tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:49:00 AM
Do you think that the process leading to citizenship needs to be changed to suit the needs of the influx? Most of my clients say they have had a bitch of a time trying to get citizenship. If at the end of the day people just want them to be legal why not make the process easier? I still think that a majority of people don't want them here at all and will hide behind the national security banner.
billyjackson
Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:59:00 AM
Though national security is a concern nowadays, I don't use it here.

As far as just not wanting them here....there might be something to that, even with me.

I think there are plenty of domestic issues and natural citizens for America to tend to. Pure math makes illegals an addition to the concerns. Becoming legit should be difficult in my opinion. If the benefit is worth coming here, the process to be legit should reflect those willing to commit to being here.

I'm sorry they were born in other places that might be oppressive/etc. If it's that bad where they are to where they want a better life here, I think they should have to go through the process. And I have no problem with the process being more than filling out a one page application.

billyjackson
Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:00:00 AM
and to be fair...i don't know the ins and outs of the process to be legit.
tey
  • tey
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Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:27:00 AM
Billy,

I appreciate your honesty on the subject but respectfully disagree. The only way they can truly solve this "problem" is if the laws get reformed. I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest that the processbe as simple as filling out a single piece of paper but it can be less time consuming than waiting months or years to get your citizenship. The fact of the matter is America(spanish word) can not continue to exist in it's current state without the help of Mexican immigrants. Ever since WWII with the bracero program Americans have unknowingly reaped the benefits of migrant labor. If all the Mexicans went away our houses would be seriously lacking produce, meats, clothing, etc. Because there would be no way to supply the demand without some serious system change. I also feel you truly can't dictate in a sociological sense, who has a right to be here when this is stolen land. Being Mexican I see the way people look at me in certain areas of the city and it scares me that some people are still trapped in that rascist mentality of the 50's. There have been numerous hate crimes involving whites attacking migrants without provocation in the country. This mentality has got to stop.

Thanks again Billy for your honest post.

And Rugrunnner begins his insulting in 5,4,3,2,...

andytv
Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:28:00 AM
"America" is a Spanish Word???
TrannyMk
Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:52:00 AM
This whole immigration problem at the southern border is all because Mexico has a crappy economy.

Tey, dont you think it would be better for everyone, if Mexican folks loved living in their own country and stayed there?

Fox isnt a good leader. If they could improve living conditions in Mexico, it would solve many of our border problems.

I'd like to hear you admit that Mexico has created a problem that they want Americans to fix. It's not fair to American citizens or Mexican citizens.

Fox needs to go now!

ruggysgirl
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:00:00 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_continent#Naming_of_America 

The earliest known use of the name America for the continents of the Americas dates from 1507. It appears on a globe and a large map created by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges. An accompanying book, Cosmographiae Introductio, explains that the name was derived from the Latinized version of the explorer Amerigo Vespucci's name, Americus Vespucius, in its feminine form, America, as the other continents all have Latin feminine names. Christopher Columbus, who had first brought the continents' existence to the attention of Renaissance era voyagers, had died in 1506 (believing, to the end, that he'd discovered and conquered part of India) and could not protest Waldseemüller's decision.

A few alternative theories regarding the continents' naming have been proposed, but none of them have any widespread acceptance. One alternative first proposed by a Bristol antiquary and naturalist, Alfred Hudd, was that America is derived from Richard Amerike, a merchant from Bristol, who is believed to have financed John Cabot's voyage of discovery from England to Newfoundland in 1497. Supposedly, Bristol fishermen had been visiting the coast of North America for at least a century before Columbus' voyage and Waldseemüller's maps are alleged to incorporate information from the early British journeys to North America. The theory holds that a variant of Amerike's name appeared on an early British map (of which however no copies survive) and that this was the true inspiration for Waldseemüller.

Another theory, first advanced by Jules Marcou in 1875 and later recounted by novelist Jan Carew, is that the name America derives from the district of Amerrique in Nicaragua. The gold-rich district of Amerrique was purportedly visited by both Vespucci and Columbus, for whom the name became synonymous with gold. According to Marcou, Vespucci later applied the name to the New World, and even changed the spelling of his own name from Alberigo to Amerigo to reflect the importance of the discovery.

Vespucci's role in the naming issue, like his exploratory activity, is unclear. Some sources say that he was unaware of the widespread use of his name to refer to the new landmass. Others hold that he promulgated a story that he had made a secret voyage westward and sighted land in 1491, a year before Columbus. If he did indeed make such claims, they backfired, and only served to prolong the ongoing debate on whether the "Indies" were really a new land, or just an extension of Asia.

*******************************************************

One big problem with illegal immigration of any person,

no matter where they are from, is the introduction of disease. Yeah, there are job issues and tax issues and welfare issues. Did you know that tuberculosis is on the rise again, after nearly being wiped out in this country? That is just one example. Most of these diseases are highly communicable, and these folks aren't getting health care for a number of reasons. Then we go to the market and use the same shopping cart or stand next to someone who is infectious and we most likely would have no immunity to whatever it is. That is how epidemics get started.

