Papachristou
15 years ago
nice article about china's building. interesting to note, just 12 of their newest dams will produce more than ALL the hydrodams in hte entire US!


By Rachel Beitarie
Circle of Blue

Photograph by Toby Smith/Reportage by Getty Images for Circle of Blue

CHENGDU, China—Even in China, where power plants, coal mines, water-transport networks, and other big tools of industrialization are built at astonishing scale and with surprising speed, the hydropower dam construction program in Sichuan, Yunnan, Tibet, and other southwest provinces has no equal in China, or anywhere else for that matter.

Here in Suijiang County—a remote and mountainous region on the border between Sichuan and Yunnan provinces—the immense scope of the most aggressive dam-building program in history is immediately apparent. Near the county’s center, an army of men and equipment is building the Xiangjiaba Dam, a wall of concrete and steel that is 909 meters (2,982 feet) long and 161 meters (528 feet) high.

When completed in 2015, the dam will house eight turbines capable of generating just over 6.4 gigawatts. It will be the fourth-largest hydropower plant in China and one of the 20 largest power plants of any kind in the world, according to industry figures.

Rare Civic Protest
The Chinese government’s vigor for hydropower has stirred resistance in villages upriver from the Xianjiaba project, where farmers are about to lose their homes. Filling the reservoir will require 60,000 people to leave. Among them are the residents of Guan Tian village, who were forced to relocate six months ago, well ahead of the scheduled relocation; and in a hurry. Residents were told that the construction was going to cause a landslide that would bury their village.
“Luckily there were no casualties. We all got out in time,” an elderly woman—who, like all of her neighbors, has asked that her name not be mentioned—told Circle of Blue. The entire population of Guan Tian now lives in shacks on rented land. Residents were given temporary compensation of $US 45 a month, though a number of residents complain that, in the last two months, the money has failed to arrive.
In November, protesting villagers blocked traffic to the dam site for eight hours, a farmer in his forties told Circle of Blue. “We were detained for interrupting public order, and a few men were put in administrative detention for two weeks.”
The protests, however, went unheeded by the provincial government officials, as well as those in distant Chongqing—the fastest growing city in the world—which is starving for energy to feed booming industry and a growing middle class. Immense as it is, the Xiangjiaba Dam is just one of a dozen hydropower projects of similar scale in what Chinese engineers call a “cascade” of electricity-generating projects that have been approved for the Jinsha River—a 2,300-kilometer section of the Yangtze River in Sichuan Province. An even larger project, the 278-meter-tall (911-foot) Xiluodo Dam, is nearing completion downstream and will have the capacity to generate 12.6 GW of electricity. Taken together, the 12 Jinsha River dams will be capable of generating 59 GW, or nearly as much power as all 4,000 hydroelectric generating stations in the United States.

China already operates half of the world’s large hydropower dams, and there are more on the way—many more.

Along China’s midsection, the upper Yangtze River and five of its tributaries have 100 big dams that are in various stages of planning, engineering, and construction. Additionally, at least 43 big dams are in the same stages of development on the Lancang, Nujiang, Hongshui, and Jiulong rivers in China’s southwest.

Big Risk, Big Reward
The stakes for China’s dam-building campaign encompass every sector of the economy, as well as a historical and ecological heritage that spans seven southern provinces. The provincial and central government leaders who support China’s program to tame wild rivers with concrete, steel, and stone assert that hydropower provides considerable benefits to reduce air pollution, rein in coal consumption, and generate electricity for fast-growing cities and industries.

But opponents say the dams are wrecking treasured canyons, ruining fisheries, and displacing hundreds of thousands of residents. Some critics worry that most of China’s new big dams are being built in a seismically active region that has experienced a number of big earthquakes, including one in May 2008 that killed 80,000 people in Sichuan Province. A number of scientists theorized that the weight of the lake held back by the 760-MW Zipingpu Dam—built less than two kilometers from a major fault line—may have helped to trigger the disaster.

Just as significantly, opponents note that China is planning to generate a considerable portion of its energy from hydropower, relying on rivers that are becoming more susceptible to droughts. Because of climate change, say scientists, China’s southern region is experiencing longer and more numerous droughts that are lowering water levels.

From 2000 to 2009, China’s total water resources fell 13 percent and almost all of the reduction in rain and snowmelt occurred in southern and southwestern China. From 2004 to 2009, total water reserves in Sichuan Province alone dropped 102 million cubic meters (26.9 billion gallons), or 4 percent, according to China’s National Bureau of Statistics.

RICKAMAVEN
15 years ago
RFENST

please send me an email, i lost your adress

[email protected]
DrMaddVibe
15 years ago
Why not shoot him a PM?

