Good.
I don't want any Muslim Extremists coaching my kids soccer team anyhow...

Tailgater,
"when checking a 30 year old male Arabic Muslim..."
Just what does a 30 year old arabic muslim male look like, and what is his physical difference from a 30 year old arabic christian male?
Are you suggesting that we treat all 30 year old male muslims the same? If so, that would be racist. Or are you suggsting that we ask them? Because I think that a terrorist would NEVER lie about his religion just for the purpose of avoiding suspicion.
Que

What's so bad about taking off your shoes at an airport (ref: making Granny take off her shoes). I spend 9 months out of the year in airports, and I take my shoes off in just about every one of them except the ones in the USA. In all honesty....and don't read too deeply into this and bash me as an American hater as a few most likely will.....the United States has the worst security of all the airports I've been in. And trust me, as I said above I'm in them at least twice a week for international travel.

All the airports in the rest of the world have little trays of slippers piled up....you take off your shoes (smart people wear the kind with no laces while travelling) put on the slippers and place your shoes in the tray where the slippers were. Then you slide your shoes through the x-ray machine and on the other side you do the exact same process except in reverse.

So, why do we Americans have the worst security? I'll give you a hint.......because we hate to have our precious time, dignity, and pride tampered with. We want safety, but only if it means messing with the Arabs and not with us. We don't like to be slowed down....after all "WE'RE AMERICAN DAMMIT!"

Here's my 2 cents......F*ck Granny and her shoes, and F*ck anyone who holds me up in line because they decided to travel that day wearing a suit of armor and various other bits and pieces of metal in their clothing. Get a clue folks, wear clothes with no buckles and shoes with no laces, and be prepared to be searched....it's that simple.

"All the airports in the rest of the world have little trays of slippers piled up....you take off your shoes (smart people wear the kind with no laces while travelling) put on the slippers and place your shoes in the tray where the slippers were."

Does this account for all the cases of trench foot and toe fungus overseas?
It only took one guy having sex with a monkey overseas to start the aids epidemic

EI......congradulations!

You just won the "stupidest comment ever posted on cbid contest."

I've read, and even said some really crazy stuff on this board, but this one takes the cake. Tell me (no, tell everyone else also) that you were joking.....please say that.

Next year for vacation......try leaving your hometown. Maybe even your home state. Better yet, travel to a foreign land. You might just be surprised at how big and wonderous the world really is my friend.

Man.....that was one STUPID thing to say!

Adroomi, hope you're stocked up on nerve medication...
Oc:

I think everyone but you knew I was joking


Geshhhheeeeeeeeeee blood is right you do need some meds

and as for foreign travel my friend , you may be surprised.

try looking over your shoulder when your with your asian school girls in those bars. never know who you may see

But I thought Adroomi was the only one who traveled.
The only one with any worldly knowledge.
???
I know this to be true, because he has implied so on nearly every post...

I hope that when I used to travel around the country and Internationally for work that I didn't sound as arrogant as Adroomi does.
Dude, every freakin post reeks of self importance based solely on your current travels. Tone it down a bit so we can read your posts with unbiased mindsets. I know you're trying to make a point, To Tell us that you speak from experience. But man does it come off as holier than thou.
I like your posts. They're usually thought provoking if nothing else.



In the meantime, QUE, please go back and do your own research on known and suspected terrorists. Include the ones from the 9/11 flights. And the ones who bombed the Towers in '93. And the ones who bombed the many embasy's and the USS Cole.

Look at their photo's and try to convince me that it would be difficult to determine their threat level vs an 80 year old American grandmother.

Now, take it one step further. Pretend you're working at the Airport.
The first group you check in is a family of 5. A husband, wife and three kids aged 4 to 10. They've got round trip tickets to Orlando Florida.
The second group you check in is two Arabic males aged 35. They're not American Citizens. They have one way tickets from Boston to LA. They just arrived into America via Canada.
Despite a one way ticket, they are not checking any bags. They've got one carry on.

