Poll Question: Have your feelings evolved regarding his actions?
teedubbya
12 years ago



Really what it all comes down is your view of the government as a whole and you can make either argument.

If you are okay with being medicated with the latest medication, distraction, Kardashian and making your way by not working; or working the system, and you want the government to provide security and safety (that they can't secure anyway) and think the federal government of is part of most of the solutions, instead of the current set up being part of the problem, you are already gone.

I have a degree of schadenfreude in me. I hope I'll be dead before the whole thing crashes. The upside is, I'll be able to say I told you so! But probably from work camp in Iowa

Maybe the Chinese will come liberate us some day, by cracking the oppressor's code with the help of Snowden before Atlas shrugs.

8trackdisco wrote:




I don't think it really comes down to that at all. There was a time not too long ago when big government liberals, smaller government conservatives and everyone in between would view an American going to Russia and sharing our spying efforts with other countries as a bad thing. Only fringe folks would have been ok with that. Certainly that would have been true during the time of Ayn Rand.

Now it is odd but quite a few, and a majority in here, find it ok. It shows a disatisfaction with government, which is valid, but it is still a bit much. It takes it too far in my opinion. And as I said, I've been opposed to the entire over reaction to 911 as well as the Patriot Act.

I think the government is inept for the most part and think there should be less of it. They don't do much well but that doesn't mean they don't do anything well or serve any purpose. I guess I'm not much of a mutually exclusive thinker and don't beleive much in the world is 100% one way or the other. Of course somethings are 100% (thought I'd better throw that out before someone suggests that I somehow mean nothing is (that all or nothing mentality again).

I'm also amused at some folks idea of coorelation and cause and effect. If they think this then they must think that. President Obama likes to eat dogs, Rickamaven likes Obama, Rickamaven must like eating dogs. Not thinking everything is black and white does not equate to thinking nothing is black and white. Someone thinks Snowdon is a traitor therefor they must be pro government.

As for Ayn Rand I found her stuff interesting when we studied it, as well as many other folks. She is a product of a very interesting era. It is very interesting stuff, and certainly can be part of ones philosophy, but I never found it practical enough to be all encompasing (not saying anyone in here does) or something you could fall back on as often as some in here do. It is still relevant but so is leave it to beaver to some extent. I hear they are making an Atlas Shrugs movie. I hope it's not claymation.
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Abrignac
12 years ago
Perhaps we as a country have lost some of our sense of pride. There was a time when we as a nation that was able to disagree on issues but, come together in time of need. Now most Americans have a contemptuous view of Washington.

We as a people have come to realize that we no longer have a government of the people for the people, where we ask not what our country can do for us, but a country laden with those looking for a handout, both corporate and individual, and a class of politicians for sale to the highest bidder.

Gone are the days when our voice had meaning with those we elect. Nowadays politicians are beholden to massive amounts of corporate dollars which shape debate.

One only needs to look at the 2013 Virginia Governor's Election. A total of $43,090,496 was spent by candidates looking to secure a job that only pays $700,000 over the four year period of employment. Why would a group of people spend $61.55 for every dollar of salary earned?
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8trackdisco
12 years ago

Why would a group of people spend $61.55 for every dollar of salary earned?

Abrignac wrote:



Another indictment of our failing of our education system; specifically in Math?

Lifetime free healthcare (and not the Obama Care swill they agreed upon, passed, and poured all over America like watered down, generic maple syrup.) The payoffs from the lobbiests (Did you know there is now a Lobbying group specifically working representing..... Lobbiests.) Can it get more inane or insane?

Sure, people in the Reagan & Tip O'Neil days did compromise. But their compromises have us in the mess we are today. A group of corporations got a tax break, and a bunch of people that dont want to do anything but sit on their dead azzes got their hand out too. They just put it on the tab, and a good part of the reason we have 16.8 trillion in debt.

The country was put together and less than 100 years later, 2% of the population died as the country tore itself apart.

It is going to happen again. I'm certain of it. It won't be religion, it will be a nasty mix of race, class, and government ideology. People kid themselves that it can't happen here. Five years ago, it could never happen in Syria.

It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, and it won't. The technology, weaponry and the number of people thriving off of the government teat has more power than the rest.

Best we can hope for is to get a paramilitary job watching the gate and digging through the discarded Chic-fil-a bags at HD's compound.
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Abrignac
12 years ago

Another indictment of our failing of our education system; specifically in Math?

Lifetime free healthcare (and not the Obama Care swill they agreed upon, passed, and poured all over America like watered down, generic maple syrup.) The payoffs from the lobbiests (Did you know there is now a Lobbying group specifically working representing..... Lobbiests.) Can it get more inane or insane?

