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DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#21

Ya... Biden sucks... 😟

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#22

.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf

rfenst wrote:

I’ve been giving this some thought. I can’t file it under the Truck Stop Toilet Stall Think Tank because I’m waiting to get my trailer unloaded instead of my colon.

But, is it possible that parts of the US Constitution could be un-Constitutional? Stand by because I think things could get complicated.

What happened on Jan has been described as an insurrection. Not here to debate the validity of such a claim because I suspect at least one case of those convicted of such as it relates to Jan 6 will make its way to the SCOTUS who will then have to define an insurrection in narrow enough terms such that it’s definition doesn’t infringe upon 1st Amendment freedoms so they can then form an opinion to be issued. I say this because as I understand it there is little if any case law regarding an insurrection.

Moving forward from that point the SCOTUS will remand the proceedings back to the lower courts to issue a ruling consistent with its findings to determine if those specific individuals were themselves peacefully protesting, doesn’t matter what others were doing only what those convicted were themselves were a party to, or if they were exercising their rights under the 1st Amendment. Should it be determined that they were peacefully protesting, again not what others were doing, then was that protected speech?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

1st Amendment to the Constitution wrote:

Getting back to the part about parts of the Constitution being un-constitutional.

Disqualification from Holding Office
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

14th Amendment to the Constitution wrote:

If you go back and look at Robert’s post he included a huge a bit of language regarding stages of an insurrection. But, it has to be conceived before it can be born. In this case, conception would come in the form of speech at a gathering of one or more people. So where does one draw the line demarking the perfectly legal freedom under the 1st Amendment to peaceful gather and plan how to seek redress of grievances and cross over into leading an insurrection which would theoretically preclude someone who has taken a specific oath from continuing or subsequently holding an elected office?

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#23

It’s just depends on how they’re registered and if they’re being steered by FBI plants.

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#24

So where does one draw the line demarking the perfectly legal freedom under the 1st Amendment to peaceful gather and plan how to seek redress of grievances and cross over into leading an insurrection which would theoretically preclude someone who has taken a specific oath from continuing or subsequently holding an elected office?

Abrignac wrote:

IMO, the "line is crossed" with illegal speech (incitement for example) and for anyone who knew they were crossing or usurping a police line- which invalidates the Freedom of Speech issue because it is a criminal act.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#25

And if that was entrapped?

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

8trackdisco
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#26

After some further contemplation I’ve decided the plants were probably the problem.

A handful of feds telling slack jawed, dimwitted, drooling mouth breathers to charge forward could easily happen.

Some people are just easily led and simple. They can’t be expected to think critically about their leader. They know they don’t really know what to do so they cling onto a strongman and go all the way down with him. Because without his strongman, he realizes he is now nothing.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#27

And if that was entrapped?

ZRX1200 wrote:

In the instant case, it's hard to claim entrapment when one is standing at a podium beating his gums.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#28

8 a guy who wasn’t there gets 20 years and the only guy on camera saying “Storm the Capital” gets nothing?

You really think this passes the smell test?

Abrignac the LARPer at the podium did less damage to this country than anyone who normally occupies that podium in the last 30 years.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#29

[gonzo]

ZRX1200 wrote:

Whether I agree or not is debatable. Either way, immunity is a different subject entirely.

However, his conduct without a doubt was absolutely below the dignity of what should be expected of someone who occupies that office. He squandered an opportunity to do truly positive things because he acted more like a petulant child and less like the President of the United States.

Edit: Don’t forget the fact that I’m far from a left wing zealot. I voted for that deek twice.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

8trackdisco
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#30

ZRX1200 wrote:

Z,
I hear what you are saying. I do. Coming from it from a Systems View, applying the Five Whys, which helps get to the source of the problem and not looking to judge one output against another. It helps gets the Feels out of the equation.

1- Why are these people being prosecuted?
Because of their unlawful actions inside and around the capitol.
Why?
2- Because they were all fired up feeling like 1770’s American Patriots.
Why?
3- Marching on the capitol in protest a contested election.
Why?
4- Because their leader told them to March on the capitol and he’d be there too.
Why?
5- Because he knew he could. Because some (not all) Trump supporters see him as their idol. He has wild eyed, easily influenced and led people looking at him as their idol.

Idolatry, worshiping golden calves has evolved in this century. Instead of God, the extremists, whether they pray to Division, Exclusion, and Inequity or to Trump as their savior are idol worshipers.

He’s got angry, poor, and people not on the better half of the education scale guys by the balls, while he can grab the ladies by the pus zzy.

You shall have no other gods before me. That is where my chips are.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#31

1.
That’s the approved narrative

2.
Speculation

3.
Ok

4.
Might wanna revisit the timeline….

5.
Don’t completely disagree, but the people who hate him are just as infatuated some willingly some conditioned. And that brings me to, there’s no difference between those three groups. Remove him from the equation, the things that have been done are far more treasonous than loud obnoxious visitors with a smattering of violent people.

And I’m not talking about one day I’m talking about starting from illegally surveilling a political opponent.

You care more about Cheeto than I do. (Not an attack on you btw).

His rise shouldn’t be a shock if you have a basic understanding of base human reactions. People hate the government. Their side is either good or less bad, and somehow….both sides are fed up with how they’re wronged. It’s almost like a perfect storm where people naturally opposed to a shifting change back to where we should be because they’re too afraid of the other guys.

