hey Indiana WTF is wrong with you??

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ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

15 years ago

[ram27bat]

http://m.nwitimes.com/mobile/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html

Seriously??

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FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

Yay fascism!

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

15 years ago

No doubt.

Now we are agreeing ......

This is TOTAL bs!

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

No doubt.

Now we are agreeing ......

This is TOTAL bs!

ZRX1200 wrote:

Yes. You shocked? I have always said I'm a small 'l' libertarian.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

15 years ago

No I'm not shocked actually.

Just pointing out the agreement as we didn't see totally eye to eye on single payer.

dpnewell
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

Fuzz and I actually agreeing on something? Dang, I think I'm going to be sick. This is total bull chit. What’s next, yearly unannounced police inspections of all homes and businesses? I mean, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear, right?

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

leonardo
Aficionado

15 years ago

That's not Indiana, that's 3 Indiana state supreme court justices.

So, you think if an on-duty police officer enters your home without knocking or a warrant, you have the right to beat the hell out of him/her? How far should you be allowed to take this resistance? Just curious.

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

Not so sure about this one. Will need to think about it: Officer safety v. exigent circumstances created by potential domestic violence. Problem here is there needs to be clear-cut rules that both citizens and law enforcement are fully aware of to minimize this. A lawsuit for damages after the fact doesn't resolve the potential violation of the 4th Amendment...

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

leonardo wrote:

Seriously: How far should law enforcement be allowed to stretch the 4th Amendment?

leonardo
Aficionado

15 years ago

#10

Seriously: How far should law enforcement be allowed to stretch the 4th Amendment?

rfenst wrote:

So, if an on-duty police officer violates your 4th amendment rights, do you have the right to beat the hell out of him/her?

dpnewell
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#11

^Who the heck here is talking about beating up LEOs? This is about the right to be secure in your own home. No one here is advocating violence against law enforcement.

jackconrad
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#12

Indiana wants me, Lord I can't go back there
Indiana wants me, Lord I can't go back there
I wish I had you, to talk to

Indiana wants me, Lord I can't go back there
("This is the police, you are surrounded, give yourself up")
Indiana wants me, Lord I can't go back there
("This is the police, give yourself up, you are surrounded")

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#13

What’s next, yearly unannounced police inspections of all homes and businesses? I mean, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear, right?

dpnewell wrote:

So glad you wrote this. I find myself saying this to people several times a year. Those willing to sacrifice rights for what they perceive as security end up with less of both...yeah yeah I know I am paraphrasing a dead wise guy.

On the left, the Soviet Union offered this type of "peace of mind" for decades as have many far right totalitarian regimes. We are supposed to be enlightened but we continue to creep toward eroding our foundation. Short of a total government/military state there is no way to "prevent" crime, and good police work solves it. Violence is different, however, but still needs standards that protect citizens from overly aggressive tactics.

I would hate to be an officer in this situation, but there could be circumstances that would eventually clear his/her actions on case by case basis rather than routinely permitting such broad seemingly unAmerican activity.

Careful about cracking open that door...

leonardo
Aficionado

15 years ago

#14

^Who the heck here is talking about beating up LEOs? This is about the right to be secure in your own home. No one here is advocating violence against law enforcement.

dpnewell wrote:

The article you linked states the husband pushed the LEO up against the wall when he followed the husband and wife into their apartment. That's what prompted the case and the supreme court decision, unless I misunderstood the article. Isn't that the whole point of the decision? The decision was about the citizen's "right to resist" unlawful entry of their home by police. It doesn't give police the right to violate the 4th amendment, it says that if the police do violate a homeowner's 4th amendment rights by unlawfully entering their home, that homeowner does not have the right the resist. They can file a lawsuit, but they're not allowed to physically resist the police entry.

Isn't that what the article says? rfenst?

Edited by user 15 years ago | Reason: Not specified

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#15

Careful about cracking open that door...

frankj1 wrote:

That door has been cracked open years and years ago with our War on some drugs.

FuzzNJ
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#16

leonardo wrote:

That's the case that lead to the decision, but the decision ended up allowing law enforcement even more leeway to enter a person's house.

leonardo
Aficionado

15 years ago

#17

That's the case that lead to the decision, but the decision ended up allowing law enforcement even more leeway to enter a person's house.

FuzzNJ wrote:

I think you're wrong, doesn't give the police any more rights at all. Just states the homeowner cannot physically resist police entry into their home. What additional rights do the police now have?

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

15 years ago

#18

How about illegally entering a home?!

And pushing a trespasser against the wall isn't beating him up freaking get real. How bout citizen rights? PRIVATE PROPERTY......right and left can't seem to get this one right.

And this is Indiana. Unless people NOT elected by their citizens nominated and confirmed them.

leonardo
Aficionado

15 years ago

#19

ZRX1200 wrote:

Again, how far can this "resistance to unlawful entry" go? 3 members of the state supreme court said residents don't have the right to resist, their stated reasoning being that resistance would likely escalate the violence. The supreme court did not say that police have the right to unlawfully enter a home. Didn't give the police any more rights at all, i.e. they still do not have the right to enter a home without permission, warrant, etc. I guess it may have taken away the right of a homeowner to physically resist unlawful entry of their home by the police.

Maybe I'm missing some legal thing here but seems pretty simple, and really not that outrageous.

And, where I grew up, if you laid hands on a police officer, you were getting a beat down. I never tested that.

dpnewell
Herf-A-Holic

15 years ago

#20

That door has been cracked open years and years ago with our War on some drugs.

FuzzNJ wrote:

You better stop this crap, Fuzz. Now we agree on two points in a single thread. Think I need a drink, and a strong smoke.

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