Abrignac
2 years ago
As a non-Jew I’m wondering if traditional Jewish support for the Democratic Party is beginning to wane.

It’s fairly safe to say that the pro-Palestine “rallies” are nothing more than anti-Semitic protests led by left-wing agitators funded by the same dark money that funds leftist Democratic initiatives. In the past few days Lisa Fithian has been in the news regarding the “consulting” she has done in NYC for the “protestors”. In the past projects she has worked on have been funded by money originating from foundations tied to George Soros.

I’m wondering if the Jewish community sees this a fundamental trend by the Democrats or if they feel this is simply a blip on the radar that will pass.
ZRX1200
2 years ago
D’s don’t appreciate people going off the plantation.

The Jews? Probably a wait and see.
Stogie1020
2 years ago
As a Jew who grew up in a very D household (North East, College educated parents, members of academia, baby boomers), I can say that changing the minds of the old guard (like my parents) will be very hard. Bear in mind, though, there is a distinction that has to be made regarding the 2024 elections. Many Jewish D's may simply choose to NOT vote for JB, rather than wholesale abandoning the D party and voting FOR DJT. This way, they mentally can stay clean of DJT and the filth of the unwashed masses, while voicing their displeasure with JB and the current actions of the D party. Mental gymnastics.

I was a rebelious (aka "smaht") kid who saw the failures of the D policies and have been a R my entire life. My father, a lifelong D, sees the current failings regarding leadership on anti-semitism, but would never, ever, ever, never vote for DJT or any republican. He would say "I would certainly vote for a good R candidate," and I think he believes himself when he says it, but there would never be a good R candidate in his mind. It's the mental gymnastics again.

He sees the D failings on certain issues because those issues are hitting close to home right now for him, but he would never leave the warmth and comfort of the D party entirely...

I think many Jewish Ds will either (a) hold their noses and still vote for JB or really stick it to the Ds by not voting at all, but wont cross the line to R territory any time soon. I hope I am wrong.
izonfire
2 years ago
“Death to Israel and Death to America”
That should help in the decision making process…
HockeyDad
2 years ago

“Death to Israel and Death to America”
That should help in the decision making process…

izonfire wrote:



They’re prolly just joking.
rfenst
2 years ago
Tikkun Olam (Hebrew: תִּיקּוּן עוֹלָם, lit. 'repairing of the world') is a concept in Judaism, which refers to various forms of action intended to repair and improve the world.
DrMaddVibe
HockeyDad
2 years ago
Biden is delaying weapon shipments to Israel but at least he’s not sending the weapons to Hamas. Yet.

The Muslim vote is more important than the Jewish vote. Sucks for the Israeli hostages.
ZRX1200
2 years ago
I think that’s just to keep the pro hamas politicians in America off his back.
jeebling
2 years ago
I saw this last night. I’m gobsmacked. Biden keeps surprising me and making me angry. So, at least I’m not jaded. Israel is an independent nation, not America’s plaything. This is not how we treat our allies when the world is against them and their back is against the wall. Have screaming matches behind closed doors but present a unified front. Where was Israel after 9/11? Right beside America offering everything they could to help us and they continued to support us through that whole ugly, mismanaged catastrophe, for years. Israel knows how to treat an ally and we pay them back by humiliating them and putting them in danger. I am thoroughly disgusted with the Biden administration.
Stogie1020
2 years ago
^That about sums it up...
JGRAZ
2 years ago

The Muslim vote is more important than the Jewish vote. Sucks for the Israeli hostages.

HockeyDad wrote:



More important by a longshot
Biden is not losing NY, he could drop every Jewish vote in NYC and still win the state without a thought. Michigan and Minnesota though are a different story, both of which can be swayed with the Muslim vote
rfenst
2 years ago

Biden is delaying weapon shipments to Israel but at least he’s not sending the weapons to Hamas. Yet.

The Muslim vote is more important than the Jewish vote. Sucks for the Israeli hostages.

HockeyDad wrote:


Do you really expect return of the majority of hostages claimed to be alive?
Muslim vote is greater around Detroit, MI, for example. Bidden will lose Michigan as a result right now.
rfenst
2 years ago
Striking Back at Biden’s Arms Embargo Against Israel
A draft Senate resolution denounces the weapons betrayal. How will Democrats vote?


WSJ Editorial Board

Democrats hammered Republicans for months to pass U.S. military aid for America’s friends abroad. Now only weeks after the bill passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, President Biden is holding up the weapons Israel needs to prevail in a war for survival. So credit to the Republicans lining up against Mr. Biden’s weapons embargo.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham on Thursday rolled out a measure condemning the Administration’s decision to halt weapons deliveries to Israel. All Senate Republicans joined the measure except for Rand Paul of Kentucky.

