HockeyDad
15 years ago

After all these years, Iraq is a lost cause. And, will never be successful in the ground war.

rfenst wrote:



Do you realize that we already won the ground war and peace has broken out?



We weren't protecting Saudis, Kuwaitis, and oil supplies. Those nations were already packed full of US troops and weren't in danger. Turkey wasn't in danger. Iran wasn't in danger. Jordan wasn't in danger, Syria wasn't in danger. Europe wasn't months away from being in range of long range nukes.

The only thing that was in danger was maybe a SCUD missle hitting a US base in Kuwait......or Israel. Even US aircraft crisscrossing over Iraq daily weren't in any real danger other than metal fatigue on the airframe.

We eliminated a threat....just like we've been asked to do with Iran now.
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frankj1
15 years ago
Israel was asked by, and cooperated with, the US to stay out of this war. Somehow they remained restrained when scuds were bouncing on sidewalks in their cities. They laughed then at how pathetic Iraq was, knowing to a man that they could enter and end a war with Iraq in a couple of days...max! Do not buy that they needed us to protect them, I'm sure their intelligence had more info than ours about this great "threat". And if they needed protection, why shouldn't it be universally accepted foreign policy that the US aid the ONLY DEMOCRACY in the area, one of maybe a couple nations in the entire world that would assist us if we were attacked. Ya think Yes U Are A Fart would have helped us? Suuuuuure he would. And Osama is Saddam.

Hard to believe, but Clinton had Iraq and Saddam under control, they couldn't get a plane out of there to hurt us or Israel with the Fly Zones. His people were abused, but so are Chinese, N Koreans, etc etc. Let them revolt, just like many here advise Cubans to do.

We did not eliminate a threat because he was only a threat to his own people. But to our benefit, he kept the anti-US terrorists and the religious zanies out of Iraq...until the borders fell.




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teedubbya
15 years ago
One thing we do know is that we should not consider the occupation of either Iraq or Afg. in terms of the impact on our economy. History has shown that the invasion of such countrries makes the superpower stronger economically and is never a drain.

and Hans Blix is an efftard.
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cbc812
15 years ago
TG - I wasn't quite against everything Dubya did. I fully supported the Afghan invasion and pursuit of OBL, which happened to be one of the strongest strategic arguments against the misadventure in Iraq.

In any event, you must remember the hysteria in the time leading up to the Iraq invasion. Those who opposed the war for reasons strategic, fiscal, or just because they saw the reasoning for the bull**** it was were vilified as terrorist sympathizers, surrender monkeys, America-haters. Lack of support for the war was equated to lack of support for our troops. The rhetoric was childish and incredibly inaccurate, but had the desired effect on dissent among the decision makers.

So forgive those of us who accurately saw the Iraq invasion as a tragic mistake predicated on lies for taking a sardonic victory lap when we are once again proven absolutely correct.
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HockeyDad
15 years ago
Eliminating a threat is not the same as "protection". Israel doesn't need military protection from any nation in the Middle East. What they need sometimes is politically viable military solutions which have someone else do their dirty work. What they need at ALL times is financial assistance. Although Israel could wipe out any of their neighbor's military, Israel can't afford the economic hit that happens every time they shut down the country to go to war and they can't afford to put troops on the ground. Israel truly can easily afford quick air wars. Beyond that things get very difficult.
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teedubbya
15 years ago
I voted for Bush and was behind him up until Iraq.... I even gave him the benefit of the doubt up until the Powell UN speach. Then it was oh **** we got nothin. It was pretty clear then...unless you just really wanted to believe.... which is ok I guess.

What is funny is the other day I caught myself wanting to give the big O the benefit of the doubt that he knew more about the situaiton in Egypt then we give credit for and thats what drove his decision making. bnnnnnn wrong answer. Sigh... Bush ruined me.

Funny though how the very people that defended that dolt to the end and kept claiming there was more we don't know as the rationale do the exact opposite to the Prez they don't like. I guess thats human nature. if you consider sheeple humans.
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HockeyDad
15 years ago

I voted for Bush and was behind him up until Iraq.... I even gave him the benefit of the doubt up until the Powell UN speach. Then it was oh **** we got nothin. It was pretty clear then...unless you just really wanted to believe.... which is ok I guess.

What is funny is the other day I caught myself wanting to give the big O the benefit of the doubt that he knew more about the situaiton in Egypt then we give credit for and thats what drove his decision making. bnnnnnn wrong answer. Sigh... Bush ruined me.

