frankj1
5 years ago

try "Too Big to Fail," Andrew R. Sorkin

he cites documents and quotes people actually involved...and yes, people working for free market capitalists on Wall Street found a way to create mortgage backed securities and convinced a bond rating company to give them A ratings to sell them on the open market, knowing they were gonna default at some point when the balloon payment came due...

banks took advantage of the housing market bubble, steering unqualified buyers into these subprime mortgages, instead of traditional interest based loans, because their banks knew they would unload them before they became due...signed up millions of home buyers to these no-interest loans, then turned around and dumped them...

this feeding frenzy accelerated, especially when Deutsche Bank bought a boatload ...Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns jumped all in and went bankrupt...

they begged Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan and CEO's of Citi, Chase, Bof A for help...but all refused to bail them out, letting the market crash... then he and other Wall Street bankers went to the Treasury Secretary Paulson, a Wall Street crony, at the WH and begged for a govt bail-out...so we proles eventually bailed the billionaires out


^very basic simple nutshell...lots more involved

delta1 wrote:


ray's gonna need a few minutes to read what others tell him to say

though on ray's behalf, Reagan initiated the freeing of banks to make risky loans without risk...we're still paying.
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delta1
5 years ago
shoulda been a cautionary tale 20 years later...institutional memories fail in the face of greed...

the shenanigans being pulled at high levels of Wells Fargo the past few years prove that free market capitalists need to be watched and regulated...
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frankj1
5 years ago
and that is sad.
We could have the truly free markets that ray dreams of, but he ignores the history of hideous atrocities (are there any other kind?) that forced the representatives of the citizenry to protect them.
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Smooth light
5 years ago
To big to fail+greed+bailouts. (Comes from f*ck'in if they can't take a joke) oh that deficit, can I have a hamburger 🍔 I'll pay you later.
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Speyside
5 years ago
On Tuesday?
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Smooth light
5 years ago
Is that someone grand kids name.
Figured you knew the Popeye the sailor/wimpy reference.
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RayR
5 years ago

try "Too Big to Fail," Andrew R. Sorkin

he cites documents and quotes people actually involved...and yes, people working for free market capitalists on Wall Street found a way to create mortgage backed securities and convinced a bond rating company to give them A ratings to sell them on the open market, knowing they were gonna default at some point when the balloon payment came due...

banks took advantage of the housing market bubble, steering unqualified buyers into these subprime mortgages, instead of traditional interest based loans, because their banks knew they would unload them before they became due...signed up millions of home buyers to these no-interest loans, then turned around and dumped them...

this feeding frenzy accelerated, especially when Deutsche Bank bought a boatload ...Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns jumped all in and went bankrupt...

they begged Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan and CEO's of Citi, Chase, Bof A for help...but all refused to bail them out, letting the market crash... then he and other Wall Street bankers went to the Treasury Secretary Paulson, a Wall Street crony, at the WH and begged for a govt bail-out...so we proles eventually bailed the billionaires out


^very basic simple nutshell...lots more involved

delta1 wrote:



I'm actually blindsided that anyone actually still believes there are "free market capitalists on Wall Street". Does that muffinhead Sorkin really think that is the case? Here Doug French shows no frigging way..,
https://fee.org/articles/is-wall-street-really-the-heart-of-capitalism/ 

So everything else you wrote supported by your boy Sorkin is codswallop because it has absolutely nothing to do with the free market, in fact totally the opposite. All those shenanigans originated from anti-free market cronyism brought on by the Federal Reserve and the gubment. Or didn't Sorkin cover that?

You might have understood what a free market is and isn't if you payed attention to anything Tom Woods said or wrote. Or didn't you bother, or was that way over your head?
Try putting down that book by New York Times lefty propagandist, and apologist for the political elites Andrew R. Sorkin. I haven't read the crap, but I hear it's a real bore fest, more about personalities than anything to do with economics and the mechanics behind the crash.
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RayR
5 years ago

and that is sad.
We could have the truly free markets that ray dreams of, but he ignores the history of hideous atrocities (are there any other kind?) that forced the representatives of the citizenry to protect them.

frankj1 wrote:



Frank, like the other malleable puppets here you are convinced that your selfless public servants are here to protect us from the anti-social behavior of the incorrigible predators of the private sector.
I'd like to hear about this "history of hideous atrocities", are we talking fact or fiction?
You guys are such romantics, innocents like children.
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frankj1
5 years ago
as long as you brought it up...check history of child labor first.
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ZRX1200
5 years ago
The blindness in this thread is sad.
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DrafterX
5 years ago
51..!! 🤣
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RayR
5 years ago

as long as you brought it up...check history of child labor first.

frankj1 wrote:



Frank, do you know why parents needed to have their children work?
Because they were poor and didn't want their families to starve to death!

