ZRX1200
a year ago
Till spending gets serious this convo is a joke.

Taxation is theft.
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HockeyDad
a year ago

I could throw out an abritrary number if that gets the conversation going.

Put the balll in your court because I'm looking for your perspective on what Trump would agree to sign.

Reasonable?

8trackdisco wrote:



Pick a number. We can base the confiscation on total wealth or income.

Trump isn’t going to agree to a tax increase. The big beautiful bill has tax cuts.

Elon wants more spending cuts.

Democrats want more taxes and more spending.

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HockeyDad
a year ago

Finding that number could be tough... 150k in Oklahoma is a decent income but in California it's prolly what it takes to survive... 😟

DrafterX wrote:



Fortunately Federal tax rates don’t care about cost of living.
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ZRX1200
a year ago

Pick a number. We can base the confiscation on total wealth or income.

Trump isn’t going to agree to a tax increase. The big beautiful bill has tax cuts.

Elon wants more spending cuts.

Democrats want more taxes and more spending.

HockeyDad wrote:




Truth hurts!
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HockeyDad
a year ago
Assuming we do not have an overspending problem and Elon Musk is a quack, the US government spent $6.75 trillion and collected $4.92 trillion in revenue for 2024 so we’ve got a big gap to fill. To get to balanced, we need to raise $1.83 trillion in new taxes. This is per year and permanently.

Just doing simple math, every Federal tax needs to be increased by 37%.
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DrafterX
a year ago
When do I get my Free Stuff..??!! 😕
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8trackdisco
a year ago

Pick a number. We can base the confiscation on total wealth or income.

Trump isn’t going to agree to a tax increase. The big beautiful bill has tax cuts.

Elon wants more spending cuts.

Democrats want more taxes and more spending.

HockeyDad wrote:



Okay, as a goodfaith offering as a starting point for a discussion.

The highest tax rate (37%?) is for north of $626,000.

With that in mind, I'd propose Ordinary Income: $1,000,000 ($83,333.33 a month). Pop them to a 40% tax bracket up to $10 million. If you are making between $83,333 and $833,333 ever month, I consider them rich.

$10 to $20 million: 45%.

Over 20 million: 50%

We'll worry about investment income later.

Considering 40% of Americans couldn't afford to pay for an unexpected $1,000 expense, and the number of people putting groceries on credit cards, the "rich" line I draw is probably way too high.

I'm not kidding myself- we'll never be able to separate the rich from their money. When you've got the best lawyers, accountants, politicians and lobiests.

Do we share any common ground? Directionally do we have inkind area(s) of agreement?
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HockeyDad
a year ago
So we are starting from the standpoint that all current levels of federal government spending is fine and we have a tax shortage problem. That establishes that we are democrats.

How much tax revenue does your plan produce? Regardless, I accept it. Done! That’s how negotiations work.

Now let me explain why I accepted it so quick.

I’ve said we need to raise every single Federal tax (not just income tax ) by 37% to raise $1.83 trillion per year since we are democrats and are not cutting any spending.

By my formula of applying the percentage raise equally across every Federal tax, the 37% income tax bracket would need to be raised to 50.69%. You were willing to go to 50% tax only for incomes over 20 million a year and my version was on incomes over $626k.

My plan also raises all income tax brackets.

10% becomes 13.7%
12% becomes 16.4%
22% becomes 30.1%
24% becomes 32.9%
32% becomes 43.8%
35% becomes 47.95%
37% becomes 50.69%

Clearly you still have a massive shortfall and are gonna need to find some more “rich”.
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HockeyDad
a year ago
We still have to raise every other tax by 37% as well.

Tobacco, alcohol, gasoline, excise, tariffs, estate, capital gains, Medicare, FICA, etc. Everything!

We are just getting started with the tax increases.
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RayR
a year ago
We need a higher horsepower chainsaw.
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ZRX1200
a year ago
Just as a history lesson for people who seem to not believe fellow BOTL because they don’t mindlessly join a vocal lynch mob…..

Le Hockey Dad has been very consistent over the years speaking about austerity (this exact word btw) and tax increases. Now all we hear from others is we need more taxes?

Out of touch bro.