That way you'd be sure he actually saw it versus just guessing that he hit every single thread and read every single post.

Geez, even I only read the ones with the catchy titles![frypan]
Papachristou
15 years ago
Dr, that would only make sense! apparently you forgot rick is a lefty! although i am quite happy to see he stopped typing in all caps =d>
teedubbya
15 years ago
Papa there is a pretty small gap where we disagree. I just have more faith I guess. I still say its a sad shame that it's something to ridicule when someone is optimistic about the future. I've never seen a successful group at anything when they begin with it wont or can't be done. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy (I learned that word reading pygmilian, My Fair Lady for the less learn-ed (hyphanated to accent how I say it like the Brits with my nose in the air and my pinky out on the tea cup)). If saying our best days ahead of us is somehow considered impossible or stupid then pack it in. I honestly do beleive it.

Beleiving it does not make it happen. I said that earlier but no one seems to read that part. It is also not a guarentee. It will take work. We have mountains to move. We've done it before we can do it again. Just like when we tricked the world into thinking we landed on the moon. We built better film studios than them which was as good as landing on the moon because they all beleived it.

But if enough people do not beleive that our best days are ahead of us.... that could become a gaurentee or self fullfilling prophecy.

I do beleive we are in one of those transitions or shifts between ages. Similar to the bronze age, guilded age, the industrial revolution etc. Those that want to cling to what was successful in the past may be disappointed. Sometimes it takes some pain and a slap in the face to push forward. The old broken bone mends stronger cliche. I dunno.

And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe America just sucks, lost its way and we are doomed. Maybe we become a washed up ex superpower on a downward spiral towards being a 3rd world country.... or worse.... France. I just don't think so. I think the resolve is still there. And I do not beleive the only ones with the resolve are in this forum. This forum is a very small part of my life and I see posative things ever day. But even if it is a minority..... it was a very small group of men and wimmins that sparked this country.

I beleived like you do back i nthe 70s and 80s. I don't anymore.
HockeyDad
15 years ago
George Michael says "You gotta have faith".

In the meantime, a new breed of globalist colonists will continue to dismantle the USA experiment and ship the riches back to Europe and off to new asia.

On a glass half full note, if I were in France I would be paying a s%&tload more in taxes than in the USA!
teedubbya
15 years ago

George Michael says "You gotta have faith".

In the meantime, a new breed of globalist colonists will continue to dismantle the USA experiment and ship the riches back to Europe and off to new asia.

On a glass half full note, if I were in France I would be paying a s%&tload more in taxes than in the USA!

HockeyDad wrote:



There are carpetbaggers in every generation. It's good to see they can adapt!
DrMaddVibe
15 years ago

Papa there is a pretty small gap where we disagree. I just have more faith I guess. I still say its a sad shame that it's something to ridicule when someone is optimistic about the future. I've never seen a successful group at anything when they begin with it wont or can't be done. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy (I learned that word reading pygmilian, My Fair Lady for the less learn-ed (hyphanated to accent how I say it like the Brits with my nose in the air and my pinky out on the tea cup)). If saying our best days ahead of us is somehow considered impossible or stupid then pack it in. I honestly do beleive it.

Beleiving it does not make it happen. I said that earlier but no one seems to read that part. It is also not a guarentee. It will take work. We have mountains to move. We've done it before we can do it again. Just like when we tricked the world into thinking we landed on the moon. We built better film studios than them which was as good as landing on the moon because they all beleived it.

But if enough people do not beleive that our best days are ahead of us.... that could become a gaurentee or self fullfilling prophecy.

I do beleive we are in one of those transitions or shifts between ages. Similar to the bronze age, guilded age, the industrial revolution etc. Those that want to cling to what was successful in the past may be disappointed. Sometimes it takes some pain and a slap in the face to push forward. The old broken bone mends stronger cliche. I dunno.

And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe America just sucks, lost its way and we are doomed. Maybe we become a washed up ex superpower on a downward spiral towards being a 3rd world country.... or worse.... France. I just don't think so. I think the resolve is still there. And I do not beleive the only ones with the resolve are in this forum. This forum is a very small part of my life and I see posative things ever day. But even if it is a minority..... it was a very small group of men and wimmins that sparked this country.

I beleived like you do back i nthe 70s and 80s. I don't anymore.

teedubbya wrote:




It's not naysaying, doomsday, boo-hooing the sky is falling guessing. You don't have to read the tea leaves or study the bones of small dead animals to decipher that the debt and its interest are UNSUSTAINABLE! Every great empire has it's setting sun. I've outlined before here a book that would shut down a lot of the "We can fix it" crowd IF they'd take the time to actually read it!

http://www.amazon.com/New-Empire-Debt-Financial-Bubble/dp/0470483261/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303229116&sr=8-1 

It has pretty pictures and graphs and stuff. Some people will want them to be upside down but reality vs perception and all that. Reading is obviously painful.