Do you inspect both sets of travelers equally? Do they both pose the same potential threat?

THAT is profiling. And it's not racist to assume that group B is a higher threat potential than group A. It's common sense based on history.

EI...If you were joking, then my mistake....I doubt you were though. I'll give the benefit of the doubt though.

Tailgater...point taken. Sometimes I need a reality check. Thanks.

As for the family travelling and the Arabs though.......assuming we are still talking about the security folks and taking off your shoes and all that.....

1. How do the security folks know the family has roundtrip tickets to Orlando?

2. How does security know that the two men aren't US citizens?

3. How does security know that they only have a one-way ticket?

4. How does security know that they just arrived from Canada?

5. How does security know anything unless they put the same set of rules and suspicion in place for any and all passengers?

All good questions, how do we know!>????

C

adoomi,
Thank you for asking all the questions that I was going to ask. Also, tailgater, if I was in that situation, I would do my job as per my post orders and instructions. You are right that the family of five may not be terrorists, but what about the possibility of the family being drug smugglers? There are more concers at airports than just terrorists. You have to treat everyone the same regardless of what age, color religion or any other variable. There is too much to watch for to just say that you are going to watch for one type of person.
And another thing I agree with adroomi about is that the US airports are very lax in their security measures. I have also traveled and seen what other countries are like. They ahve the right idea, they check EVERYBODY, not just 30 year old Arabic males just in from Canada with a one way ticket blah, blah, blah.
Que

Checking everybody does not mean taking the same precautions with each.
Do you honestly think that a vacationing family would or should get the same scrutiny as a shifty looking lowlife?

Do the Presidents secret service agents treat a clean cut man in a suit the same way they would treat a scraggly dude in a full length trench coat?

What about your kids first day of school? You'd expect the bus driver to be clean cut, friendly person. What if that same scraggly looking dude in a trench coat was behind the wheel? Would you put your 7 year old daughter on the bus?

Security should suspect EVERYBODY. That's their job. But some deserve more attention than others. Otherwise it's a waste of time, energy, efforts and money to achieve the same objective.
And until the terrorists start using families of 5 and grandmothers as perpetrators of their heinous crimes, those groups should only be subjected to the standard inspection.

I am a biker that has never been in trouble with the law and I am also a very honest person. I served four years honorably in the military, yet because I wear leather and have a patch on my back I am sometimes treated with suspicion. I have also been looked at with suspicion and even questioned by people with a different skin color than mine simply because I shave my head. Is this wrong? Not only yes, but HELL YES!!! People prejudge me and they are wrong. Most of the time I just let it roll off my back, but sometimes it does bother me. I could change my appearance, but I will not change just so shallow, prejudice people will stop judging me. Maybe this explains a little about why I think that you should not go by a person's appearance. I get treated differently because of the way I look and it is total BULLS*@T! You cannot judge someone by their appearance!
I am done ranting. I am also pretty much done with this thread.
Que

One way they know is from the airlines. They put certain codes and flags on tickets and boarding passes to alert security.
I too spend a lot of time in airports for my job. A couple times when I bought tickets on short notice or maybe a one way ticket for various reasons I was selected for the extra, super, secret, intense screening. I asked,"Why me?", and was told about a flag on my boarding pass, which to me looked like every other boarding pass.
But, guess what? I got through the checkpoint in a fraction of the normal time because I was pulled out of the regular line and sent to a "Special" lane. They didn't even charge me for the massage!

Que,
Nobody is asking you to change. Your appearance, or your beliefs. You claim that it doesn't bother you when people "prejudge" you, but then claim it's bull.
???

We prejudge people and situation everyday. Is that prejudice?
Walk down the street and pass by 4 nuns. You'll feel safe.
Walk down the same street and pass 4 guys with leather jackets, chains, and tatoos. You may keep one eye on them as you pass.

Yet, truth be told, it would be easier for the nuns to pack a weapon under their frock.