Sure, people in the Reagan & Tip O'Neil days did compromise. But their compromises have us in the mess we are today. A group of corporations got a tax break, and a bunch of people that dont want to do anything but sit on their dead azzes got their hand out too. They just put it on the tab, and a good part of the reason we have 17.124 trillion in debt.

The country was put together and less than 100 years later, 2% of the population died as the country tore itself apart.

It is going to happen again. I'm certain of it. It won't be religion, it will be a nasty mix of race, class, and government ideology. People kid themselves that it can't happen here. Five years ago, it could never happen in Syria.

It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, and it won't. The technology, weaponry and the number of people thriving off of the government teat has more power than the rest.

Best we can hope for is to get a paramilitary job watching the gate and digging through the discarded Chic-fil-a bags at HD's compound.

8trackdisco wrote:


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8trackdisco
12 years ago

Abrignac wrote:



Thank you for the update.
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jpotts
12 years ago

Another indictment of our failing of our education system; specifically in Math?

Lifetime free healthcare (and not the Obama Care swill they agreed upon, passed, and poured all over America like watered down, generic maple syrup.) The payoffs from the lobbiests (Did you know there is now a Lobbying group specifically working representing..... Lobbiests.) Can it get more inane or insane?

Sure, people in the Reagan & Tip O'Neil days did compromise. But their compromises have us in the mess we are today. A group of corporations got a tax break, and a bunch of people that dont want to do anything but sit on their dead azzes got their hand out too. They just put it on the tab, and a good part of the reason we have 16.8 trillion in debt.

The country was put together and less than 100 years later, 2% of the population died as the country tore itself apart.

It is going to happen again. I'm certain of it..

8trackdisco wrote:



I profoundly disagree. In the 1800s, men were actually men.

Nowadays, a man being a man is an aberration. Most of them don't have the balls anymore to fight for much of anything.

People are too distracted with their new tats, the video games, their fantasy football league, or whatever. It would have to get pretty bad for this to all change, and with the way society is going today, even then I don't see it happening.

The Soviet Union is a prime example of how people can live like slaves and peasants for decades, and with no desire to overthrow tyrants. So long as they get their free stuff, everything is good. After a while you get used to the taste of sh*t sandwiches.
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frankj1
12 years ago

I profoundly disagree. In the 1800s, men were actually men.

Nowadays, a man being a man is an aberration. Most of them don't have the balls anymore to fight for much of anything.

People are too distracted with their new tats, the video games, their fantasy football league, or whatever. It would have to get pretty bad for this to all change, and with the way society is going today, even then I don't see it happening.

The Soviet Union is a prime example of how people can live like slaves and peasants for decades, and with no desire to overthrow tyrants. So long as they get their free stuff, everything is good. After a while you get used to the taste of sh*t sandwiches.

jpotts wrote:


I can not agree with you. Men are still men, but survival requirements have changed radically since the 1800's. Businessmen fight just as fiercely but in a different type of competitive arena, and it requires huge balls to start up and succeed when one puts all of their resources into a new venture. No more need to clear the land and raise food for one's family, to work on jump starting a new nation. Contemporary American society, the greatest in history, has moved well beyond working for mere survival, we are at a point that allows freedom for individuals to develop into much more than providers for the nuclear family unit. And we do.

People are distracted by the distractions that have been developed in a society that has actually succeeded, succeeded in evolving to the point that even many of the lowest earners can afford a lifestyle superior to the Soviet Union...

which leads me to the last point. The Soviet Union blew up. There is still Russia, but most of the sattelite states have broken away. They were not getting much free stuff, mostly they were just getting **** sandwiches and they actually hated the taste. Name a car that was sold outside of the former Soviet Union. Their refrigerators blew. They couldn't produce creature comforts, minor luxuries (oxymoron?), enough bread to go around, blah blah blah. They met their demise, and it was forced by a disatisfied population that could not be held together by one of the mightiest superpowers in history.
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8trackdisco
12 years ago


The Soviet Union is a prime example of how people can live like slaves and peasants for decades, and with no desire to overthrow tyrants. So long as they get their free stuff, everything is good. After a while you get used to the taste of sh*t sandwiches.

jpotts wrote:



A couple of differences to consider.

1- The Russian people have more freedoms now than in anyone's lifetime. 80 years of communism, with the Czar system keeping their face in the mud long before that.

2- the Russians citizenry doesn't have the right to keep and bear arms. No guns, no bullets, no problems. Different here. Plus, most of the people with the guns are the people that have busted their azzes, spent their lives doing the right thing, and being more indepeendent vs dependent.

3- if the government cuts veteran benefits, there will be hundreds do thousands of well trained, pissed off, tough, self reliant people with little to lose.

They swore an oath, but so did their government. The government broke the deal first.
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