Socialized medicine sure is a problem, for the 17% of Americans who have no insurance. It doesn't matter what country you live in, if you're rich, you can purchase top notch healthcare just as you could any other commodity.

The old and poor don't have a problem getting healthcare in America, we have medicare and medicaid.

The Rich and middle class don't have a problem, they either have money or get it through their employer.

The vast majority of uninsured Americans are young working families. Because they don't have the liquid cash to afford healthcare, and their employers won't cover them, they go without pre-natal care, without early childhood care, dental care etc. When the choice is either rent, food, or healthcare, guess what the weekly paycheck goes to?

Lack of national health care in America puts us on par with third world countries, where pockets of poverty incubate TB, HIV, crime and ignorance. America is the single industrialized nation on the planet that neglects its own citizens' health. South Africa was the last nation to abandon this barbaric social policy. It's a national shame. The politicians don't like it, the people don't like it, it's a bizarre phenomenon propogated by corporate interests.

Forcing working class people to go without medical care when they get sick reflects poorly on us as a society, and we're the only civilized nation on the planet that continues to do so.

From Fidel to healthcare... this thread's got what you need.

Well there's somethings good about socialism and some things bad about it. Likewise, there's some things good about free trade and some things bad about it. The goal of an enlightened society is go craft a workable combination of what's best for the majority of their citizens, at the most reasonable cost. Viva Adam Smith, viva Marx, whatever gets the job done.

'....The Rich and middle class don't have a problem, they either have money or get it through their employer.

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I have to disagree with the Middle Class not having a problem, Dr. Pep. Yes, the middle class has coverage but the costs have more than quadrupled in 5 years.

I work for a medical group. I'm lower middle class. Thankfully my wife's insurance covers me. My coworkers have 2,000 deductibles per family member (or a family deductible of $6,000). About $180 comes out of their checks every month.

If they go out of network, its a 4k deductible and coverage at 60%. This is the insurance people get that WORK for a healthcare institution.

Insurance companies are the #1 culprit (worked for one for 4 years).

Lawyers are the #2 problem.

The middle class has insurance, but at high costs. The rich and poor have it much better than the middle class.

Back to the thread reason- Fidel.

I'm no Fidel lover, but if Bautista wasn't so damn corrupt, the revolution would have never happened and we'd be vacationing in Cuba and smoking really good cigars while doing it.

MACS(SW), I agree there will be some furious buying going on. But when the curiosity wears off, it should calm down some. I'm sure a few will be hooked once they try one, but that's good for business. It just might bring some prices down too. It's a good thing.

Heather, I agree. "Free" health care isn't.

Dr Pepper,

If being on par with other nations means becoming another socialist nation, you can keep it. There is nothing good about socialism

Drathaar, you know not whereof you speak. You're blindly touting an ideology with no forethought of understanding, function, or utility. Your older family members get medicare like anyone else, and most of us went to public schools. Stick to cigars.

8Track, the middle class are starting to feel the squeeze for sure. Were leaving 15% of GDP and headed for 20%, and believe you me, somebody's going to pay. See post 13 for the real reason, it's not lawyers or insurance companies; those costs make up only a fraction of the total. For example, in 2003 America spent about 1.7 trillion on healthcare, which was about 15% of a GDP of roughly 11.3 trillion. Of that 1.7 trillion, 85-100 billion went to legal and administrative costs. Soon the percentage of GDP paid out for healthcare will be 17.5% ... 20% ... until it cripples the nation's economy. England, Japan, & Sweden get by fine on 6-8% of GDP paid out for healthcare. Soon we'll either have to raise taxes, borrow more money, or suffer severe, long term destabilization in our economy. The longer we put it off, the more it's going to hurt.

DrPepper, that is an unfair accusation. Socialism is not what it is touted to be. Unfortunately we are slipping ever so swiftly toward it. No system is perfect, but I would appreciate the opportunity to live my life as I see fit. As flawed as our system is, at least we still have the opportunity to make a few decisions for ourselves.

The MIL has to travel to Finland and Denmark to buy her meat because the Norwegian government has decided that red meat is not a healthful choice, so if you decide to eat it you are going to pay top dollar for it. Same with chocolate. And cigarettes. I would imagine their cigars are outrageous, as well. The extra money goes toward paying for the State healthcare system. Which would not remove her brain tumor, btw. It wasn't malignant, so they put her on a waiting list, even though it was causing her debilitating headaches. She came back here to MN to have it removed. When I worked at Abbott Northwestern Hospital we treated a lot of patients from socialized economies who wanted better healthcare than they could get at home.

Heather

You guys are pissing in the wind. America's, and most states' budgets, go about 30% to healthcare, about 30% to education, with the other 30% to defense and misc. America already is a socialist country and has been for a long time. The states with low social pay outs, like Louisianna and Mississippi are arm-pits of neglect. And guess who pays for it all. About 30% from the middle class (taxes), about 30% from fines fees etc. and the other third coming from misc. Guess who doesn't pay? Folks like Bill Gates or his company. That's how it works and that's what America is.

not!!!

Pablo, you live in Hawaii where there's state mandated healthcare. Tell the good folks here how it ruined Hawaii.

wellfair state

LOL welfare state but that besides the point...

its fair if your working, no lotto, and I Know Gates pays his fair share and I know its more than all of us.

You know how much Bill Gates pays in federal income taxes? If he pays a dime he's getting majorly screwed by his accountants.

thats funny, I'll ask him the next time he's here.

Dr Pepper,

Is it kinda like I didn't know anything about states rights? Facts > your opinion.

We do have social programs, started by FDR. Funny how the program is in the tank, no?

"You guys are pissing in the wind."

Again... the poster asserts his intelligence and our ignorance.

Do you ever get tired of singing your own praises?

Rick, NOTHING is really FREE!

I agree with most of what Dr. Pepper said.

I think another big problem with our healthcare system is all the stupid rules and regulations that are dumped on hospitals, Doctors and other healthcare facilities.

Where I work, there are so many middle managers that work to try to satisfy all the rules the State, the Feds and other accrediting organizations impose that is is not even funny. These are people that don't provide any direct care to patient, but they add a ton of costs to the healthcare system. All of these regulators keep making new rules to try to idiot proof healthcare. Evey new rule comes at a big cost in terms of manpower to comply. Most are unfunded mandates, which means the money to comply comes directly from money that should be used for patient care. Multiply that by the thousands of healthcare organizations in the country and you have a huge financial burden.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be rules and regulations to follow, but it is getting out of hand. There are too many Chiefs in our healthcare system and not enough Indians.