DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

I wonder what that Taylor Swift chik is doing..?? :-k

DrafterX wrote:



Prolly writing some weepy pop bullcrap songs nobody needs to hear
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frankj1
3 years ago

You can deny the reality of it all you want. Hell, even on this thread there's post with videos of them actually mining minerals.

Don't forget to tip your waitstaff!

DrMaddVibe wrote:


no idea, as usual, quite what you think I am saying...but here's a clue:

child slaves are not why anyone is against EVs.

It is why I will not support Nike and most of Walmart stuff (sorry Bucky), but it's a lot of self serving sheeet to use it as an argument to thwart efforts to halt dependence on fossil fuels.

Frankie tripod
(owner of a 2008 Honda CRV)

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DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

no idea, as usual, quite what you think I am saying...but here's a clue:

child slaves are not why anyone is against EVs.

It is why I will not support Nike and most of Walmart stuff (sorry Bucky), but it's a lot of self serving sheeet to use it as an argument to thwart efforts to halt dependence on fossil fuels.

Frankie tripod
(owner of a 2008 Honda CRV)

frankj1 wrote:




Blah frickety blah.

EVERYONE is against it because it's a govt. funded boondoggle. The fact that it takes resources harvested by child slaves is abhorrent.

Your spending issues are yours alone. What the US govt. decides to spend its money on is everyone's problem.

(owner of a 2011 F-250 & a 2020 Jeep Wrangler...like it matters to anyone else what's in my driveway)
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HockeyDad
3 years ago

no idea, as usual, quite what you think I am saying...but here's a clue:

child slaves are not why anyone is against EVs.

It is why I will not support Nike and most of Walmart stuff (sorry Bucky), but it's a lot of self serving sheeet to use it as an argument to thwart efforts to halt dependence on fossil fuels.

Frankie tripod
(owner of a 2008 Honda CRV)

frankj1 wrote:




Wait….

You won’t buy Nike because of child labor.
You won’t buy Walmart because of child labor.
You WILL buy an EV regardless of child labor in battery production to halt dependence on fossil fuels. This is why I got into green energy.

That seems like selective outrage. I like it. I suggest heading down to Walmart and picking up a nice pair of Nikes! Cross over to the dark side. Just imagine driving your EV down to Walmart to buy those Nikes. Children need work too! If you buy the right EV it can even make fart sounds. The kids doing the child labor can’t hear the fart sounds because they are in Africa and Asia but it’s the thought that counts.

(Owner of a 2020 BMW X5)
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HockeyDad
3 years ago

Think I need a  pre-adult labor unit to mow my lawn this year... I wonder what that Taylor Swift chik is doing..?? :-k

DrafterX wrote:



Prolly trying to figure out what to do with all that money.

Forbes estimates Taylor Swift's net worth in 2023 to be $570 million, thanks to her massive album sales, songwriting royalties, real estate portfolio, acting, directing, merchandising, brand deals and Ticketmaster-shattering tours.
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DrafterX
3 years ago
Well, send Britney then... 😟
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HockeyDad
3 years ago

Well, send Britney then... 😟

DrafterX wrote:



Isn’t she like….50 or something? The whole point of pre-adult labor is the “pre-adult” part. We’re having a BOGO sale down at Ciudad Juarez.
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DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Well, send Britney then... 😟

DrafterX wrote:







🐴
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Brewha
3 years ago
Good news -

The people who own the slave children have agreed to stop using them for EV battery production and will switch them over to making high capacity magazines.

So now everyone should be happy - except X and his lawn….
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DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Good news -

The people who own the slave children have agreed to stop using them for EV battery production and will switch them over to making high capacity magazines.

So now everyone should be happy - except X and his lawn….

Brewha wrote:



Yeah, they've said that all along. Try to keep up...the stories on this thread (with the inconvenient to your beliefs on EV's) CLEARLY point out what you think is some new revelation. It's not.

Hey, there is some new news on the Tesla front though....

After Price Cuts, Teslas Now Lose Value Faster Than Rivals



Those price cuts Tesla has recently put in play to help spur business may wind up not being the "perfect plan" after all.

That's because a report from FT this morning says that Tesla vehicles wind up losing their value faster than rival vehicles after price cuts. In fact the "value of second-hand Tesla cars has collapsed since the electric-vehicle maker embarked on a series of price cuts," the report notes.

A new Model 3 with a long-range battery, bought in January this year in the UK for £57,435 ($70,745.80 converted with today's rate because Math is hard for some people) is estimated to fall 46% in value to £31,300 ($38,553.90)by January 2024, the report says, citing figures from industry pricing agency CAP HPI.

It seems clear the depreciation is a result of the price cuts. Over 12 months, the same model only fell 4% in price after September 2021. It was £48,435 ($59,660.10) new and was worth £46,300 ($57,030.30) a year later, FT wrote.

Alarmingly for potential Tesla owners, competitors don't seem to be experiencing a comparable loss of value. A £50,395 ($62,074.30) electric Polestar 2 purchased in January would be worth about £33,000 ($40,647.9) at the start of 2024, FT wrote. This is a 35% drop, compared to the 46% plunge for Tesla.

