Electric vehicles - what does the future hold? · Page 73

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DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1441

Nearly Half of US EV Owners Regret Purchase

To listen to the Biden administration, the situation with electric vehicles is going swimmingly. People love them. Government subsidies make them more affordable. As a bonus, you get the pride and satisfaction of knowing that you're doing your part to rescue Mother Earth from carbon emissions or whatever. But according to a recent survey from McKinsey and Co. conducted this month, people remain unconvinced, particularly in the United States. They polled EV owners in nine countries and found that 46% of American owners of EVs want to switch back to gas-powered cars with internal combustion engines. There were lower levels of dissatisfaction in some other nations, but nearly half of American owners are experiencing regret.

Nearly half of American owners of electric cars want to switch back to traditional cars powered by internal combustion engines, according to a consumer survey released by McKinsey and Co. earlier this month.

The consulting firm surveyed consumers in multiple countries: the U.S., China, Germany, Norway, Australia, France, Italy, Japan and Brazil. Between all of those countries, 29% of electric car owners want to return to driving internal combustion cars, with 46% of surveyed American electric car owners wanting to do so. This surprised the consulting firm, cutting against received wisdom about people’s switch to electric.

The survey asked owners about the primary reason leading them to want to switch back. The responses were the same ones we've been hearing about ever since the EV mandates began rolling out. The largest percentage cited a lack of charging infrastructure. Nearly as many said that the vehicles are too expensive to purchase and maintain. Others said that planning long trips was too difficult or that they were unable to recharge their vehicles at home.

Current economic conditions both in the United States and abroad are also impacting people's decisions when it comes to whether or not to purchase an EV. Everything is too expensive for many people these days, including vehicles and electric utility costs. (Not to mention food and everything else.) Driving up their costs further just for the privilege of having an EV simply isn't an option. A significant percentage of the drivers who were surveyed said that they planned to "downgrade" to a less expensive vehicle when making their next purchase regardless of which type of car they currently own.

As already noted, the outlook isn't nearly as gloomy in other countries. According to one estimate, the global market for EVs is predicted to rise to roughly 30 million sales annually by 2027. But that increase will not be driven by the United States. Demand in America has flattened and may even begin to recede in the near future. Enthusiasm among our globalist friends overseas always tends to be higher and they have bought into the entire climate change alarmism paradigm more uniformly.

The exception in that forecast and a potential bright spot for EV fans comes to us from Ford. They set a record for EV sales in the first half of 2024, largely based on a surge in sales of electric pickup trucks and their E-Transit vans. That's the good news. The bad news is that they are still losing a vast amount of money on each EV they sell. Also, even while setting a record, Ford is still only ranked second in the United States in EV sales. Tesla outsells them each year by a seven-to-one margin. Yet that's still a small portion of the total marketplace. Tesla's customers tend to be at the upper end of the earning spectrum and the vehicles are considered luxury cars. The outlook is different for people who need to save every dollar they can when deciding on their next vehicle.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2024/06/23/poll-nearly-half-of-us-ev-owners-regret-purchase-n3790784

Half eh?

So....much...tech...

Edited by user a year ago | Reason: Not specified

tonygraz
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1442

Here is a positive song based on commentary by someone a Madman must like:

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1443

Nearly half of American EV owners want to switch back to gas-powered vehicle, McKinsey data shows
Story by Breck Dumas • 1d

A significant share of Americans who own an electric vehicle have buyer's remorse, according to new data.

McKinsey & Co.'s Mobility Consumer Pulse for 2024, released this month, found that 46% of EV owners in the U.S. said they were "very" likely to switch back to owning a gas-powered vehicle in their next purchase.

The high percentage of Americans who want to make a switch even surprised the consulting firm.

"I didn't expect that," the head of McKinsey's Center for Future Mobility, Philipp Kampshoff, told Automotive News. "I thought, 'Once an EV buyer, always an EV buyer.'"

In the poll of nearly 37,000 consumers worldwide, Australia was the only country with a greater percentage, 49%, of EV owners than the U.S. who said they were ready to return to owning an internal combustion engine.

The other countries included in the survey were Brazil, China, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and Norway. Across all countries surveyed, the average share of respondents who want to ditch their EVs was 29%.

The biggest reason EV owners cited for wanting to return to owning a gas-powered vehicle was the lack of available charging infrastructure (35%); the second-highest reason cited was that the total cost of owning an EV was too high (34%). Nearly 1 in 3, 32%, said their driving patterns on long-distance trips were affected too much due to having an EV.

McKinsey found that consumers' satisfaction globally with charging availability has improved some since last year's survey but noted it "still has a long way to go."

Of the EV owners across all countries, 11% said the infrastructure where they live is well set up in terms of charge points, 40% said there were not enough chargers along highways and main roads, and 38% said there were not enough chargers in close proximity to them.