Do you know what ends child labor?
The free market! Greater economic prosperity with its greater standard of living makes child labor unnecessary.

Sorry Frank, it wasn't the gubment through child labor laws that magically made child labor go away.
I admit as a child I flaunted your laws, I hustled, cutting grass and stuff. I didn't give a twit about your progressive paternalism. Yes Frank I was a criminal!

Gotta love those progressive minds who view everything in the past through the lens of presentism.
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delta1
5 years ago
Woods neglected to consider a tenet of conservatism when assigning blame for the Subprime Mortgage Collapse: individual responsibility...which includes avoiding behavior that would harm others...

you did not answer the question: who invented the security backed mortgage, the tool that caused the collapse?
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Smooth light
5 years ago
But mommy l want to go out and play and have a childhood. Get educated too!

Free semi-slavey, didn't have to pay for them, just get f*ck.
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RayR
5 years ago

Woods neglected to consider a tenet of conservatism when assigning blame for the Subprime Mortgage Collapse: individual responsibility...which includes avoiding behavior that would harm others...

you did not answer the question: who invented the security backed mortgage, the tool that caused the collapse?

delta1 wrote:



He showed how the system by its nature actually promoted and encouraged individual irresponsibility.
It's the nature of how every boom leads to a bust.

Salomon Brothers back in the 70's. It's not not mortgage backed securities themselves that are bad, they were suppose to be backed by good paper. Under the whole rotten politicized system of lower lending standards and artificially low interest rates that led up to the crash they became enormous bundles of bad loans and vastly overpriced real estate.





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ZRX1200
5 years ago
Wait who pushed them loans that the banks ended up taking advantage of?

It’s on the tip of my tongue......
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HockeyDad
5 years ago

Woods neglected to consider a tenet of conservatism when assigning blame for the Subprime Mortgage Collapse: individual responsibility...which includes avoiding behavior that would harm others...

you did not answer the question: who invented the security backed mortgage, the tool that caused the collapse?

delta1 wrote:



Obama invented that.
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delta1
5 years ago
banks only started pushing the sub-prime loans when they were able to co-opt Moodys to give them a AAA rating, enhancing the market for these timebombs to be sold...without the fraudulent AAA rating, they were worthless...and the banks recognized that...


so who invented the security backed mortgage for these sub-prime mortgages with a fraudulent AAA bond rating?

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delta1
5 years ago

Wait who pushed them loans that the banks ended up taking advantage of?

It’s on the tip of my tongue......

ZRX1200 wrote:




government encourages a lot of activity in the private sector through pronouncement and regulation... one example is the tax code that encourages donations to charitable organizations by offering tax credits for such donations...

a tax-payer who makes up a contribution out of thin air, like a sub-prime mortgage backed security, and fraudulently takes a credit can't blame the govt. if he is caught for his crime...neither can the banks in this case...

as a matter of fact, the major banks were fined Billions of dollars for their fraud that resulted in the market crash...smaller banks just went out of business...the American people were disappointed that many top level managers who were directly involved or had knowledge and approved, did not face criminal charges
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frankj1
5 years ago

Frank, do you know why parents needed to have their children work?
Because they were poor and didn't want their families to starve to death!

Do you know what ends child labor?
The free market! Greater economic prosperity with its greater standard of living makes child labor unnecessary.

Sorry Frank, it wasn't the gubment through child labor laws that magically made child labor go away.
I admit as a child I flaunted your laws, I hustled, cutting grass and stuff. I didn't give a twit about your progressive paternalism. Yes Frank I was a criminal!

Gotta love those progressive minds who view everything in the past through the lens of presentism.

RayR wrote:


we went off topic so I'll just say this...
parents needed them to work because the families were so poor and hungry and why is a whole 'nother subject, but employers would have never hired them if not for the fact(s) that they could fit more of them on the factory floor and pay them almost nothing...and a nearly endless job pooled to boot. Not sure if there was mandatory school during the industrial revolution. Might have cost less than slavery but didn't have to feed 'em.

they didn't pay them so little and work them near death because of good old healthy free market competition led to prosperity, nor did they feel remorse...hence child labor laws.

you're talking about legal age of employment. different topic.
Shoot, I'd put my work ethic and earnings up against anybody's as a kid from lawns, to snow shoveling to newspaper routes to Sunday mornings cleaning out under the glass cases and bringing party trays out to cars at a local deli. Then when (almost) old enough worked weekend afternoons and nights bussing tables and running the dish washer at another restaurant. I was almost 15 when I did that last job.

Not close to looooong hours in a factory which also kept an adult unemployed.
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