It has NOTHING to do with any Age, success (past or present), or prophecy. It's basic fundamental Capitalism 101. What did we do? Created a new term...Too Big To Fail and used taxpayer money to reward poor business decisions and inept business leaders backed by a criminal enterprise called the Federal Reserve!!! No matter what touchy-feely nameplate you want to put on it you cannot stop the insanity until the spending is brought into check (pun intended!) and the "sacred cows" (see Military Industrial Complex, Medicare, Welfare and Social Security) are slaughtered! This kicking the can further down the road for the sake of a voting bloc has made things worse. The past 60 years has been a massive Ponzi scheme that if you had set up you would've been sent to prison! The debt keeps on amassing and I've posted the link to the debt clock here before too. If it's not a favorite link...make it one. Watch the numbers climb in just one day! We're going down. The insolvency of the United States of America is an uncertainity. The decisions we let 545 morons put us in for the sake of another term after another term shot the wad. It's nothing I did, or nothing you did. Anyone below the age of 16 in this nation is saddled with a debt they had absolutely nothing to do with. No voice, no claim, no part of it and THAT is a crime! We have indentured servants to debt right here amongst us.


The "emperor" isn't wearing any clothes and it's time to put the rose colored glasses down and see "him" for what "he" is. Face the facts.
teedubbya
15 years ago
We CAN do it. Naysaying is no help. ^ naysayer

And trust me. I know the facts as well or better than you. No rose colored glasses or polly anna filters here. I just beleive we can muster enough resolve to fix things. That is all.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion or approach to things does not mean they do not have all the facts you do. Someone could stipulate the facts and you would still argue with them trying to teach them the facts. Its a nuance you seem to miss. (by the way... gotta fly...literally.... not running away from the convo. Later)
DrMaddVibe
15 years ago

We CAN do it. Naysaying is no help. ^ naysayer

And trust me. I know the facts as well or better than you. No rose colored glasses or polly anna filters here. I just beleive we can muster enough resolve to fix things. That is all.

Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion or approach to things does not mean they do not have all the facts you do. Someone could stipulate the facts and you would still argue with them trying to teach them the facts. Its a nuance you seem to miss. (by the way... gotta fly...literally.... not running away from the convo. Later)

teedubbya wrote:




Please, this is like the 9th time you've made the alter call at the DrMaddVibe shrine...nobody is looking for converts pal!

Who are these people you speak of that will fix "it"?

The moderates, progressives and gimmick candidates?

I can and have listed names of people that "get it" (and have for well over 25 years!!!) but they're the people that get marginalized. You don't fix ANYTHING when that happens. There hasn't been a tide turning event and everyone is still clammoring for a new something or other to blow dough on or go in debt for. It's an institution and people are fools for beliving they HAVE to be a part of it, but those of us that don't get penalized! So, by all means let's see these people that you rely on to right the ship.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

There are carpetbaggers in every generation. It's good to see they can adapt!

teedubbya wrote:




Maybe if you weren't making the carpet and holding the bag it wouldn't be quite so easy.
Papachristou
15 years ago
Tee,

I agree with you actually. It can be done but the reality is that it wont. Corruption is so ingrained into every aspect of politics and human nature not to mention the growing welfare class. You see politicians buying ipads with taxpayer money, our mayor just got a brand new caddy cts. my company bid on it but the car we offered had 850 miles on it but would have saved the city approximately $800 per month over the lease from the dealer. so... that makes sense right? its so extensive, most americans dont have the slightest clue. look at the congressman from harlem, he has a second vacation home in the domincan republic? are you effing kidding me? your represent the poorest district in the entire US, how do you amass that kind of wealth?
OldSchool
15 years ago
Pioneers should have worked their own fields and plantations. We'd all be better off now.
tweoijfoi
15 years ago


On a glass half full note, if I were in France I would be paying a s%&tload more in taxes than in the USA!

HockeyDad wrote:



Yep. And you'd have at least 5 weeks vacation a year. And a 35-hour work week. And free healthcare among other things. But man, it's just so expensive, who'd want that?
HockeyDad
15 years ago

Yep. And you'd have at least 5 weeks vacation a year. And a 35-hour work week. And free healthcare among other things. But man, it's just so expensive, who'd want that?

tweoijfoi wrote:





Who said I didn't have that here already!?

Globalization has its privileges!
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