jjohnson28: BULLSH*T. how many jews or gypsies or retarded people do you think had weapons the hitler took from them so they couldn't defend themselves? how many guns did they have at waco and the us government burned them to the ground.

Great discussion, and being someone with mixed feelings about guns and people carrying them around like a wallet, I am enjoying this thread. I tend to agree with Rookie, because he is a police officer and sees this **** up close and personal! I register my guns and do not see the big deal! Charlie

Well Ricky at least those people at waco went out fighting!

So whats Bullsh*t Rick? Hitler didn't diarm the people of Germany?

Hmmmmmmm,Waco? and your point is??? Actually they didn't really fight back at all,they didn't stand a chance but they didn't give in either.Again whats your point Rick?

jjohnson28: i don't know or care if he took all their guns away. i can't find any reference to it anywhere. the germans had no interest in disagreeing with hitler, so guns or no guns what was the difference?
so they went out fighting in waco. the point is, they went out. the government is too well armed. unless you have a national consensus to overthrow a government, it can't be done. so all the little malitia groups playing soldier and defending their rights, mostly to own lots of guns, hate minorities, and make the world safe for the racially pure, are just that, playing.

This is getting deep. Rick, as much as I would like to say that the Waco tragedy was Bubba's Amazon Lezbo appointee's fault (that's J.Reno for those who aren't sure), the final blaze was self inflicted. A couple of grenades to smoke them out, and then it's blazing like my ass on extra spicy buffalo wings. C'mon, that Wacky Waco Mofo who molested those children rigged the place to go up faster than my middle finger to greet a Kennedy. But we need to realize that Bearing Arms is not stockpiling weapons. Let's all use some of the lost art of Common Sense.

"Bubba's Amazon Lesbo"...LMAO...Too damn funny!...(I am still trying to get used to this new format..I feel like a newbie again..LOL)..Sorry Jim...I feel that people who have misdemeanor convictions (IE: NOT "law-abiding citizens") should not have the "right" to carry a handgun concealed in public...I don't feel that it is a right for a person to be able to carry a handgun on their person, etc in public...As far as being able to defend their home and property within their curtilage (sp?), that's a different story...That should be an inalienable right for everyone but my concern is that admittedly I have reservations that even though it is a "right" for a person to be able to defend themselves and their property, I personally don't like the idea of a person convicted (or even ARRESTED for a violent crime) of a violent crime having access to a firearm...This sounds like common sense to me, a very conservative person...Of course the police can't be everywhere...I agree...I feel that the (qualified law-abiding) public should be able to carry a handgun concealed (or in some states, the handgun has to be visible, as in Arizona for example it cannot be concealed), but there has to be definitive conditions that has to be met (mandatory regularly scheduled training, background check, followups, etc)..It shoudl be a privelige to be able to carry a handgun in public.....You actually think that a felon thinks before buying a handgun illegally, "You know...the law says I can't defend myself because I am a convicted felon, so I had better not buy this gun..I don't want to get in trouble"..LOL..What BS...Some people have no idea what goes on every day in our courtrooms...PLEA BARGAINS ALL THE TIME..Guilty people getting plea bargains where they won't get a conviction if he/she completed this course, class, school...I don't feel right when Joe Blow gets a plea bargain for a violent crime (again, happens every day) and can still have access to a lethal weapon...Sorry!

tailgater: perhaps you need to look at some of the pictures taken at the back of the building using heat seeking film. why do you call reno a lesbian? does it make you feel better. whoever made the decision to go into the compound at waco is and was an ass. the same mind set at kent state and ruby ridge. i don't remember any supervisors being tried for murder as they should have been. i believe some of them got promoted after killing at ruby ridge.
i remember pictures of these young guardsman wearing gas masks and putting there guns in the faces of women driving their cars during the watts riot.

rookie139: i agree with you 99%. the other 1% i keep in reserve in case you stop me for a citation.
we must all admire the guts it takes to walk up to the driver of a car, who has just broken the law and give a citation or a warning, not knowing what he or she will face when confronted with the driver. i insure many police officer's family cars so i have contact with a fair amount of the whittier and la habra police. all just regular guys. a retired lieutenant friend of mine, just died of a heart attack at 57. i have chated with him and his wife, a forensic pathologist with buena park pd many times over the last 8 or 10 years. the stress of the job probably was a contributing factor. nice people, deserved more time together.

Rick, you perhaps forget one MAJOR fact regarding Waco. David Kuresh (sp?) and company were ordered by the US Government to come out with hands up. They did not. Whether you agree with the initial reason the Feds were there or not, the bottom line was they disobeyed the law. The Feds waited too long. They should have counted to 10 and went in. America has many rules and many freedoms. If those in the compound didn't like the rules, they had the freedom to leave the country. Plain and simple.

Almost forgot. Rick, how could calling Reno a lesbian possibly make me feel better? I see how she looks and I made a judgement. It may or may not be correct. You of all people should not comment on judgements made to people in the public spotlight, based on your opinions of the current Commander in Chief. But I've gotta ask you: "why do you ask?"

Not to mention that you insulted Will Ferrell of Sarturday Night Live!!LOL

Keith,please tell me you didn't just make this statement... "IMHO that means NO previous arrests, whether they are misd or felony..ARRESTS, not convictions...I could care less if they were convicted or not (which doesn't mean squat because of plea bargains between lawyers)." .... Dude! I guess thats why your supposed to be enforcing the laws and not makng them. Pardon me if I don't forgive you for presuming someone guilty before they're proven innocent.

As far as violent criminals are concerned,I'm in total agreement with you.We already have laws against felons posessing/buyng firearms.Enforce Them,or get in your DA's face to enforce them.

Keith,your second post makes a little more sense than your first.Although I still believe my right to defend myself and my family is above all my right and not a privilege(sp).

tailgater: i called bush stupid based on everything i have read about him and not just bushwatch, but the freepers and free republic. you look at reno and call her a lesbo for what reason? does it build your case that everything she may have done you disliked? if she is gay, do you think that would have any effect on her decision to rescue the young child from his loony supposed relatives and how would her sexual preference have anything to do with allowing the massacre at waco?

No, Rick, Reno was just the worst and most do nothing Attorney General we have ever had in that important position! Just about in keeping with "Brilliant Billy Clinton's" other appointees! Charlie

char5353: see how two intelligent people like us can disagree without stooping to name calling, not like some of these ass h*les.

My comment regarding Reno had nothing to do with her inept decisions. It was "in addition" to those. The Waco incident happened because of delay, not due to the eventual force. As for Elian, Reno finally got one right. They asked nicely, then they took him by force. Bravo! And for the record, I usually like Lesbians. I'll make an exception in this case. Too Butch, or is that upsetting to you also?