The report notes that the steeper depreciation could results in Teslas being more expensive via financing deals.

In the beginning of March, we noted that Tesla also cut prices on its Model S and Model X vehicles. This decision follows the investor day event held at the end of February, wherein Elon Musk stated that price cuts had sparked demand for more affordable models.

Musk claimed that the demand for Teslas was nearly unlimited and would increase significantly as the company made its vehicles more affordable. The recent price reductions for the S and X models imply that these vehicles may not have experienced the same boost in demand as the rest of the lineup when the company reduced prices earlier this year.

In January, Tesla slashed the prices of its more affordable vehicles by as much as 20%, which enabled buyers to qualify for the tax incentive by putting the vehicles under a $55,000 cap.

Musk directly addressed the price cuts during the investor day: "We found that even small changes in the price have a big effect on demand, very big."

And, apparently, an effect on residual value...

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/after-price-cuts-teslas-now-lose-their-value-faster-rivals 

Remember when "gearheads" would ramble on about resale value? Not so with a software purchase. If Cuba when faced with an embargo can keep 1950's autos on the road that tells me that the American 2nd market is going to ramp up.
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frankj1
3 years ago

Wait….

You won’t buy Nike because of child labor.
You won’t buy Walmart because of child labor.
You WILL buy an EV regardless of child labor in battery production to halt dependence on fossil fuels. This is why I got into green energy.

That seems like selective outrage. I like it. I suggest heading down to Walmart and picking up a nice pair of Nikes! Cross over to the dark side. Just imagine driving your EV down to Walmart to buy those Nikes. Children need work too! If you buy the right EV it can even make fart sounds. The kids doing the child labor can’t hear the fart sounds because they are in Africa and Asia but it’s the thought that counts.

(Owner of a 2020 BMW X5)

HockeyDad wrote:


actually waiting until both cars (also own a 2019 Santa Fe sport turbo something or other) have aged out more AND the next generation of batteries becomes reality...I'm guessing 3 to 5 years until they are viable and part of new autos.
If not, I'll just wait some more.


Over the years I've owned a BMW, a few Volvos, a couple Infinities...guess I've slid into comfy SUVs as I've aged out!
They compliment my New Balance sneakers quite well
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deadeyedick
3 years ago

actually waiting until both cars (also own a 2019 Santa Fe sport turbo something or other) have aged out more AND the next generation of batteries becomes reality...I'm guessing 3 to 5 years until they are viable and part of new autos.
If not, I'll just wait some more.


Over the years I've owned a BMW, a few Volvos, a couple Infinities...guess I've slid into comfy SUVs as I've aged out!
They compliment my New Balance sneakers quite well

frankj1 wrote:



You should be wearing those Skechers slip-ons at your age.
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Brewha
3 years ago
So, a year ago I ordered my Tesla, and waited over 3 months to get it. During that time the car had 3 major pricing increases and cost over $8k more when I took delivery. Tesla honored the original price from my order date (as they always do), so you could say I had a bit of a wind fall. Used one were selling for the same price as new - sometimes more - because of availability.

Since, Tesla has drop the prices back down. Today, my car would cost $1k less than I paid - but you can’t order a M3LR right now.

The upshot of all this is that people who bought 6 months ago took a price hit due to availability. Used dealers kinda took it in the chops. Too bad.

But right now, Tesla’s are far and away one of the best values out there.
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Brewha
3 years ago
From Forbes:

EVs That Can Save The Most In Ownership Costs Vs. Their ICE Counterparts

1. Porsche Taycan vs. Porsche Panamera
Taycan purchase price: $88,150; five-year ownership costs: $91,597. Panamera price: $93,850; ownership costs: $125,075. Net EV savings: $33,478.

2. Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus vs. BMW 330i
Model 3 purchase price: $46,190; five-year ownership costs: $48,720. 330i price: $42,445; ownership costs: $69,590. Net EV savings: $20,870.

3. Chevrolet Bolt 1LT vs. Chevrolet Malibu 1LT
Bolt EV purchase price: $26,595; five-year ownership costs: $36,020. Malibu price: $28,398; ownership costs: $55,778. Net EV savings: $19,758.

3. Tesla Model S Base vs. BMW 740i xDrive
Model S purchase price: $96,190; five-year ownership costs: $115,430. 740i price: $90,795; ownership costs: $131,663. Net EV savings: $16,223.

