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dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#21

To my original thought on this thread, Modern Atheism seems to be needlessly antagonistic towards those of faith. Why? If you are an atheist why do you have to "Practice" anything? How the hell do you practice NOT believing in something? I'm agnostic, bordering on atheist. Therefore I just leave all that stuff alone and let people of faith enjoy that faith with no input from me.

JadeRose wrote:

I'm mostly with you, but a little in the first part

I used to sort of feel like 'belief', and religion especially, was such an assault on reason and logic that I felt like some sort of modern day Galileo - "how can these people go through life denying that the world is round?" .... to me, its like people are trying to tell me things that I cannot comprehend ....nor comprehend that so many people believe them....as if maybe with just a few minutes I could get some rational thought to magically appear and give reality a chance...I don't want to save the world, but I like reason

And, I like to argue and hopefully challenge people to challenge their assumptions and consider rational thoughts that have been foreign to them...and I used to like to argue...now, I'm more of a 'whatever'....but it might be more that I've given up, than that I've gotten more accepting idk

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#22

I'm pretty sure God gave us puppy-dogs... 😟

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#23

and mosquitos?

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#24

For a response to #37 and #38... how the hell do you even PRACTICE atheism?

I have considered many ideas about how the universe works, even came up with some of my own and searched to see if others have considered the same... Incidentally, many scientists have had similar thoughts to my own and have put significantly more thought into it than myself.

edit: (meant to put this, but forgot)

With that said, I'm sure both myself and the scientists mentioned have an infinitesimally small probability of being correct... though I would estimate the odds to be slightly higher than dogma created thousands of years ago (even if the probability was higher by a factor of a million, I think the probability would still be extremely close to zero).

end edit:

I would hardly call choosing to not adhere to anyone else's dogma as truth a religion... that doesn't even make sense.

Sure, there may be militant atheists just as there's militants for any form of thought... with that logic, you could consider being gay a religion because there's militants protesting for gay rights... where the former is just as absurd as the latter.

I personally don't seek out other atheists in some twisted biological need to be a part of some fascist group think... I don't really gaf about what other people think about something that is seemingly impossible to know for sure...

But I'll certainly discuss and debate the topic with people interested in such discussions.

Truth be told, most of my conversations over the past few years with anyone about religion and atheism are here on these boards, I don't really put a lot of thought into my non-belief unless the topic comes up.

If atheism is a religion, then...

Not playing golf is a sport...

Not collecting baseball cards is a hobby...

Not playing slot machines is form of gambling...

See where I'm going with this?

I stand by my statement, atheism is not a religion.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

JadeRose
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#25

For a response to #37 and #38... how the hell do you even PRACTICE atheism?

I have considered many ideas about how the universe works, even came up with some of my own and searched to see if others have considered the same... Incidentally, many scientists have had similar thoughts to my own and have put significantly more thought into it than myself.

I would hardly call choosing to not adhere to anyone else's dogma as truth a religion... that doesn't even make sense.

Sure, there may be militant atheists just as there's militants for any form of thought... with that logic, you could consider being gay a religion because there's militants protesting for gay rights... where the former is just as absurd as the latter.

I personally don't seek out other atheists in some twisted biological need to be a part of some fascist group think... I don't really gaf about what other people think about something that is seemingly impossible to know for sure...

But I'll certainly discuss and debate the topic with people interested in such discussions.

Truth be told, most of my conversations over the past few years with anyone about religion and atheism are here on these boards, I don't really put a lot of thought into my non-belief unless the topic comes up.

If atheism is a religion, then...

Not playing golf is a sport...

Not collecting baseball cards is a hobby...

Not playing slot machines is form of gambling...

See where I'm going with this?

I stand by my statement, atheism is not a religion.

bgz wrote:

It shouldn't be but it is. A lot of Atheists wear their "non-beliefs" like a crown of thorns. They attack and mock those who have faith. They ACTIVELY deny the existence of God and make damn sure that they believe those of faith to be stupid. It is practiced as fervently as those guys who handle snakes and speak in tongues practice whatever the hell they are doing. It might not be a "religion", per se, but they sure do act like it is. I think religion sucks but as long as you leave me alone, I'll happily do the same for you.

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#26

Atheists organize against religious intolerance, the infiltration of religious dogma into schools and legislation, and the entanglement of church and state. They meet. A very cheerful group.
No robes, waffers or yarmulkes no 'Amens!'. They'd be invisible but for organized religion's outrage.
The IRS won’t be granting religious tax exemptions to atheist groups any time soon, so, not a religion.

And anyway, what difference does it make?

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#27

JadeRose wrote:

I religiously brush my teeth at least twice a day, and consider any adult who doesn't do it to be a dumb ass, so by your logic, that makes dentistry a religion.

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#28

Yeah.
And I'm a racist because I voted for Trump.

tailgater wrote:

It took great courage to admit that. Congrats.