“I want the Republican Party in the Senate—and I think the House will follow—to firmly state that we believe Israel is a rule of law nation,” Sen. Graham told us. “That they have an ethical, well-regulated military,” that “the weapons that we’re providing to them are necessary for their continued survival, that you have Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran, all dedicated to the destruction of Israel, not the uplifting of the Palestinian people.”

The resolution rehearses the Biden Administration’s many promises of ironclad support to Israel. Yet among other weapons, the measure notes that “since January 2024 the Biden Administration has effectively paused the sale of up to 6,500 Joint Direct Attack Munitions.” These kits offer GPS directions to bombs so they are accurate within approximately 10 feet. They are exactly the precision weapons that reduce civilian casualties in urban warfare. Mr. Biden’s supposed moral stance will make the Israeli operation in Rafah more bloody and costly.

Majority Leader Chuck Schumer will probably try to deny the measure a floor vote. But the House could force Mr. Biden to at least pay some political price for his policy choices. Sen. Graham says he and Sen. Susan Collins of Maine are also looking at ways to push back through the appropriations process.

Mr. Biden’s threat to pull the plug on the main U.S. ally in the Middle East is a watershed moment that will radiate across the world. Other allies will wonder what they’re risking if they cast their lot with the U.S.

“Nations on the fence,” as Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said on the floor Thursday, “will look elsewhere for their own security. And our enemies will be emboldened.” An apt summary of Mr. Biden’s foreign policy.
rfenst
2 years ago
Biden Is Not the First U.S. President to Cut Off Weapons to Israel

Other presidents, including, Ronald Reagan, used the power of American arms to influence Israeli war policy. But the comparisons underscore how much the politics of Israel have changed over the years.


NYT

President Ronald Reagan used the power of American arms several times to influence Israeli war policy, at different points ordering warplanes and cluster munitions to be delayed or withheld.Credit...Doug Mills/Associated Press

The president was livid. He had just been shown pictures of civilians killed by Israeli shelling, including a small baby with an arm blown off. He ordered aides to get the Israeli prime minister on the phone and then dressed him down sharply.

The president was Ronald Reagan, the year was 1982, and the battlefield was Lebanon, where Israelis were attacking Palestinian fighters. The conversation Mr. Reagan had with Prime Minister Menachem Begin that day, Aug. 12, would be one of the few times aides ever heard the usually mild-mannered president so exercised.

“It is a holocaust,” Mr. Reagan told Mr. Begin angrily.

Mr. Begin, whose parents and brother were killed by the Nazis, snapped back, “Mr. President, I know all about a holocaust.”

Nonetheless, Mr. Reagan retorted, it had to stop. Mr. Begin heeded the demand. Twenty minutes later, he called back and told the president that he had ordered a halt to the shelling. “I didn’t know I had that kind of power,” Mr. Reagan marveled to aides afterward.

It would not be the only time he would use it to rein in Israel. In fact, Mr. Reagan used the power of American arms several times to influence Israeli war policy, at different points ordering warplanes and cluster munitions to be delayed or withheld. His actions take on new meaning four decades later, as President Biden delays a shipment of bombs and threatens to withhold other offensive weapons from Israel if it attacks Rafah, in southern Gaza.

Even as Republicans rail against Mr. Biden, accusing him of abandoning an ally in the middle of a war, supporters of the president’s decision pointed to the Reagan precedent. If it was reasonable for the Republican presidential icon to limit arms to impose his will on Israel, they argue, it should be acceptable for the current Democratic president to do the same.

But what the Reagan comparison really underscores is how much the politics of Israel have evolved in the United States since the 1980s. For decades, presidents and prime ministers have quarreled without permanently damaging the robust relationship between the two countries.

Dwight D. Eisenhower threatened economic sanctions and an aid cutoff to force Israel to withdraw from the Sinai Peninsula after it invaded Egypt in 1956. Gerald R. Ford warned that he would re-evaluate the entire relationship in 1975 over what he considered Israel’s recalcitrance during peace talks with Egypt. George H.W. Bush postponed $10 billion in loan guarantees in 1991 in a dispute over settlements in the West Bank.

In Mr. Reagan’s day, Democrats were thought to be the party that was more supportive of Israel, a perception he wanted to change. By Mr. Reagan’s own account, “they’ve never had a better friend of Israel in the White House.” And yet it was a friendship that was tested again and again.