The findings come years into the Biden administration's push for U.S. consumers and automakers to embrace EVs and reinforce other recent polling that indicates a major chunk of Americans are still not sold on going all-electric.

To further Biden's EV agenda, Democrats passed infrastructure legislation in 2021 that committed billions of taxpayer dollars to building a half million charging stations in the U.S. by the end of the decade.

But three years later, only seven federally funded chargers have been built to date, and the slow progress has sparked condemnation from both sides of the political aisle.

Original article source: Nearly half of American EV owners want to switch back to gas-powered vehicle, McKinsey data shows

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1444

EV Boosters Cannot Do Math

According to Electrly, the electric vehicle charging manufacturer, it takes an average of 90 kilowatt-hours of electricity to fully charge a Tesla Model Y long range all-wheel-drive vehicle, 83 kWh for the Model Y performance version, and 67 kWh for the standard range Model Y.

Each Tesla uses between 0.24 to 0.30 kWh per mile, or about 4,500 kWh over a year for 15,000 miles of driving. Other electric vehicles use more or less, but within a similar range. At 0.30 kWh per mile, that’s 90 kWh for 300 miles of driving for the typical week.

The average American household without an in-home EV charging station consumes about 30 kWh per day, or about 10,720 kWh over a year’s time. With just one electric vehicle being charged at home, that total increases to about 15,220 kWh. For two-EV households, that total runs up to nearly 20,000 kWh per year (assuming both drivers commute to work). That’s nearly double current electricity usage for such families.

Without an EV in the garage, air conditioning uses nearly a fifth of household electricity, followed by space heating and water heating (a combined 25%). But adding just one home-charged EV changes that calculus dramatically. The EV takes up about 30% ot the much higher total electricity use, dropping the share for all other uses significantly.

Two home-charged EVs would eat up nearly half the household’s total electricity usage – and require thousands of dollars to upgrade the house’s electric panel. Today’s 50-kva transformers, which cost about $8,000 each, can power about 60 homes; that number drops closer to 40 if each of those homes houses one electric vehicle, closer to 30 with two EVs using home chargers.

For a city with 120,000 homes, which today may require about 2,000 transformers, the addition of 120,000 home-charged electric vehicles means adding 1,000 transformers, about $8 million. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg, because distributing 50 to 100% more household electricity requires generating 50 to 100% more electricity.

All this costs money that most Americans today do not have, especially at the generation end. Especially with the push to eliminate electric generation from coal and natural gas and even nuclear energy. It also requires massive construction of electric infrastructure, from transmission lines to transformers to in-home charging stations accompanied by larger electric fuse boxes.

One might see all this as a great booster of the economy. One problem with this is that the U.S. is projected to have a shortfall of 550,000 electricians by 2027. Who will do all this work? Another problem is that most “studies” of the impact of electrifying the vehicle fleet and relying nearly entirely on wind and solar energy pay little attention to the impact on individual households and local communities.

Who will benefit – and who will be harmed? The “experts” either do not know or will not say.

Do they play chess? Do they realize that wise policy making requires a chess-like approach of evaluating the impact of today’s moves six or seven moves down the road?

Then there are the side issues.

Many of those who strongly advocate for an all-EV future live in cities governed by progressives whose public officials have been “soft” on property crimes. This may explain why thieves in the Seattle metro area have stolen the copper cables from over 100 EV charging stations in the past 12 months, leaving these stations totally useless until the cables are replaced (and then, often as not, stolen again).

Belgian firefighters are lobbying to ban the parking of electric vehicles in underground garages, just as liquefied petroleum gas vehicles without safety valves cannot park in them. The reason?

It takes up to 70 hours to extinguish an EV electric fire by immersing the vehicle in a skip filled with water – which can hardly be done in an underground car park. Worse, the water used to extinguish these fires reveals a chemical load up to 70 times higher than typical load limits for industrial wastewater.

Ars Technica reports one concern motorists have with buying EVs is the shortfall of public charging stations. The U.S. Department of Energy says that, of the nation’s 64,000 public charging stations, only 10,000 are direct current chargers that can replenish an EV battery is 30 minutes rather than several hours – and that’s if there is no line.

What the EV-promoting journal misses in its excuse-me post is that those fueling up at the nation’s 120,000 gasoline and diesel stations can do so in far less than 30 minutes, usually waiting a maximum 60 seconds to access a free pump.

As the old adage says, time is money.

Speaking of money, remember that Biden Administration promise two years ago to spend $7.5 billion to install about 20,000 EV charging stations with up to 500,000 charging points in operation? As of March 2024, only seven of these stations had been built with Biden dollars.

Maybe the reason is a lack of qualified personnel, maybe a lack of spare parts. Or is this money going down the same rabbit hole as the Solyndra and First Solar handouts?

