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danmdevries
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#21

I like how Noobs avoid threads like this like the plague...lol.

JadeRose wrote:

Got nothin to add to the discussion.

Haven't tried, or seen the brands discussed.

Haven't tried/loved/retried/hated any sticks yet. (other than tastes changing)

But now I've posted in the thread 🍺

Edited by user 12 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Plowboy221
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#22

why would you call bs when you don't know what you're talking about? Go find one at a b&m and look at it - just look... then come call bs...

I don't have a pic of the beauties side by side but here are the titan's... it's a similar aesthetic difference between the 2 available beauties...

https://www.cigarbid.com/Forum/c/posts/630727/Gurkha-Titan-New-and-Old

opelmanta1900 wrote:

:-k they both still look like turds to me… 😂

How do you know, maybe the b&m is rebanding them. Cigar conspiracy outrage [ram27bat]

crgcpro
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#23

I just have to call bs on this.
Why would the manufacturer create two completely different cigars with the same name? I can understand if you're buying 3year old product from a B&M while from CI you're getting recently rolled (since they have higher turnover), but it makes no financial sense for there to be two separate products put out the same year, with the same name.

victor809 wrote:

Victor: He's right on this. There were only 50k Gurkha Beauties ever made and they sold out many years ago. CI/CBID owns the label and puts it on something but it isn't the Gurkha Beauty. I still see a few of the "real" Beauties in the glass tubes in some B&M's going for around $30/each. The ones sold here are at best a Victor Sinclair 2nd and that's being generous!

illinichaser
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#24

crgcpro wrote:

You're actually supporting Victor here, and I think Victor is right. You may be able to buy old inventory of the Gurkha, or la perla, while there is a very different cigar being sold now ( new inventory) that CI/CBID hold the rights on and hold the rights on the label.

But no way are cigar manufactures maintaining 2 separate supply chains with 2 different cigars under the same label. That would be impossible to manage.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#25

Bart... That's interesting, I definitely haven't run across those. But what you're describing is essentially continuing the label. There aren't two separate production runs from the same company, what I understand you're saying is that Gurkha made a cigar for a year, sold the label (presumably to svedish match) and it is continuing to be produced at a lower quality than before.

What it sounds like opel was describing (if I understood correctly) was the line being produced simultaneously... I don't believe anyone would bother with that.

Plowboy221
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#26

How does Gurkha manage the five million different cigars they have anyway?

crgcpro
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#27

Yes the original run is gone. Big internet company buys "the label rights" and bands anything they want with it. All of the big companies do this. I could list many from here and many from each of their big competitors but I won't.

The worst part is when they post the high rating that "the original" received. Some would call this good marketing. I call it fleecing the sheep. Glad I'm no longer a sheep LOL.

danmdevries
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#28

crgcpro wrote:

As a noob, this "got" me several times.

Actually it's what led to me getting on the internet cigar forums.

Then the other forum I'm a participating member of, introduced me to cigarbid.

Then I spent hundreds of dollars on good cigars and found the forum here.

Now I'm here. Because cheapo cigars were being banded and advertised with the 93 rating of their originals.

See, a nood can contribute to this thread afterall.

JadeRose
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#29

crgcpro wrote:

You said (way better obviously) what I was trying to. I don't think there are 2 different LaPerla Lines. I think there used to be a good one. Now there is a bad one trying to pass itself as the good one. I think it's happening to Camacho, too. Those yellow label Camacho Havanna's used to be a terrific smoke. From what I've been told by some who used to love them, the ones they got on here are not the same as they used to be. In all fairness, I haven't bought any from here so I don't know. I DO trust those who told me that, though.

Edited by user 12 years ago | Reason: Not specified

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#30

OK, that I can believe.
This doesn't necessarily require a new manufacturer tho. The same company can lose their quality standards, etc etc... Hell, a new company can buy a label and improve the line...

I guess it's just something I'm uncomfortable making broad generalizations on...

opelmanta1900
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#31

All of you are right... but at the same time, wrong, because everything that's said here is wrong...

When I refer to b&m beauties, I'm not talking about the original run beauties...

bart, you're right about those, they ran out long ago but still pop up at b&m's here and there (apparently more there than here cuz I've only heard, never seen)... I've always wondered how they are/were...