In June 1981, less than five months after Mr. Reagan took office, Israel used U.S.-made F-16 warplanes to bomb the Osirak nuclear plant in Iraq, a surprise attack that outraged many in Washington. Defense Secretary Caspar W. Weinberger, considered a friend of the Arabs, urged Mr. Reagan to halt the arms flow to Israel. Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig Jr., considered a friend of Israel, argued against it.

The State Department found no specific cases of Israel misusing U.S. weapons that would justify withholding aid.

In the end, Mr. Reagan agreed to vote to condemn Israel at the United Nations Security Council and to delay the delivery of four F-16s due that summer — what Patrick Tyler, in “A World of Trouble,” his history of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East, characterized as “a minimal rebuke.”

But just weeks later, an Israeli airstrike killed an estimated 300 civilians in Palestinian neighborhoods of Beirut, prompting Mr. Reagan to hold back another 10 F-16s and two F-15 jet fighters. Still, the standoff did not last long. By August, he lifted the freeze.

Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 1982 forced another confrontation. Mr. Reagan halted the shipment of cluster-type artillery shells out of concern that such munitions were being used against civilians in violation of agreements. Around the same time, he delayed the delivery of 75 F-16 warplanes without explanation until March 1983, when he announced that he would not release the jets until Israel withdrew forces from Lebanon.

The move caused no wave of criticism like that seen in Washington this week. “Maybe it was a necessary signal to Israel,” Mr. Reagan wrote mildly in his diary that night in describing his decision. In the days that followed, stories in The New York Times did not include criticism from members of Congress in either party. Not until a week later did William Safire, a conservative columnist for The Times, fault Mr. Reagan’s move as “a tragic flip-flop on Israel,” as he put it.

“Reagan had public support for withholding aid because the bombing of Beirut was witnessed on American television,” recalled Lou Cannon, the Reagan biographer. “As with Gaza, it was horrible.”

Since then, of course, Republicans have repositioned themselves as the party that unquestionably supports Israel while Democrats who bristle at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s long conservative reign have become more divided on the issue. Today, there is none of the tempered deference that Mr. Reagan enjoyed from across the aisle on foreign policy.

The August 1982 bombardment in particular affected Mr. Reagan in a powerful way. Whatever his politics or policy, he reacted viscerally to the pictures he saw.

“Reagan was deeply upset by the bombardment of Beirut,” Richard Murphy, his ambassador to Saudi Arabia, recalled in an oral history by Deborah Hart Strober and Gerald S. Strober. “He made it very plain that he wanted this to come to a stop when the human side was pushed in his face.”

Mr. Reagan did not hold back and was willing to put it all on the line. “I was angry,” he wrote in his diary that last night, describing the tense conversation with Mr. Begin. “I told him it had to stop or our entire future relationship was endangered.” And stop it did, at least temporarily.
ZRX1200
2 years ago
I can’t speak for everyone, but yeah when I think Joe Biden…I think

Ronald Reagan. Yup.

Or was it Trump withholding Javelin missles from Ukraine I was thinking of? Hmmm. No that’s not it we impeach for that.
jeebling
2 years ago
Reagan was reeling in Israel. Biden is running interference for Hamas / “Palestine”. To my mind there is a huge difference here that is not addressed in the article. Interesting take though.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago
Robert are you seriously doing a "but Reagan"?

No where near the same.

We both know there are hardly any hostages alive. 5 Americans too. Our sitting President is doing what?

Siding with Hamas.

He pretty much set up the attacks by giving islamofascists billions of dollars that funded the Houtis and Hezbollah. Palestinians jumped into the fray because...death to Israel.

Put down the NYT. They were no friend in the roll up to WWII. They're no friend now. They're propaganda.
rfenst
2 years ago
Dude, NFW!!!

I simply came across the article and thought it might have some history worth thinking about.

Just because I post something doesn't mean I agree with it. This post was merely intended to be (hopefully) a contribution to this thread.

That's all.
DrMaddVibe
2 years ago

[quote=DrMaddVibe]Robert are you seriously doing a "but Reagan"?


Dude, NFW!!!

I simply came across the article and thought it might have some history worth thinking about.

Just because I post something doesn't mean I agree with it. This post was merely intended to be (hopefully) a contribution to this thread.

rfenst wrote:




For Context's Sake...put THAT disclaimer up. You see me do it with almost every Political post. It kinda changes the whole...message...meaning...understanding.

Take care.

🇨🇮
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