Point? That you do know the difference between caution and racial profiling.

Thanks for the spirited debate. It's always appreciated.

Well....at least this little debate has not resorted to any name calling yet. This is genuine debate and well worth the read. This is how we all learn and either accept or reject new ideas. Beats the heck out of some of the other slander I see folks (and I'm guilty too) doing on other threads.

"Do the Presidents secret service agents treat a clean cut man in a suit the same way they would treat a scraggly dude in a full length trench coat?" I would have to say definately a big fat YES. A good pard of mine is in that business (yes, for Georgie) and EVERYONE is a suspect. He even told me that he would take ME down (a good friend) if I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

To answer my questions above, the only way to be safe and not p*ss anyone off is to make people present passports upon check in at the terminal, and YES, to flag boarding passes. The question is.....would most Americans "gladly" bring their passport (or some other form of ID) to the airport for a flight? In the other countries I speak of, everyone is considered a suspect. Everyone gets checked very closely, and everyone plays by the rules.

The terrorists are smart. They won't board another plane four strong again. They'll cut some minimum wage fuel truck drivers throat one morning (probably a Mexican, or some race that is a little darker skinned and looks somewhat Arabic) and then walk out onto the flightline with their lunchbox and put the bomb in the wheel-well of a B747-400 full of 400 passengers. It's that simple. The days of hijackings are over. Now we move on to bombs and stuff like that.

Regardless, the US has some exceptionally lax security. We still haven't learned. Will we ever? Not as long as we only suspect people who look sneaky.

I've travelled in $8000 Versace suits and I've travelled in cutoffs, a Ted Nugent T-shirt and black and white checkerboard vans. Either way the shoes came off and the frisking commenced......of course that was here in Singapore. Last month in Denver I went through security with a hash pipe in my front pocket (it was new, a gift), and 4 days of stubble. I didn't even get a second glance......and trust me, I look pretty suspicious when I'm travelling....something about my eyes I'm told.

We didn't worry about boxcutters and flimsy flight deck doors until Sep 2001.

We didn't worry about shoe bombs until Richard "stupid-even-for-a-terrorist" Reid carried on matches instead of a Bic. If he'd had a Bic, that airplane would've simply disappeared over the ocean and we'd have no idea why. Several more would surely have followed.

We didn't worry so much about females until women started joining in the fun (two Russian airliners down; women suicide bombers in Iraq).

If we don't search grandmas in wheelchairs, then that will be how the next bomb gets on an airplane. After a few lost airliners, we'll eventually start searching grandmas. Why wait until a few hundred more people are dead?

Profiling has its place in an intelligent evaluation of the situation, and it's natural instinct to consider it -- but airport security picking on everyone, and even changing routines so that (to us) it looks like they're making it up as they go, makes me feel better about getting on an airplane. Routine can be (and has been) observed and exploited.

I would NOT want to be deciding airport security issues. It's obviously a thankless job regardless of the results.

-------------- Anectode Follows--------------------

Shortly after 9/11, a coworker of mine was travelling on DOD business with an associate by the name of Dr. Said.

Airport security said something like "Thank you, Dr. 'Sed'."

He answered back, "It's pronounced 'Sigh-eed""

My friend says he groaned audibly.

After about hour, they barely made their flight.

Tailgater,
as per your comments about the way I would react to the nuns vs. the guys in leather with tattoes, I would say hi to the nuns and probably strike up a conversation with the guy in leather and tattooes. Did you miss the part earlier where I pretty much described myself as dressing in leather and tattooes, or did I misunderstand your post? I make it a point to not prejudge anybody. I know that it does happen, and I believe it is wrong. People prejudge me and they are wrong. Thant's on them, not me. I would also like to re-ask a question from earlier in this thread. What are the physical differences between a 30 year old arabic male muslim and a 30 year old arabic male christian? Can you tell the difference, or do you treat all arabics as muslim?
Que