hmmm

"those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither"

-Benjamin Franklin

Amen

Amen!!!!!!!!

Amen,
Here in America, this will never happen???
Or will it????
National ID Cards?????
WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS??????
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
AMEN
and
AMEN

That's pretty lame.......are you really going to toss that "protect myself from the government" BS at me to quell my emotions about guns?

Firstly, I'm a gun owner and I like guns. That said, perhaps if more responsible gun owners would quit trying to convince others that the government is out to get them and focus more on solving the riddle of "why do people in America kill each other for no reason at all," we would have a better society to live in.

The US government is not about to mass murder it's citizens, however it's citizens are mass murdering themselves on a daily basis. Tell me, where is the real danger?

Adroomi you couldn't be more wrong.
.... its not the Second Amendment by accident. Its there to protect the first! (and the rest)

If anyone ever asks why the Second amendment is so important, here's a few more thoughts:

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.: -Patrick Henry.

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." -George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government..."-Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28).

Lastly, some words of wisdom from folks we all know....
"Government begins at the end of the gun barrel." - Chaiman Mao

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ... Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms." --V.I. Lenin.

"If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves." --Joseph Stalin.

God Bless America and God Bless the Armed American!

gun control means: a steady hand.

Big Tony,
I Know those quotes...I'm a lifelong member and go to the meetings too.

However, as I think Wagner put it in another thread, anyone who honestly believes that their guns will protect them from the US Government is in for a shock. My carbine won't get me very far when facing a smart bomb from a range of 30,000 feet.

I'm not a gun control person. I'm more interested in "what is wrong with our society that we kill each other so much?"

BigTony

You da man... great post... great quotes...

Adroomi, you are right when you say that our little firearms could never defeat the government. However, we could, with our firearms, make it a very bloody prospect tor the government to tyrranize us and that is what will keep us free.
I am not a conspiracy nut. I don't think that the government is out to get me, however, I do still beleive in my second amendment right.

Here's another one Tony, "When the people fear the government you have tyranny, when the government fears the people you have liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

Que

Do you honestly think the gov fears us? They play us with their media and propaganda on a daily basis, and we get on our knees and allow it. Why do I say that? Be the one on this board that questions what Uncle Sam is up to these days and see what the general answers from the general public on this board will be.....

I find it silly that the same folks that treasure such thought provoking quotes from our forefathers call people like Rickamaven a communist because he questions our government. Just an example.....JonR, please feel free to step in and bash me now.

adroomi.......can you read at all? I don't call Rick a communist because he disagrees with our government. I call Rick a communist because he espouse communists agendas. A litle reality for you.

I don't care what you think, 80million gun owners is a significant army and I will never give up my my rights nor shork my responsibilities.......even unto death. You'd sell out for a peanut butter sandwich.

Mo'sMan,
You Wrote, refering to adroomie, "You'd sell out for a peanut butter sandwich"
Just wondering, what do you know of this man. I know very little, about Adroomie. But what I do know about him, makes that statement, about him, false.
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

Adroomi I think you and I aren't too far from the same point as I too am constantly bewildered at the amount of senseless violence I see and hear about daily. The problem is that the Second Amendment is more important than most folks recognize. It was put in place to protect us so that we could protect ourselves, wether it be from a criminal or corrupt government.
The government is afraid of us! (Let me clarify, there are folks in government who truly believe its ok to take away our rights and freedoms to falsely secure us and "the children". I won't repeat it as someone previously posted the quote by Benjamin Franklin, but he was and is dead on!) The folks who would trade away our freedoms and rights ARE afraid of the Armed American. We represent the last line in the sand.
I'll post a few more quotes I find revelant and then I'll give it a rest for a while (they say it better than I ever could):
‘‘The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non ["something essential" lit. "without which not"] for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police.’’

-- Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938

‘‘In a polity, each citizen is to possess his own arms, which are not supplied or owned by the state.’’

— Aristotle

‘‘Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.’’

— Mahatma Ghandi, "Gandhi, An Autobiography", page 446

‘‘We cannot be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.’’

— B.J.Clinton, USA Today, 3/11/93 page 2A
--- Thanks Mr. Clinton but this great American said it best:
‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
— Abraham Lincoln

So that's it, my point exactly why Armed Americans are so important and why our Government does fear us. We are the last line of defense against the perversion of our Constitution.

.... and I would never call Mr. Rickmaven a commie or any name.
Hopefully I made a few good points,
God Bless America and God Bless the Armed American!
---Tony

the Problem in our Country is: We're becoming Morally and Ethically Bankrupt!!!

Hog

adroomi,

Perhaps one day the United States will provide as safe of an environment for its citizens as other countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc. I wonder how many people in those countries and others like them would like to have the right to bear arms to guard against government tyranny and oppression.

Citizens of the US are not "mass murdering" one another as you so stupidly state. Are there murders? Yes. When you overly dramatize what you are trying to say, you sound petty and silly.

My guess is that your knowledge of early American history is very limited. As such, I don't expect you to be able to understand why we have the 2nd amendment or what it means in its historical context. Before you start popping off at people on this forum about it, you should learn something about it to save yourself some embarassment.

Hog:

You forgot one---we are becoming literally bankrupt as the drunken sailor in the white house keeps spending far more than we collect. How long do you think that can continue?

Wagner