5. Ford F-150 Lightning Pro Supercrew 4WD vs. Ford F-150 XL 2.7L Ecoboost Supercrew 4WD
F-150 Lightning purchase price: $41,769; five-year ownership costs: $49,114. F-150 XL price: $43,750; ownership costs: $64,539. Net EV savings: $15,425.
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MACS
3 years ago

You should be wearing those Skechers slip-ons at your age.

deadeyedick wrote:



I've got some oofos slip ons. They're incredibly comfortable.
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frankj1
3 years ago

You should be wearing those Skechers slip-ons at your age.

deadeyedick wrote:


actually, I have several pairs.
wearing the gray soft pair right now...
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Sunoverbeach
3 years ago
Where does Forbes get their pricing exactly?
'23 Lightning in Schaumburg - $87,429
In Merrillville - $72,299
In Oak Lawn - $60,988
Cars.com - $61,769

Seeing a '22 Model 3 with 9k miles for sale at $46,995 with cargurus calling it a fair price, so hard to see brand new selling for $46,190

Model S is all over the map. Some close to stated. Some less. Some over $110k

Bolt pretty close but mostly seeing $28-30k

And I don't believe Porsche owners have ever been concerned about cost of ownership, or they wouldn't be Porsche owners
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DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

From Forbes:

EVs That Can Save The Most In Ownership Costs Vs. Their ICE Counterparts

1. Porsche Taycan vs. Porsche Panamera
Taycan purchase price: $88,150; five-year ownership costs: $91,597. Panamera price: $93,850; ownership costs: $125,075. Net EV savings: $33,478.

2. Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus vs. BMW 330i
Model 3 purchase price: $46,190; five-year ownership costs: $48,720. 330i price: $42,445; ownership costs: $69,590. Net EV savings: $20,870.

3. Chevrolet Bolt 1LT vs. Chevrolet Malibu 1LT
Bolt EV purchase price: $26,595; five-year ownership costs: $36,020. Malibu price: $28,398; ownership costs: $55,778. Net EV savings: $19,758.

3. Tesla Model S Base vs. BMW 740i xDrive
Model S purchase price: $96,190; five-year ownership costs: $115,430. 740i price: $90,795; ownership costs: $131,663. Net EV savings: $16,223.

5. Ford F-150 Lightning Pro Supercrew 4WD vs. Ford F-150 XL 2.7L Ecoboost Supercrew 4WD
F-150 Lightning purchase price: $41,769; five-year ownership costs: $49,114. F-150 XL price: $43,750; ownership costs: $64,539. Net EV savings: $15,425.

Brewha wrote:



From Forbes eh?

Did it occur to you to actually go to the manufacturers websites and try ordering one?

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DrMaddVibe
3 years ago
Tennessee Will Use Eminent Domain To Evict Black Farmers for Ford E.V. Factory



The state promised Ford nearly $900 million in incentives, including new and upgraded roads. But it chose to run that new road through a number of black-owned farms.

One of the nation's largest automakers has some big construction projects in the pipeline, and the Tennessee state government isn't going to let anything stand in the way—even the private property rights of black farmers.

In September 2021, Ford Motor Co. announced a slate of new development projects, committing $11.4 billion toward expanding electric vehicle (E.V.) production. In addition to two E.V. battery factories in Kentucky, the auto giant would build a $5.6-billion "mega campus" in western Tennessee named "BlueOval City," which would manufacture both electric trucks and batteries. Ford boasted that the project would be operational in 2025 and employ about 5,800 people.

In return for picking Tennessee, state lawmakers overwhelmingly approved legislation that would grant Ford $884 million in state incentives. That includes a $500 million grant from the state's current budget surplus and $384 million for site preparation, including $200 million for road improvements and $138.2 million for infrastructure and demolition services.

The bill also apportioned $745,100 to fund the Megasite Authority of West Tennessee, an 11-person board with the power to execute contracts on behalf of the development. It can also take privately-owned land, via eminent domain, in order to facilitate construction of the facility and supporting infrastructure.

According to Tennessee Lookout, the state is planning to seize privately-owned farmland while only paying a pittance to the owners—far from fair market value.

In order to reach the new facility, the North Carolina Department of Transportation plans to build a highway interchange, plus a road leading from the interstate to BlueOval City. But the path that the state chose for the road cuts through an area of farmland whose residents are disproportionately black. Of the 35 total tracts of land affected, the state still needs 20. It has filed seven lawsuits so far.

For example, the state sued Ray Jones for an acre of his land. But while land in the area sells for $200,000 or more per acre, the state offered Jones a measly $8,165. It also sued Marvin Sanderlin for 10 acres of his property: two acres that would be used to build the road and eight that would become inaccessible once it was built. Sanderlin was only offered $37,500, or $3,750 per acre. Speaking to the Tennessee Lookout's Anita Wadhwani, Sanderlin called the offer a "ripoff," saying, "you can't buy a swamp here for $3,500."

Ironically, Jones and Sanderlin both support the plant and are optimistic that it will bring additional commerce to the area—but they're less enthused that the state feels entitled to take their land along the way.

Tennessee is not alone: In neighboring North Carolina, Vietnamese automaker VinFast is building an E.V. factory on rural land. In addition to providing $1.2 billion in financial incentives, the North Carolina government is currently trying to take 27 homes, five businesses, and a church using eminent domain.

It's bad enough when a state decides to give hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money to companies worth billions. But it's truly abhorrent to seize land from private hands simply because the state feels that a company should use it instead.

https://reason.com/2023/04/04/tennessee-will-use-eminent-domain-to-evict-black-farmers-for-ford-e-v-factory/ 


Just say no.
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ZRX1200
3 years ago
Sounds typical.
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