If a real war ever broke out that threatened the USA, our most trusted ally will once again be the United Kingdom. Next will be France and Germany and then the rest of NATO. Israel doesn't have the economic means to come to our aid in any measurable capacity.

Concentration camps have existed during every war. The USA had them in WW2, the Korean Peace Action, the Vietnam Peace Action, and both Iraq conflicts. It is not a German/Jewish/Holocaust term. Israel is running concentration camps, not Nazi-style extermination camps. Israel is not enacting the Final Solution to deal with the Palestinian problem. Israel's concentration camps have no endgame. They can't exterminate the Palestinians, they can't annex the land because it would screw up the Jew/Arab population balance in Israel, and the Palestinians won't leave.

Israel is not surrounded by four walls. Israel is not surrounded by nations committed to its destruction. Israel has peace and normalized relations with Jordan and Egypt, it's two longest borders. The threats of imminent destruction and cries of "Never again" are over exaggerated for political purposes, one of which is to suck US money in. Everybody knows that Israel will turn the entire Middle East into a nuclear wasteland before being overrun. None of the real or perceived threats can explain the need for the Gaza and West Bank concentration camps.

The opposition does recognize Israel's right to exist. The opposition does show Israel on the map but with different borders. Iran recognized Israel's right to exist until the Shah fell from power. The Palestinian Authority recognizes Israel's right to exist. The PA doesn't recognize Israel as a "Jewish State" as demanded in the recent peace talks. I don't care for theocracies as well.

Too many people on all sides stay in power in the Middle East by perpetuating war. Peace neuters them. Arafat is a great example. It serves him right that the French killed him.

It is time to give up on the West Bank land grab. It is time to get USA taxpayer money out of Israel. When Israel wants peace, we can talk.

Agreeing with Le HockeyDad on all points.

HockeyDad should be an ambassador or czar of something. At the very least he should be a talking head on cable news.

I accept/truly believe that most of it is not purposeful. Perhaps akin to someone saying "some of my best friends are black" and truly not understanding what the black guy hears and feels when those words are spoken.

Without making this low-tech writer actually dredge up posts, how about examples such as..."yawn" which I have seen once or twice when the Holocaust is mentioned as a topic, not as a comprison. I have seen references suggesting that Jews have skewed the real number of those that were extinguished and that some real scholastic research should be done. Need I go on or do you recall seeing such posts? Tell me why that is not baiting? Hell, research all ya want, I'll give you all the names of survivors you could ever want to interview, including the war criminals captured or free, including German government officials that admit the sickening truth. Should be the easiest research ever done. Ask some heroic American Liberators what they saw....

I do not, however, even think for a second you or HD or Wheel etc. are antisemitic...I nod in agreement when HD points out that questioning the Nation of Israel's politics and policies makes many Jews unfairly play the antisemite card. He generally has cogent (if short on history) points to make. Disagreeing with Israel is not equal to hating Jews..but likening Jewish policy to the nightmare that nearly wiped out an entire religion, well shall we settle on "strongly insensitive"???

I'm sure you'll be glad to know I am done. You either get it or you don't, I have nothing more to add.

Not quite done I guess:

POW camps are not the same as the concentration camps referenced here. Spin all you want, just ain't so. True, torture etc shows up in most, but in our discourse we all know the word references Nazi Germany, not the generic term "concentration camp". The gas bills are much lower in most concentration camps. Ikeed, I keed, insensitive lout that I am.

Without Israel's strategic intelligence and disciplined experience in how to fight those that use apartment complexes as launch sites, you can tell the French and others to stay home, they'll just get hurt.

Israel is very much surrounded by four walls, especially since now the small coastline can be threatened. Peace with E and J came because they both attacked and were thrown back so suddenly and forcefully that they were stupified. Elsewise they'd be sniping from condos with children as human shields for CNN cameras just the same as Hamas et al do daily.

60 years ago the world was like you are now, refusing to believe there's a movement afoot to extinguish Jews/Israel. The fact that Israel has refrained from ending this nonsense should be obvious to you that they prefer peace and the right to CO-exist.

Arafat wanted to perpetuate war because he did not want co-existence, he wanted ALL the land, and so do many of them today. Do not be naive. They are not on the map with modified borders, the have been erased. Be pro-Palestinian if you wish, but do not misrepresent their goals.

