I am suggesting that the same poorly thought out opinions that often motivate these perpetrators also motivate many others - albeit to far less heinous actions...

If we can pull those opinions out of the shadows and debate them in the light of day, we might have a chance at defeating them... More will come, as they always have, but logic doesn't need rest...

opelmanta1900 wrote:



That has actually not proven to be correct.

The past 20 years has been an experiment in discussing bad and dumb ideas to death. It's called the internet. If anything, we've seen an increase in these idiots acting on dumb ideas.

I don't advocate shutting anything down, I'm fine with people discussing dumb ideas in a public forum. But it has appeared to me that this has normalized the ideas. The people with these ideas don't feel isolated and "wrong", instead they're finding a few thousand people across the nation with the same dumb idea and that emboldens them.

If you want to take a less controversial stance, think of your flat-earthers.... 20 years ago they were conspiracy freaks who lived in basements somewhere and never discussed their dumb idea with anyone else. Now, they have been able to connect with other idiots around the US/world and have public gatherings to meet once a year. They reinforce each other's dumb ideas and shelter each other from having to actually learn the truth.

We were probably better off when neo nazis and flat-earthers didn't feel like they had a place in society. But that's fine...
fishinguitarman
7 years ago
That’s why they call them opinions opel! Well stated
opelmanta1900
7 years ago



If you want to take a less controversial stance, think of your flat-earthers.... 20 years ago they were conspiracy freaks who lived in basements somewhere and never discussed their dumb idea with anyone else. Now, they have been able to connect with other idiots around the US/world and have public gatherings to meet once a year. They reinforce each other's dumb ideas and shelter each other from having to actually learn the truth....

victor809 wrote:



Quite the opposite... 20 years ago they sat in their parents basement unopposed because few people knew they existed...

Now, their bad opinions have seen the light of logic... Few people are unaware of the existence of flat earthers or the flaws in their beliefs... They're a dying breed, soon to be extinct, or at the very least, long dormant...
opelmanta1900
7 years ago
Really appreciate you making my point for me Victor...
teedubbya
7 years ago
My problem is they used to be the fringe. Now they’ve been mainstreamed and too many folks are comfortable with the overlap.

They used to be easier to identify because good folks used to run from them like the plague. The communication mechanism is secondary or tertiary to me.
victor809
7 years ago

Quite the opposite... 20 years ago they sat in their parents basement unopposed because few people knew they existed...

Now, their bad opinions have seen the light of logic... Few people are unaware of the existence of flat earthers or the flaws in their beliefs... They're a dying breed, soon to be extinct, or at the very least, long dormant...

opelmanta1900 wrote:



do you think they're dying?

You could be right, but I'd have to ask for proof. We're seeing more of them publicly. We ridicule them... but that hasn't changed a single opinion of one.

Same could be said of the neo nazis.
opelmanta1900
7 years ago
Who is seeing more of them? And more of them than when?

Check YouTube... There was a surge... It has passed... They're not dying... Their dumb ideas are...
fishinguitarman
7 years ago
Some people like to see people die. In fact they laugh about it!
victor809
7 years ago

Who is seeing more of them? And more of them than when?

Check YouTube... There was a surge... It has passed... They're not dying... Their dumb ideas are...

opelmanta1900 wrote:




I mean.... maybe I'm wrong, but they have annual gatherings. This is not normal for something that's fringey and being mocked into obsolescence.

I don't see any evidence it's dying out... you seem to think it is. I'm curious why.
opelmanta1900
7 years ago
Did you check YouTube? What's been published more in the last - say 6 months? Flat earth conspiracy videos or videos debunking the ideas behind flat earth?

And which of those videos is more likely to influence young boys and girls forming their opinions in the pressure chamber of their friends opinions?
victor809
7 years ago

Did you check YouTube? What's been published more in the last - say 6 months? Flat earth conspiracy videos or videos debunking the ideas behind flat earth?

And which of those videos is more likely to influence young boys and girls forming their opinions in the pressure chamber of their friends opinions?

opelmanta1900 wrote:



Dunno.
Fewer videos posted doesn't mean fewer people believe.... I can't find any good data.... wikipedia says there's an "internet resurgence" but I don't see hard data to back it up. There was some .gov survey done a few years ago, but it doesn't have historical data to compare to... so the results are useless from an "increasing/decreasing" standpoint.

There are a number of societies mentioned in the wikipedia site, so I'm sure if we were to track membership to these societies that would tell us if it's increasing or decreasing... but that's a lot of effort.

what I'm getting at is this... even if they're a bunch of idiots putting out ridiculous youtube videos that you don't find credible... doesn't mean others won't buy in. We've watch people buy in to some of the most nonsensical crap ever in the past years... hell, you can look at the manifesto starting this thread.... that's not the writings of someone with strong decision making skills.
teedubbya
7 years ago
I don’t know about the you tube research but recent hearings with the fbi and a few other national security heads suggest the opposite. Ive not seen any of them suggest it’s peaked and waining. In fact they say the opposite.

And the usual caveat for the folks that don’t want to think so suggest media brainwashing on everyone but them.... I’m one of the geeks that watches testimony and reads transcripts. I also read a lot of regs. It’s a weird thing.

teedubbya
7 years ago
As for the press if I remember right just last week an ex fbi official wrote something to the effect that there’s been a spike in activity, a hesitancy to address it and we can expect violence. His timing was gratuitous but he was right.

Can’t remember his name but I’ll find it. I read it and blew it off but then remembered it following the shooting.
delta1
7 years ago
Feds are very concerned about domestic terrorism, especially the embrace of white supremacy ideologies that promote hate and violence against minorities...opel mentioned 8ch...never heard of it until now... but CloudFair the company that provided server space for it just cancelled it because the company CEO was disturbed by what was happening there...but was OK until people got killed...

sure, exposing hateful rhetoric can cause pushback by decent folks...but it can also attract more followers...

and we all thought that we had ended the scourge of white supremacy when we defeated Nazi Germany nearly 75 years ago...what keeps that heart beating?

I don't know the answer...I'm a big supporter of the 1st Amendment and the freedoms we all enjoy...but I also don't have to subject myself to random thoughts by a proven idiot nutjob...heck, I hated to read poems written by high school classmates who were my friends...

maybe the price we pay for all these freedoms is the uncertainty that some freedom loving nutjob could take any of us out at any given moment...so treat every second as a precious gift...
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