Funny though how the very people that defended that dolt to the end and kept claiming there was more we don't know as the rationale do the exact opposite to the Prez they don't like. I guess thats human nature. if you consider sheeple humans.

teedubbya wrote:




It is OK. You can just say JPotts!
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teedubbya
15 years ago
LMAO in my GHWB voice "nah gon doit"

I actually think about him when reading the recent reports on the toyota brake issue.
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HockeyDad
15 years ago
The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally.

But before everyone pats themselves too much on their backs, the "No war for oil" crowd were as equally wrong as the "Iraq will nuke us in less than a year" crowd.

In the end, the Iraqi threat to the world was eliminated. It just turns out that the threat was a lot more wimpy than many believed. Russia, Germany, and France got it right.
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teedubbya
15 years ago
Just say it. You would hug the UN if your arms were longer
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frankj1
15 years ago
^
believe it or not, I agree with most of this. But this war had nothing to do with Israel. Iraq was not a serious threat. Countries and radical organizations that do not show Israel on their World maps are threats to their existence. How can one negotiate with those who live by a slogan of "from the river to the sea".

If I am correct in inferring a sort of "public relations" issue or world opinion angle for Israel from your words, I believe you misunderstand the mindset of a country under seige. They don't give a crap what the world thinks...they think "survive". Never Again is not a catchy marketing slogan. I apologize if I am putting words in your mouth.

Financial assistance to Israel makes sense for Americe, the payback far outweighs the dollars, many of which do come back. Has the roughly same aid to Eqypt paid off over the decades? Would they fight along side us if push came to shove?
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DrafterX
15 years ago
I think Egypt hates us too.... at least one of them on tv last week said they did.... 😟
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teedubbya
15 years ago
"But before everyone pats themselves too much on their backs, the "No war for oil" crowd were as equally wrong as the "Iraq will nuke us in less than a year" crowd."

I'm ok with war for oil. But I also think the no war for oil crowd was wrong as well. They gave Cornwallace Bush too much credit. He is simply a dolt.
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cbc812
15 years ago
"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!
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frankj1
15 years ago
31 for 25

Frank
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DrafterX
15 years ago

"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!

cbc812 wrote:





the HockeyDad believes the 911 conspriracy..?? 😕
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tailgater
15 years ago

TG - I wasn't quite against everything Dubya did. I fully supported the Afghan invasion and pursuit of OBL, which happened to be one of the strongest strategic arguments against the misadventure in Iraq.

In any event, you must remember the hysteria in the time leading up to the Iraq invasion. Those who opposed the war for reasons strategic, fiscal, or just because they saw the reasoning for the bull**** it was were vilified as terrorist sympathizers, surrender monkeys, America-haters. Lack of support for the war was equated to lack of support for our troops. The rhetoric was childish and incredibly inaccurate, but had the desired effect on dissent among the decision makers.

So forgive those of us who accurately saw the Iraq invasion as a tragic mistake predicated on lies for taking a sardonic victory lap when we are once again proven absolutely correct.

cbc812 wrote:



Unfortunately, you're right about the "anti-American" BS.
But how did you personally "know" that the Iraq invasion was predicated on lies?
No one in congress knew, and the few countries who cried foul were proven to be in bed with Saddam to begin with.

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HockeyDad
15 years ago

"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!

cbc812 wrote:




Actually if it weren't for terrorism on 9-11, the USA would have gone right along with the current plan of not really giving a rat's azz about Iraq.

But as far as terrorism against the American people.....

Patriot Act

....and soon the CyberTerrorism Act
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frankj1
15 years ago
re 37

no weapons were found

and

No Iraquis were involved in 9/11.

That's how.
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DrMaddVibe
15 years ago

In any event, without WMD's we're slowly watching the quiet minions arise from their slumber to point one last finger at Dubya before they have to make a determination regarding the current situation and "their guy" who's in the office now.

tailgater wrote:




Well, there's the rub.

The Kenyan King campaigned HARD that he would end the wars.

He's escalated them.

The finger pointing at W...for acting on the very same intel that previous administrations had is something that I don't understand.

9-11-01 changed the way we look at nations that harbor WMD, terrorists or even terrorists plots.

"Curveball" was known to be a liar a LONG time ago. Instead, they used part of his lies to package the war effort and gin up support.

My caveat in this is that we attacked the wrong nation. We should've gone after Saudi Arabia and taken the head off the "serpent".
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