Ah, the "land grab". There it is. History's first condemnation of a country pushing back its attackers and keeping the land as a security buffer...and actually having returned most of it in previous attempts at negotiating an eternal peace and the start of a Palestinian homeland. To call it a land grab is to promote the inference that Israel started that war and stole land. Readers, look it up.

If Jews now own the term "concentration camp" and the rest of the world has to use POW, so be it. Israel need to stop running concentration camps where the concentrate Palestinians that are not prisoners of war.

Israel's strategic intelligence and disciplined experience in how to fight those that use apartment complexes as launch sites is not of any value to the USA in a real war. That would only be of value if we are meddling on some middle eastern craphole. This is very different than a real war that threatened the USA. In that situation, Israel would be useless.

If Israel is surrounded by four walls, then Egypt and Jordan are still enemies even though there are peace treaties and normalized relations. That is the mindset of needing to keep creating new enemies, even when the enemies has moved on. Did you know Egypt supplies 40% of Israel's natural gas needs? In Hamas and Hezbollah, Israel has enemies on the border but need to create the illusion of even greater threats. A key aspect of fascism is creating enemies of the state to give the population an external threat.

Arafat didn't want peace. Israel as the enemy gave him power and wealth. Do not be so naive as to not believe that there are arabs and Israelis doing the exact same thing. Keep in mind you have already been convinced that Egypt and Jordan are still the enemies even though there is a peace treaty and the last shot was fired 37 years ago.

Building brand new shiny subdivisions full of houses and townhomes for 700,000 Israelis in occupied West Bank territory is not the same as a country pushing back its attackers and keeping the land as a security buffer. Remember, the West Bank was Jordanian territory and as part of their peace treaty with Israel, they released any claims on it. Why run it as a concentration camp, why not just annex it as part of the nation of Israel and declare everyone citizens???? Jordan won't complain.

But we can't call it a land grab? Sure, all those nice little settlements are just security buffers!

It is not 1939. It is not 1948. It is not 1953. It is not 1967. It is not 1973. Time to move on.

US foreign aid to Israel is 3% of their national budget. Israel was expecting a pay raise that had been promised and new money for another missile system and neither of this appeared in recent US stopgap budgets and they were not pleased.

Cut off the funds.

I agree. End welfare payments to Egypt, Israel and Puerto Rico, etc. Let em stand on their own 2 feet.

I don't care what terms the world uses, it started with terms being used here. We should move off of that, everyone is probably sleeping.

While England, Germany and France may be real friends, have some cash, some expendable military, and hope to hell we will protect them, the new war that will be fought (and I should have said before I had terrorism in mind, not China or N Korea) is perhaps Israel's long suit compared to the experiences of the other three allies. How do you think they have stayed open for business? With superb intelligence and a defense predicated on the accuracy of that info which leads to solid preemptive strikes, ...that's how you stay in biz when you are under seige. And that defense philosophy came from surprise attacks, from being surrounded despite your denial, by enemies. Glad you listed most of the dates. They were surprise attacks riight, not land grabs right? Right??? But you advise the worst is behind them as they sit in the middle of the Middle East in chaos. Think they may disagree?

Remember Iran's previous nuclear plant? Israel knew who those bombs were built for, same as todays nuclear program...premptive strikes are good defense, not aggression as done by Imperialists/expansionists. Entebbee, in and out, no colonies started (yeah, different situation but awesome, eh?) Egypt and Jordan signed on out of paralyzing, crap-in-their-pants fear, not because they suddenly thought the Jews weren't so bad after all. Quite a bit different than saying they are no longer threats. Fear, and realizing Israel and Jews will never again be victims, is how you get Arab nations to sign treaties. Some take longer than others.

If war is so profitable for Israel, why do you say they can not afford it? Pick a side, can't play both. Profitable or not? Skip the "world opinion" answer, if you do not understand that Israel has absolutely no concerns for what France thinks, they simply intend to survive, you never will get it.

Here's a crazy thought. Let's say those oh-so friendly Arab nations (Please note: Iran is not an Arab nation!) sudenly have protesters overthrow the ruling regimes. Maybe you were caught napping, but if Israel naps, it dies in its sleep. You genuinely don't see this? Iran warships pass through the Suez one week later. Trawling for cod? You remarked earlier about US allowed thru by Egypt...um Israel played a part, not your guys in Hamas.

If Israel falls, woe is us!!

When was the last time, or the first time, you saw footage of Israelis chanting "Death to U.S., death to Jews?"

Now you're just cranking up the propaganda.