Even in super-green Germany, whose zeal for environmental purity was such that it shut down its nuclear power industry (but reopened coal plants), half of EV owners regret their purchase or lease, many citing “rising electricity prices.” That same sentiment is growing in America and around the developed world despite the machinations of the globalist power elites.

The day of reckoning for the Biden (and other nations’) EV mandates may come soon, especially as defiant automakers have moved forward with hydrogen-fueled vehicles, cleaner internal combustion engines, and other alternatives to the electricity-sucking, highway-crushing (yes, the heavier EVs add wear and tear to public roadways) marvels, many of which rely on diesel generators or coal-fired power plants to operate.

But mostly, people just want to be free to make their own economic and transportation choices and not have some unelected bureaucrat making those decisions for them.

https://realclearwire.com/articles/2024/07/08/ev_boosters_cannot_do_math_1043078.html

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.

jeebling
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1445

Interesting article

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1446

But…….uh……….electric cars use less gas..
and……they don’t pollute the planet and stuff…..
and…..they are quiet, and real fast, and I can drive right by gas stations…….. because I don’t need gas.

You old farts better learn to toe the line, the electric car tsunami is coming, and your polluting, environmentally damaging and noisy gas and diesel vehicles will be outlawed!!!

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1447

I like investing in oil and gas pipeline companies. The demand for EV fuel is strong!

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1448

Interesting article

jeebling wrote:

What is truly interesting is that with every major government world wide and every automotive manufacturer moving to EVs there is still plenty of money to market the idea that they are "bad, impractical, and politically motivated for profit."

As always the article cherry picks facts and makes false assumptions - like that the electrical grids and transformers would need upgrading for EVs. These cars charge at home OFF HOURS. Mine from midnight to 6AM. And they don't charge every day just like you don't go to the gas station every day. No upgrades needed - not even if I bought three.

And, I save a shit ton of money over may last gas car - that is my real world experience over the last two years. Yet the article contends that this "costs money that most Americans do not have". Bullshit in motion. Courtesy of DMV.

Speaking of which, I predict that Dunning-Kruger effect is about to make a showing.
Just squat and watch.

Edited by user a year ago | Reason: Not specified

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1449

Speaking of which, I predict that Dunning-Kruger effect is about to make a showing.
Just squat and watch.

Brewha wrote:

Is that the sound your fartcar makes when the power goes out???[whip]

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1450

Used car prices plunging: EVs hit the hardest

Used vehicle prices are plummeting. That's good news if you're in the market for a new ride, bad news if you're counting on a trade-in to do it.

Why it matters: Used car prices were a major driver of post-pandemic inflation.

The big picture: Average wholesale prices declined to $17,934 in June, down 8.9% versus a year earlier, according to Cox Automotive's Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index.

That's the 22nd straight month of year-over-year drops.
Wholesale price trends typically translate into similar retail price movement.

The price declines are hitting EVs the hardest as choices proliferate and some consumers balk at the chance to go electric.

Used EV prices are down 16.6% over the last year.
The average price of a 2023 Tesla Model 3 with two-wheel drive has plunged 40% in a year, according to Manheim.

Between the lines: Vehicle inventories have recovered after the pandemic temporarily ravaged supply chains, which limited automotive production capacity and caused prices to spike.

Now, after years of enjoying massive price increases, dealers are ramping up incentives on new vehicles — which has a "waterfall" effect causing used vehicle values to recede, Cox Automotive chief economist Jonathan Smoke said on a conference call.

Overall, sedan prices are down 11% over the last year, while SUV prices are down 9.3% and pickup prices are down 8.3%.

Reality check: None of this is a welcome development for people looking to trade in a vehicle they're still paying off.

Upside-down loans — where the vehicle is worth less than the person owes — hit an all-time high of $6,255 in the second quarter, which is up 39% from two years ago, according to data released Wednesday by car research site Edmunds.

What we're watching: June's Consumer Price Index comes on Thursday, giving us more insight into how used car prices are factoring into inflation.

Go deeper: Tesla's declining vehicle deliveries signal it's losing EV dominance

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/10/used-car-prices-drop-evs-pickups-suvs

Brought to you by Axios.com.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axios_ (website) not exactly a conservative outlet. Oh my!

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1451

Brewha wrote:

I disagree.

Although it only costs about 1/3 as much to fuel an EV it is not a money saving alternative to an ICE powered vehicle. Any savings you realize from recharging the batteries is more than offset by having to pay a 20-30% premium for a new EV verses a similar equipped ICE powered automobile.

Total cost of ownership for a EV is pushed even higher when one considers the eventual end of useful life for the original owner as the resale value percentage of a used EV is much less than that of a competing ICE powered vehicle.