(NOT LHD)
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8trackdisco
a year ago

So we are starting from the standpoint that all current levels of federal government spending is fine and we have a tax shortage problem. That establishes that we are democrats.

HockeyDad wrote:



That is as far as I read and then stopped. Was hoping to have a fruitful conversation. You asked what I thought giving you your requested abbreviation would lead to something better.

Let's just get back to the chit throwing then.


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HockeyDad
a year ago

That is as far as I read and then stopped. Was hoping to have a fruitful conversation. You asked what I thought giving you your requested abbreviation would lead to something better.

Let's just get back to the chit throwing then.


8trackdisco wrote:



You should have kept reading. I didn’t see you put any spending cuts on the table so we are just discussing tax increases. You set the parameters and now you want to hit the eject button?! You still need to find a bunch more rich people.
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ZRX1200
a year ago
Real men are embarrassed when they realize they’re wrong.


🏀🏃🏠
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8trackdisco
a year ago

You should have kept reading. I didn’t see you put any spending cuts on the table so we are just discussing tax increases. You set the parameters and now you want to hit the eject button?! You still need to find a bunch more rich people.

HockeyDad wrote:



You asked me for a definition of Rich. I provided that.

You reply with “now that we established we are Democrats “

That was enough to know the potential for a real conversation was over.
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8trackdisco
a year ago

Real men are embarrassed when they realize they’re wrong.


🏀🏃🏠

ZRX1200 wrote:



Very Trump Manly of you.
Trump still having a perfect year?
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ZRX1200
a year ago
I don’t think of Trump as manly, but it’s sweet that you do.

Perfect year? No. Better than I expected, yes. It’s quite a machine he’s trying to drag uphill kicking and screaming. He is very useful in trolling people who are part of or have the status quo zombie virus. And that’s more important than the budget right now, plus if I get the HPA it’s a win. The real work is uncovering what zombies refuse to acknowledge or things won’t change.
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HockeyDad
a year ago

You asked me for a definition of Rich. I provided that.

You reply with “now that we established we are Democrats “

That was enough to know the potential for a real conversation was over.

8trackdisco wrote:



The Democrats are 100% against the big beautiful bill because they are opposed to the tax cuts and opposed to the spending cuts.

Trump is ok with the bill.

Elon wants more spending cuts.

You want more tax on “The Rich”. Sounds like “democrat”. Didn’t AOC once wear a dress that said “Tax the Rich”?

You can pull the rip cord but you still need to find way more “rich”! I laid out how much money you need to find without spending cuts.

What dollar amount do you want to find? The spending cuts and taxes need to be $1.83 trillion per year.

If you let the Trump tax cuts expire that will get you $460 billion a year. Still short.
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8trackdisco
a year ago

I don’t think of Trump as manly, but it’s sweet that you do.

Perfect year? No. Better than I expected, yes. It’s quite a machine he’s trying to drag uphill kicking and screaming. He is very useful in trolling people who are part of or have the status quo zombie virus. And that’s more important than the budget right now, plus if I get the HPA it’s a win. The real work is uncovering what zombies refuse to acknowledge or things won’t change.

ZRX1200 wrote:



Not perfect. Alright.

It's a tough position for you to be in. I take it (and might be wrong- and I won't be embarrassed by it) you are still Team Trump first.

On the other hand, Elon wants bigger and deeper cuts.

Thoughts?
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8trackdisco
a year ago

The Democrats are 100% against the big beautiful bill because they are opposed to the tax cuts and opposed to the spending cuts.

Trump is ok with the bill.

Elon wants more spending cuts.

You want more tax on “The Rich”. Sounds like “democrat”. Didn’t AOC once wear a dress that said “Tax the Rich”?

You can pull the rip cord but you still need to find way more “rich”! I laid out how much money you need to find without spending cuts.

HockeyDad wrote:



I'll try this again........ You asked me to define "Rich". I did that, as a starting point for a conversation. An exchange of ideas.

You took that, made the Democrat comment..... record scratch. At that point, I guessed we were done.

It was a starting point for "rich". You could agree with that assessment or share your own.

It wasn't a policy.
It wasn't a cure all.

It was an opportunity to exchange thoughts, ideas, see what commonailty we had. Agree and disagree without being disagreeable or outright hostile.

You've passed on the opportunity, so let's get back in the gutter.

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