You seemed to miss the part about explaining the West Bank settlements. Building brand new shiny subdivisions full of houses and townhomes for 700,000 Israelis in occupied West Bank territory is not the same as a country pushing back its attackers and keeping the land as a security buffer. Remember, the West Bank was Jordanian territory and as part of their peace treaty with Israel, they released any claims on it. Why run it as a concentration camp, why not just annex it as part of the nation of Israel and declare everyone citizens???? Jordan won't complain.

One of the things you have to decide is if you are a Zionist or support Zionism. If you do then you support the expulsion of all non-Jews from the biblical land of Zion which includes the Palestinian territories. In that case, forcefully removing or exterminating the Palestinians is perfectly fine. In that case, Israel is the aggressor and this is a Biblical war, a mid-evil war out to right the wrongs of the Muslim conquest and the Christian Crusades. Time to take back all of Zion, not co-exist in peace. I'm not real big on the USA funding that effort. It is possible to support Israel but not Zionism.

Terrorism isn't going to be the new war that threatens the USA that Israel will ride to our rescue. Terrorism is an annoyance and a scare tactic but not a military conquering threat. You're overplaying Israel's true capability to be a military ally. Are the Israel's going to defend Alaska or Hawaii? Please.

Iran didn't have a nuclear plant, Iraq did. No one knows who those bombs were built for because no bombs were ever built. You just got the enemy wrong and leaped forward on their weapons capability. Egypt and Jordan are still enemies. You're creating enemies as fast as you can type. Why are there 700,000 Israelis living in settlements in the West Bank and the USA funding it? It still doesn't add up.

Did you know that international treaties regarding the Suez Canal allow for the passage of any nation's commercial or warships? Israel, France, and Britain played a part that last time it was threatened to be closed and the USSR almost jumped into that war. Did you know that one of the two Iranian ships that passed through the Suez Canal was made by the USA 40 years ago and the other is a supply ship. Soon they will be 1000 miles from Iranian air support and 100 miles from the Israeli Air Force. Yes, Israel is now doomed. We need to increase US funding immediately.

By the way, I never said war was profitable for Israel. I said Israel can't afford war without USA funding. That is the opposite. You just created a straw-man and knocked it down. Meanwhile there 700,000 Israelis living in settlements in the West Bank and the USA is funding it.

By the way, I have no guys in Hamas. You just created another straw-man and knocked it down. You just fell into the trap that anyone who criticizes Israeli policy must be a terrorist.

You are following the standard Israeli political hawkish line of thinking. Peace with arab neighbors can only be had through their complete defeat, fear of Israel, and subjugation. Kinda like the US embargo of Cuba, after 60 years of repeating the same thing expecting different results, you might want to try something new. In the meantime, cut all US funding. We also fund Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt. Screw pay for peace. Let the hawks fight.

By the way, Israelis chanting "Death to Jews" would be pretty stupid.

If Israel falls there will be 200 nuclear warheads detonated all around the Middle East. The radioactive fallout will be woe to us and all of Europe. Israel ain't going nowhere except to more drama acting lessons.

Exterminating Palestinians. Wow, you blew your cool dude. Didn't mean to do that to you, sorry to you and everyone else that may have suffered through this.
Support who you believe is right and who stands with America.

No further reply required.

It's been a blast. Sincerely.


You would have hated Hebrew School and Bar Mitzvah lessons

Frank...heading to cigar forum for ever!

I never blow my cool regardless of topic.

I will accept your surrender and subjugation. However, that still doesn't answer why there are 700,000 Israelis living in settlements in the West Bank and the USA is funding it.

I knew that was "game over" the second I typed it. I also knew the answer already and so do you.

Let's face it, Palestinians suck.

thanks again for opening up.
your humor remiains intact though. s & s, funny.
good recovery

Good night.

Frank

700,000

and a microphone...where it's at![whip]

Does anyone realize that the original subject of this thread was Planned Parenthood and thier PRO abortion agenda?

my fault, Sorry TG and Wheel. Back to the topic...please. I'll behave from now on.

Frank

“You know my bottom line is I think that Planned Parenthood in the past has done good work. If there was a specific problem at this center, it should be addressed, but we shouldn’t get so distracted with some of these issues.” - Barake "The Kenyan King" Odumba

You have got to be kidding yourself!

The original subject was boring.

Some want to ban abortion.
Some want to legalize abortion.
Some don't like abortion but wouldn't ban it.
Planned Parenthood ain't Auschwitz.
Planned Parenthood has some shady origins.


5 posts could have cleared all that up.