Heather

Charlie
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:04:00 AM
I have to agree with TrannyMk's post regarding Fox and the Mexican economy or lack of an economy!

They like so many other countries expect the USA to fix it for them, thus increasing our debts! Close the borders! Put National Guard on them until we can build up the Border Patrol!

Charlie

TrannyMk
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:10:00 AM
andytv

I've never heard that 'America' is a word that originated in Mexico. But, technically they are also the United States of America, but Mexico.

If you look a Mexican money it says Estados Unidos(United States)on it. Mexico is part of North America.

I believe though officially it's 'Los Estados Unidos de Mexico'.

Now back to our regularly scheduled debate!

ruggysgirl
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:27:00 AM
Hi Tey,

You have a good point about people not wanting immigrants here. That has ever been the case. If you look back in American history you will find that just about all classes of immigrant, with the exception of a very few, were looked upon with distain. My friends in the UK feel the same way about the Somali immigrants that are swamping them there. I doubt very highly that this particular issue is wholly American. It appears to be one of human nature.

If you refer to Rick's post on the Misc. board about "Ape to Man" you will see that the Neanderthal may have been driven to extinction in part by the influx and success of Homo sapein sapiens. We are programmed on a very basic level to protect what we feel is ours, whether it really is or not. It is difficult to overcome instinct. That is why there are so many sex crimes, but that is a topic for another thread. This is, of course, a simplistic example, but you are intelligent so I don't think you need me to go on forever about it.

As for Rug and his insults, it appears to me that the two of you enjoy going back and forth on some level. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I apologize. Just an outsider's perspective.

Heather

BigPapi68
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:33:00 AM
Mexicans aren't the only illegals in the USA,Europeans and Asians are also here illegally.Just thought I'd throw that in.

btw i'm not mexican.

TrannyMk
Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:38:00 AM
BigPapi68

I'm sure that you are correct. But not nearly to the extent that Mexicans have. It's much easier to come here by foot rather than by boat or plane from overseas.

ruggysgirl
Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:08:00 AM
Good point! There are lots of Canadian illegals, too.

Heather

tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:42:00 AM
Heather thank you for the informative post. I agree with the other posters that ofcourse Mexicans aren't the only immigrants coming hear. However Mexicans receive the most disdain and whenevetr anti immigrant groups pop up who are they mainly targeting? You don't hear anyone saying we gotta get all these damn swedes off our block. Atleast in the sothwest/west coast.
andytv
Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:01:00 AM
I wish we could get rid of the Amish.
ruggysgirl
Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:13:00 AM
Poor Andy! We saw several Amish furniture stores on the way to LaCrosse. One in particular had signs in the windows that proclaimed "Amish here now!" Rug and I looked at each other and said, "Boy, wouldn't Andy love that!"

Heather

rugrunner
Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:23:00 PM
Tey, that's becouse 6 illegal swedes came here last year. If it were 6 million swedes you here about it plenty. The racist line is bs. I don't like people that break the law. Maybe speeding, jay walking, isom smoking etc aren't so bad, but real laws, that pisses me off. If millions of swedes were coming here and undcutting the labor market I would want then stopped. Also, when the majority of imigrants were swedes, irish, chinese, italians etc there was even more hatred and hate crimes directed at them then at Mexicans(and other spanish speakers from south of the border)now.
andytv
Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:26:00 PM
6 million illegal Swedes???? Uff Da...........think of all those meatballs.........and you'd have to build more IKEA stores.
tey
  • tey
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
Sunday, August 14, 2005 4:03:00 PM
Rug you just proved my point. You have double standards. What the heck is a "real" law? Certain law breaking is okay but when it involves others it is illegal? I don't get it. The way I see it is there is law established by law makers and those that are basic human rights though they may not be written law. This world should be one in which people are free to travel where they please. Do you think a rattlesnake or a javalina crosses that imaginary line and starts thinking differently because he is in America? No, and it should'nt be any different for a man.

I can give you another example of law breaking:

1833 Britain abolishes slavery in her colonies ? America is becoming increasingly isolated as a nation that allows slavery

1835 Santa Anna, President of Mexico, proclaims a unified constitution for all Mexican territories, including Texas ? North American settlers in Texas announce that they intend to secede from Mexico rather than give up their "right" to slavery, which Mexico had abolished.

rugrunner
Sunday, August 14, 2005 4:32:00 PM
HUH? I am not overly concerned with jay walking or speeding. I am opposed to people coming here illegally. there is a difference. Also, when the swedes came here they did there best to fit in. There was no bi lingual education. They did not sue for thier"rights" when they were here legally, much less if they came in illegally. My Grandmother was an illegal Norwiegian imigrant.She came to ellis island and was turned away becouse they had filled the quata for norwiegians for the year. She went to Canada and snuck in. She spent 70 years hiding and being ashamed of it. Many of the illegal Mexicans coming here today are illegally in your face. They demand and take advantage of the PC mentallity while refusing to learn english or trying to assimilate. Big difference.