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#29

To believe in God, or to not believe in god is a conscious decision. It really has nothing to do with a religion. To believe and follow a specific religion is also a conscious choice. Many of us grew up in a family that believed and followed a specific religion. Some of us decided that religion was not for us. Some of us decided religion was not for us. Some of us decided god does not exist. In our great country our brilliant forefathers left us a constitution that allowed for all of us to immune to repercussions due to our individual beliefs. For me, I believe in God, but my mind is to tiny to comprehend that God can't have many forms to various religions. So I choose not to follow a specific religion. I don't feel sorry for Atheists or the need to proselytize to them. I respect them for their conviction as I respect members of most religions for the conviction.

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#30

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#31

I know when some family members found out that I'm a non-believer, they flipped their lid. My grandmother took it especially rough as one of her best friends in this world was a priest (I don't think he took it so well either).

Anyway, once religious people find out what you are, they tend not to trust you or want to associate with you.

So I can see why militants have surfaced from non-believers. Atheists face more discrimination than any other "group" of people in the world.

One study showed that atheists didn't fare much better than rapists when polled about trustworthiness.

JadeRose
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#32

I religiously brush my teeth at least twice a day, and consider any adult who doesn't do it to be a dumb ass, so by your logic, that makes dentistry a religion.

bgz wrote:

Ok......I'm done. I believe Gene and I are both making the same point but you aren't seeing it.

JadeRose
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#33

Many empires have reshaped the world over the course of time... by no means was America the first, nor will it be the last...

Some day, jade and buckwheat and bgz may even see an empire reshape the world to be free of religion...

Of course that world will be a world largely free of homeless shelters, food kitchens, the red cross, the red crescent, the salvation army, goodwill stores, 12 step recovery programs, teen challenge drug recovery centers, Christmas, Easter, thanksgiving, the overwhelming majority of state constitutions, the first amendment, might as well abolish the US since to an extent it was settled for religious purposes... the list could go on but you all have Google... religion sure does suck... good thing we've got Hollywood...

opelmanta1900 wrote:

Why be a prick? I didn't say this nor is this something I even care about. I will say that the world is perfectly capable of being good to each other without religion. Not a single one of these requires religion unless you are talking about holidays and I GARONTEE that if Christmas disappeared tomorrow that Amazon and Walmart would come up with a suitable alternative.

and as far as the US.....it was established to be FREE of a state sponsored religion. Religion has no place in Government. NONE. I do NOT trust in God, nor does putting my hand on a bible, Koran, Torah, or anything else mean a single thing to me. The Bible, to me, is no different than a comic book of today. Superman and Jesus are virtually the same character. Don't agree with me? I give no shits....believe what you believe and I will do the same. I just won't try to get you to believe what I believe because I don't really care what you believe..unless you are f*cking with me about it. THAT'S freedom.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#34

Ok......I'm done. I believe Gene and I are both making the same point but you aren't seeing it.

JadeRose wrote:

I see your point just fine, you're saying because there exists a very small percentage of the overall population of atheists that you believe behave as anti-religious zealots implies that non-belief is a religion.

It's a logical fallacy, and I'm simply calling BS where I see it.

I don't know if you're familiar with P vs NP, but there are equivalent problems where if you can show that for one such problem that P = NP, then P = NP for all such problems. Similarly, however much more trivially, your proclamations are easily shown to be nonsensical with simple analogies.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#35

Religion is an invention of man. I'm not a big fan, but the more the merrier and the less likelihood of one religion getting in charge of the everything. I'd should also say that atheism, in this context, is another religion.

Gene363 wrote:

Just a matter of semantics I think. Atheism is a belief system. Believing God doesn't exist probably does not a religion make. Atheism is like any other belief system, communism, Gnosticism, dualism etc etc. Just because they attract adherents doesn't necessarily mean they're religions.

Religion according to the dictionary is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

God is dead. Nietzsche.

Nietzsche is dead. God.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#36

HuckFinn wrote:

Atheism is a belief system?

I look at it more like this...

-- Start belief system --

I believe anyone who claims to know what happens to you when you die or claims to understand what some superior being that created us wants is full of sh*t...

-- End of belief system --

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#37

bgz wrote:

Dude, you sound as convinced as the religious fanatics.

Wtf knows what the truth is.

I keep an open mind. Gets messy when I clean my ears.

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Gene363
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#38

HuckFinn wrote:

Imagine is one of my favorite tunes. It was a hymn in the supplemental hymnal at the San Juan Capistrano Presbyterian Church in San Juan Capistrano, CA. We sang it in church several times.

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HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#39

Imagine is one of my favorite tunes. It was a hymn in the supplemental hymnal at the San Juan Capistrano Presbyterian Church in San Juan Capistrano, CA. We sang it in church several times.

Gene363 wrote:

Hard to see how a church would be okay with that first verse.
Interesting..

Gene363
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#40

HuckFinn wrote:

You gotta read all the dictionary:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

Definition of religion

1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

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