I get you love you car. If it works for you then so be it. But, it’s certainly not cheaper to own and drive than a similar equipped ICE powered vehicle though you’ve repeated that false claim many times.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1452

Abrignac wrote:

I said that I saved - over a car that burned premium and got about 27 mpg.

You can get a ICE car cheaper than an electric. EVs don't yet play in the entry level space - but they will.
So, yes - a Nissan Versa is cheaper than any new EV by a bunch.

But, let's just have a comparison. I drive a Model 3 Long Range All Wheel drive. By the web site today it costs $47,490 (no options) and would get a $7,500 tax credit.
What would you say is comparable?
Remember, heated and cooled seats, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, power everything.

I compared it to a BMW 3 and a much cheaper Infiniti Q50 AWD - the Q50 starts at $45,050.

But for 25% of the model 3 new (no tax break) - $35,618 - what can be had that is comparable?

Edited by user a year ago | Reason: Not specified

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1453

I said that I saved - over a car that burned premium and got about 27 mpg.

You can get a ICE car cheaper than an electric. EVs don't yet play in the entry level space - but they will.
So, yes - a Nissan Versa is cheaper than any new EV by a bunch.

But, let's just have a comparison. I drive a Model 3 Long Range All Wheel drive. By the web site today it costs $47,490 (no options) and would get a $7,500 tax credit.
What would you say is comparable?
Remember, heated and cooled seats, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, power everything.

I compared it to a BMW 3 and a much cheaper Infiniti Q50 AWD - the Q50 starts at $45,050.
$
But for 25% of the model 3 new ($27no tax break) - $35,618 - what can be had that is comparable?

Brewha wrote:

A Honda Accord @ $27,895 with no dealer discount

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1454

Brewha wrote:

BTW that $7,500 credit requires the at be sold to a business not an individual. And don’t forget that you have also add in the destination fee which isn’t included in the price you quoted. That’s another $1400+.

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1455

Abrignac wrote:

No idea why you think the tax credit is business only. Have a look at “EV individual tax credit”.

BuckyB93
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

a year ago

#1456

This month my EV vehicle charge on my electric bill was only $0.04.

I don't own an electric vehicle (unless you count the electric bike but it doesn't make fart sounds) but why should I pay one red cent on my electric bill for an EV charge? Subsidies and my tax money going to things that I don't own or use? If I had an EV car, truck or whatever then have no problem, I'll pay the price for the electricity to charge it. But to tap on an additional charge folks that have one is complete BS.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1457

No idea why you think the tax credit is business only. Have a look at “EV individual tax credit”.

Brewha wrote:

I saw something on Tesla’s that said had to be a business. However, I did a little more digging and it seems that was not correct.

The numbers:

Tesla Model 3
Base Price $42,490
Universal Wall Connector $580
Destination Fee $1,390
Order Fee $250
Total $44,710

Tax. Credit <$7,500>
Grand Total $37,260

Cost of electricity for 60,000 at $0.1688 per kW $2,573

Total sales price and fuel charge for 60,000 miles $39,833

Honda Accord
Base Price $27,895
Destination Charge $1095
Total $28,990
Estimated Fuel Cost 60,000 miles $6,900
Estimated Oil Change Cost $84 per using Genuine Honda Filter and Oil
4.8 non-covered oil changes $403
Total sales, fuel & oil change cost for 60,000 miles
Grand Total $36,293

A Tesla 3 costs $967 more to purchase and operate for 60,000 miles than a Honda Accord on top of the $7,500 tax-payer funded subsidy that gets kicked in.

But wait there’s more. Tesla’s resale value is much worse than a Honda. So that also drives up TCO

One can routinely negotiate a $1000 dollar discount on a Honda. Unsure if Tesla sells for less than MSRP.

Tesla COO is calculated to use at home charging. If one needs to charge away from home they can expect to pay about 4 times as much.

If it’s cold apparently an EV won’t hold its charge as well so range is limited.

To put it into perspective a Tesla is more expensive to operate than an ICE powered vehicle.

Edited by user a year ago | Reason: Not specified

Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

a year ago

#1458

Abrignac wrote:

So if you are comparing base model to base model the base Model 3 is $38,990 Not $42,490.

Moreover these two cars are not in the same class. You could get close by going with the Accord Touring Hybrid starting at $38,990 - But it's still not a RWD car of a comparable class.

In fairness, you may look at the accord and see it as directly comparable. Good for you.

But the Accord is a 200 hp FWD car that is kind of a dog off the line. 7.3 second 0-60?? 6.5 for the "hot version"??? My 3 is 4.2 second 0-60 - the "Hot version" 3.1 seconds. Hell it will even drive itself....

Look - you can own and operate an ICE cheaper than an EV - today.
But not in all classes of play.