So you get a candidate that’s smart enough and in touch enough to know how to not sound like he’s a schill for either team and yet continue the pep rally against one of the squads. Then the whole time in office the majority of his policies were Clinton/Bush/Obama esque.

This is really amazing stuff. And the manipulation of our population is still an afterthought.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#32

Here’s the thing. No one wants to compromise. Without both sides willing to give and take we will never get to sustainable spending. On one hand you have the no-way-come-hell-or-high-water-will-I insert any of a myriad of positions. If they aren’t willing to budge the other side isn’t going to give an inch. So here we are.

8trackdisco
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#33

You care more about Cheeto than I do. (Not an attack on you btw).
Not taking it personally. Nor should you either. Questioning thoughts and ideas we have.
Think where you are rightish about that line is I care more about him NOT being the Republican nominee, because there are likely more Never Trumpers than there are Always Trumpers.

As far as your support of Trump, do you want him to be the Republican nominee?
Are you an Always Trumper?

His rise shouldn’t be a shock if you have a basic understanding of base human reactions. People hate the government. Their side is either good or less bad, and somehow….both sides are fed up with how they’re wronged. It’s almost like a perfect storm where people naturally opposed to a shifting change back to where we should be because they’re too afraid of the other guys.

Not shocked at his rise. I’ve never voted for him (I’m a Never Trumper). Best thing about November 2016 was Hillary not becoming President. Wasn’t thrilled the president was Trump.
I feel your last line is dead on.

This is really amazing stuff. And the manipulation of our population is still an afterthought.

It is. The chilling poll I saw was 31% of Democrats and 29% of Republicans consider the other side Enemies of the State.
If the mindset is 31% are perceived Fascists and 29% are perceived as Socialists, that pressures the other 50% of the country to be the adults in the room.

It could get scarier yet.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#34

Yeah but of those two groups, nobody is claiming or running as a fascist where we do have non-apologetic socialists.

I never voted for Cheeto. He’s a better candidate than Haley. I’m not sold on Desantis having it nationally.

One final thing….again Cheeto’s policies. Something that’s either ignored completely or projected by people that have no clue and parrot their conformation bias info they’ve been fed.

What policies did you not like?

Maybe I don’t mind an azzwhole if he’s not a commie as much as the lefty bunch. The people that think of that position as an ideal bother me, it is supposed to be a leader. I’ve had a few good bosses and I had the best dad ever. One thing they had in common was occasional rubbing people the wrong way when achieving an outcome. I don’t like leaders that wait for the wind to blow to know where to stand and I don’t like empty vessels for dummies to pour their projections into.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#35

ZRX1200 wrote:

I think we both equally detest Trump. I didn’t vote for him because I liked him. When he ran in 2016 I felt his agenda was better for America than Clinton’s, Johnson’s and Stein’s. In 2000 I voted for him because I felt his policies were better for the United States than Biden’s, Jorgenson’s and Hawkins. As far as the other candidates in the two elections, I couldn’t tell you anything about them. They were so far down in the polls they had no chance of winning.

That said, I’m not a fan of name calling. IMHO, it makes an argument seem weak in the sense of “I don’t have anything factual, so I’ll make fun of someone” situation.

As far as character, I think it’s extremely important for a world leader to exercise a minimal level of diplomacy. One can be right about absolutely everything, but if the act like an azzhole no one wants to work with them so the are effectively inconsequential. Kinda like what happened between 2016 and 2000.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

8trackdisco
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#36

ZRX1200 wrote:

Policy wise, I liked a lot of it.
The Muslim Country Travel Ban seemed arbitrary.
Ran up the debt by 7 trillion. And everytime the governemnt shuts down, it adds to the deficit.
What, if anything came of his trade deal with China? It got inked, and the Chinese did not have their feet held to the fire.
Kim Jung Un "Rocket Man" kept and keeps updating his rocket capability. He didn't stop nor slow them.
He didn't toss The Dreamers. That would have been the most consequntial immigration reform possible. And a real deterrent.

The one that bugged me the most is the tax cuts. The rich get permanent cuts. Everyone else- temporary.

His devisiveness that he's created in the country has torn the fabric like nothing since Watergate. This united the Democrats and helped usher in the ridiculous, complete and wild swing to the far left. How many people have been been forced out or felt compelled to leave because they were White, Straight, Christian and Male? So devisive, a corpse beat him in an election.

His pushing his handpicked people (Masterson, Oz, Walker) cost the the Republicans the Senate. And now that the Gaetz Squad of 8 have their position, the only thing Republicans in the House can accomplish is to overthrow their speaker. But I have confidence they have enough disunity to accomplish that again.

For me it's not the color of the Cheetoh's skin, but the lack of content in his character.
A Grandiose Narcassist. Lacks impulse control. Surrounds himself with Yes-People instead of people who will challenge him.

GN's are endlessly insecure and have to always turn it up to eleven to reassure themselves. And at what price?

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#37

TRUMP 2024!!

America, fuck yeah!

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#38

8 were pretty close on this.

Big thing I'd disagree with is him dividing. Much of what (sometimes how) he said was a fool to the approved narrative. The press is a propaganda machine. He didn’t create division he gave light to disagreement with the platform of the podium. You don’t have to like what or how he said but this country needs to get away from half truths and qualified statements and name calling for the sake of isolation of opponents.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#39

ZRX1200 wrote:

So no more “Cheeto”? Asking for a friend.

Edited by user 2 years ago | Reason: Not specified

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

2 years ago

#40

Oh I’m gonna name call…..

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