People DO sometimes vote against party lines, Chris. Keep looking.

Chris I've looked at your link. It does show that JD would be correct. But it's not like its a landslide by any means.

I dont believe anyone can assume anything when its that close. also, I really dont know how accurate exit polls are, so I will assume they are legit. Unless I find otherwise.

Mag

Hell Sen. Robert Byrd the long time Dem from West Virginia was a "member" of the KKK. I have always wondered where the outrage is on this. I forgot, he is a Dem and he has delivered more "pork" than Jimmy Dean.

If he was a member of the GOP, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and the other "poverty pimps" would still be protesting on the Capital steps. The media would start any coverage of him by saying "Former clan memeber and current GOP Sen. Robert Byrd..."
GT

Yep, Robert Byrd should have been thrown out of the Senate. I'm with you on that one.

Problem is that he is the only one conservatives trot out on this issue. He's an old fart who spoke against integration on the Senate floor, condemned MLK, Jr. publicly...he and others (Helms and Thurmond chief among them) should have been tossed out. My opinion.

Mike, if you think the 'repudiation' of Duke was anything other than a wink-and-nod, then you don't understand conservative Southern politics. That's ok. Neither did I until I spent many years in the South. I was there when Duke ran. Very wink-and-nod.

Thank god he lost...but to a crook! Louisiana, a state I love for many reasons, is flat out crazy. Normal rules do not apply. When fishing, drinking, listening to live music...this is a good thing. When doing politics, well, sometimes it is better to just look the other way. LOL!

John

jdarbinski,

You make my point quite nicely. Byrd has a racist past and just didn't speak out on race issues, he was "Klan". Helms and Thurmond also have pasts that they should not be proud of. But look at how they are portrayed differently in the media and by opposing parties. Anytime Helms and Thurmond are mentioned in the news or by Democrats they bring up their past to frame them as evil and bad no matter what the issue is.

I don’t recall this being said in the GOP controlled Senate “The floor recognizes the ex-Klan racist from the great State of West Virginia Sen. Byrd. And I certainly don’t remember NBC, ABC,CBS,CNN,MSNBC or any other news org mentioning his past during his daily assaults against the Bush administration position on Iraq.
GT

I disagree. I hear all of the time about Byrd's past. It isn't some kind of secret, you know.

The fact remains, however, that Byrd is a lone example, whereas the Republican examples stretch VERY far indeed. Byrd seems an exception, but the Republican examples seem to point to a pattern.

John

we're straying from the issue.

How can you be against NAMBLA but support their right to advertise, teach, organize and exist.

This isn't some sciecne experiment dealing with theoreticals. "HOW" to build a bomb and actually building one are two distinct concepts.

But organizing a group of perverts and teaching them how to lure innocent kids into their grasp deserves NO respect nor representation.

I honestly don't see any grey area here. The ACLU has outlived it's usefulness. Period.

With that dangerous moron Ashcroft in power, we need the ACLU more than ever. The guy thinks it is immoral to dance! How did anyone ever take this guy seriously? I mean, hey, after Footloose, I thought we settled the idea that dancing is the tool of the devil.

But seriously, defenders of principles are NEVER not needed. If the principles matter, their defenders are needed. Maybe you don't value freedom of speech much?

I don't see the difference between the NAMBLA case and the bomb building instructions. Both promote destructive actions. But to put people in jail for what they say criminalizes speech...and that's a violation of the first amendment.

Sorry! It just is. No two ways about it.

John

"How can you be against NAMBLA but support their right to advertise, teach, organize and exist."

I am just as opposed to the Christian right-wing as I am to NAMBLA, but I don't want laws to prevent them from existing. Again, you cannot be prosecuted in this country for your ideas. Sorry, that's the price of freedom. Uncomfortable, but a pretty decent system.

John

John, I respectfully, but strongly disagree. To even put NAMBLA and Christians in the same catagory, whether Christian extremist or not, is wrong.

NAMBLA's policy is to encourage sex between adults and minors. And even give information on how to lure in children to take advantage of them.

There has definately been some Christian priests,(especially Catholic,which I am)that have taken advantage of children. That is terrible, but not the policy of the Church.

To say that they are equally looked upon, is unfair in my opinion.

Mag

"you cannot be prosecuted in this country for your ideas"
If your Ideas are into and Promoting Child Molestation and Practices such as... you better hope the Cops get ya before I do!!! Prosecuted wouldn't be the word used!!!

Hog

Hog
I think a rope & and a strong tree would work for me.

Mag

Nope.. Put their Head in the Shoot and grab the bull clamps... then swab their privates down with mothers milk and leave em tied to a tree for a weaning Calf to finish off!!!!

Hog

Ok...hehehehe!!!

Mag

John, I hope your comment was intended to create a fuss rather than to describe your position.
To compare religious fanatics from ANY religion to perverts who molest children is not misguided; it's idiotic.

If you were serious, I not only feel sorry for you, but also for your family and friends.
This is not a personal attack, but rather an observation made to a comment seemingly intended to instigate.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

He condemned America, so why wouldn’t you think he promotes child molesting too.

$hit hog, that's good! Remind me not to ever piss you off.

P.S. I knew you couldn't stay away long. Good to have you back.

NAMBLA –"No Animals May Be Left Alive." And they are animals. I would cut their throats like pigs after they begged me to kill them. And they would beg. Send them to me. No need to pay 45 thousand dollars a year per prisoner in taxpayers money to house them.

Tim

I think this is one of those squabbles that Steve has been talking about that have potential for trouble. But just want to say to keep it civil, it looks okay so far, but close to the edge though.

My two cents on the ACLU. I do not like the fact that they are supporting NAMBLA, I think its sick. But saying that the ACLU is unnecessary is ridiculous. No free speech trial had been won until the ACLU got involved. In 1944 the ACLU won the case in which it allowed blacks to vote in the primaries. It also helped allow teaching of evolution in classrooms. Jehovah’s Witness are allowed to print and distribute their pamphlets because the ACLU fought for their right to the press. The ACLU was involved in the case that ended segragation in schools. It was the ACLU who strongly opposed the Japanese concentration camps during World War II. The ACLU help lift the ban on James Joyce's mstgerpiece "Ulyssess". The Supreme Court held that a prosecutor could not use peremptory challenges to disqualify potential jurors based on their gender, with the help of the ACLU. In 1997 the "1996 Communications Act" banning “indecent” speech was found to violate First Amendment rights with the ACLU's help.

I don't support everything the ACLU does, but it is a very necessary organization, like the NRA which supports your rights to bear arms.

I'm sorry to write too much, and some are cut and paste, but I just needed to state that without the help of the ACLU, I might not be able to be on these boards with the rest of you, since I am a minority.

choner

Tailgater,

My point was unclear, I guess. I meant to say that, just because you fiercely object to an organization, that does not mean that you want them eliminated or their right to exist taken.

Right-wing Christians do a lot of terrible things, in my mind. Not NAMBLA, but also far from innocent. They want to impose their religion on my civic life, my child's schools, they shoot abortion doctors, and generally advocate positions that have led to my country becoming more and more backward. So I have deep, deep objections to their agenda. That does not, and will never, mean that I want their right to exist as an organization taken away. That was my point.

John