And jeremy, you're right... bart's point does support victor's...

and victor, you play rugby...

What I was referring to are essentially the second run of the beauties... no glass tube, still have the cedar sleeve... still in production (or were until a year ago or so)... what cbid sells/was selling at least never had the cedar sleeve...

I'm ashamed - repeat, ashamed - that I know so much about gurkha... I really did support them heavily at one point... what a nood...

Edited by user 12 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Hillbillyjosh770
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#32

So there is no telling what I'm smoking when I buy a super premium off cbid is what y'all are saying?

opelmanta1900
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#33

cbid doesn't sell super premiums is what we all are saying...

cacman
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#34

cbid doesn't sell super premiums is what we all are saying...

opelmanta1900 wrote:

Now that's not true. I've read they will sell Opus X's at a loss just to keep up with demand.

DBIII
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#35

^^^banned!

cacman
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#36

No cigar manufacturer is going to make internet only lots, and B&M only lots... and the physical effort of re-labeling a cigar is ridiculous when you consider the scale these companies work at.

victor809 wrote:

Don't believe that's entirely true either. A number of manufacturers make cigars for B&M's only. Some are specially blended for the B&M and retain the original brand name and label ( ie Tatueje Cohetes, Illusione Rex, Ortega Oktoberfest, etc.). And others (like Brickhouse, Tatuaje, L'Atelier, and others) have offered B&M only cigars that are not available on the internet and are offered to promote B&M sales and small business. Not to mention that some B&M's arrange private labeling of their "house" cigars from the major manufacturers with little or no change to the blend, and could often be 2nds. The folks labeling the cigars are paid pennies compared to American workers and there's probably little cost in asking them to label the same cigar with a different band. IMHO it's the same scenario as when you buy the house brand from the grocery store. You know it's coming from somewhere else, and it's usually not the same quality as a major brand.

No personal experience with the La Perla, Ghost or Beauties, although I have heard the Camacho Triple Maduro is much different after the band change. But I would concur with the Padron statement by Victor (#22). Tobacco is an organic product and believe there will be differences due to environment, soil, weather and other conditions from year-to-year.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#37

So true about the environmental variations that would affect the tobacco leaves selected for a cigar/blend from year to year. It's amazing that some lines remain so consistent over the years.

I have personally experienced what opelmanta described: a cigar sold here that was different than it's counterpart sold at a B & M. I had a Graycliff Crystal (white label) that I bought here, and it was very good. I heard that internet Graycliffs are not the same, and may not even be rolled in the Bahamas, like the "factory/hotel" produced ones. The label did not have "Bahamas" on it, though some of the Graycliff Crystals and Double Espressos I got from here since do say "Bahamas" on the label.

I went to the local B and M and checked out the Graycliff Crystals there. The one that was closest in size also was different, it had a shaggy foot. The label said "Bahamas." I bought one, for about three times the price of the internet version. It tasted different, and to me the B & M cigar was better. But not three times the money better.

TrishS@CigarBid
Moderator

12 years ago

#38

illinichaser wrote:

With the relationship we have with Gurkha, why would we risk that by doing something they don't approve of? And how do you know the B&M Gurkha Beauty isn't OLD from the original release? Just like the La Perlas....

Sheesh....you guys need to come to CigarFest to see what kind of relationship we have with the manufacturers. They wouldn't bother with us if we diminished their brands/cigars.

Why do you think we removed some cigars from this site? Because the manufacturers asked for it! Demanded it with Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP) restrictions. If we were gonna tinkle on their twinkies, we wouldn't have bothered. But then, they would have stopped selling us product.

Do you really believe that any single Brick and Mortar store would sell more product than we would? I'll answer that...its no, they don't. So they could have, again, stockpiled cigars that they thought would be huge sellers and are now selling them, after that first (or second, or third) release is gone everywhere else.

Come on guys....think about it. What is to be gained by CI/CBid in doing something that isn't accepted/approved by the manufacturers?

Tiger - sorry.....I have no idea why I thought it was you. My only excuse is this damned time change messing with my internal clock. Sincere apologies.

Now Jade.... that's another story entirely! 🙂