"Rick, if I punch you in the face because your Jewish, or I punch you in the face because you made a pass at my date, is your nose less broken?"

robby, i don't know you, and you don't know me. we differ a lot on our ideas about most maters.

we will probably never meet because we travel in different circles, and if when we get old, and are put away in a home, we probably would be locked in seperate rooms.

my question is why do you post such vicious posts to and about me.

Rick, this is not vicious. It's a simply statement of opinion regarding hate crimes and illustrating the stupidity of the laws in my opinion. What's important here is your nose, not why it's damaged. What's important is the damage. Not why is was done. I was by no means threatening your nose. Please re-read the post and accept my sincere and emphatic word that this is in know means intended to be either mean or nasty toward you personally. I don't expect you to be making any passes at my dates Rick! Please re-read and substitute GWB for the words you or your in the post. It's about hate crime legislation which is asinine, not about you. But before I go, could you answer one question for me? Is the mossad "them"? You posted earlier that we had become "them" our enemies because we stooped to their level. So my question is very valid, not malicious, not mean spirited, and not self conceived, you raised the issue, it's a very valid question which you continue to ignore. For what reason, I don't know. It's an easy question. Is the mossad them?

And by that question, I mean do they stoop as low, or lower than the terrorists who attack Israel? Valid question considering your post that we have stooped as low as terrorists. A valid question that for whatever reason scares the living he!! out of you, why?

robyy

when i refer to them, i mean the terrorists, not the
mossad. i am jewish not israeli. my forefathers lived there, not i. i have no interest in visiting israel or any other foreign country any more. when i traveled with the air force, i visited guam, iwo jima, okinawa, and japan. i liked japan and i liked the people, but i have no interst in going back to visit again.

when toby and i took our many cruises, we visited a lot of the islands in the caribbean and some group of island off the coast of panama called the san blas archipelago. look up kuna indians if you want to find out more about the place. i would liked to have stayed there longer then a day because the people and thir culture fascinated me. it is a matriarchal society and all the women smoke corn cobb pipes. i knew that before we visited and since i was a pipe smoker at the time i brought a pound of pipe tobacco with me to share. even though i shared the tobacco, they made me pay 25 cents to any parrot i took pictures of. the birds were mostly parrolets. they did have some larger birds, and they told me they ate them when they had the urge to eat bird meat, much like we would eat a chicken.

we stopped at nassau for a few hours and found the people to be so friendly that we went back and stayed there 10 days.

even though we don't gamble other then nickle slot machines, i find vegas the a restful place and we used to go there 3 or 4 times a year for two weeks at a time. now we are soending 3 weeks there on every trip. i have no intention to move there because then it would be where i live will all the minor problems that living anyplace present. this week it was the ice maker, last week it was something about the washing machine' and where you live people call you all the time. in vegas, we are anonynmous.

for the last 40 years my business selling insurance requires constant attention to people, which is perfectly fine with me, but if one paints houses, one doesn't visit paint stores on vacation, so anonymity is a peaceful pleasure.

but i digress.

perhaps you think of the mossad or any isreali intelligence group as terrorists. if that's the case, then again we disagree.

can't we all just get along?

robby, sometimes the "why" IS important. hate crimes carry harsher sentences because the difference is this: a broken nose to one person because of a particular incident (insult to date). a broken news "because" one is jewish is a message to ALL jews. it is, in short, considered an act of terrorism in the truest sense; the intent of hate crimes is to terrorize a GROUP of people.

Here you go Rick, this may help refresh your memory; the subject was “Is this what we have become” The inference is “we are equally as bad as “they”, “them”, read “the terrorists”. Looking back at the title, and then reading the cut and post from Ms Ivins, could you possibly see how it could be taken that way? Read it, and think about it…

The inference is, we are just as bad as the terrorists. Because according to Ms. Ivans and evidently you, we torture people without any justification…

“I doubt it helps any if they're supposed to be bringing democracy, either. “

”Is this what we have come to? Is this what we want our government to do for us?”

“The damage is incalculable. When America puts out its annual report on human rights abuses, we will be a laughingstock.”

http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/forum/forum.cfm?action=list&forumID=9&messageDisplay=0000000023426#236158 

Ok Rick, now that I’ve clarified my position, now that you have re-read your post, now that you understand my question FULLY!

Here it is again, if we are “them” or as bad as “them”, listen carefully now, here’s the 64 thousand dollar question.

“Is the Mossad “them”” Are they, the Israelis justified in what they do to extract information from people who have it when THEY need it? It’s a simple question and it is NOT an attack. You are Jewish, I support Israel, I support the Mossad and what they do, my question is, do you? And if your answer is yes, they how do you justify their actions and deplore ours? It’s really easy, and really hard at the same time, I’m very interested to see your response if and when it comes.

Cavallo, I maintain that your nose is no less broken or no more so broken based on the state of my feelings when I hit you (again folks, I'm not hitting Cavallo, I'm using allusion, this is a metaphor). So I maintain, what is important is the nose and the hitting, not the hate. The hate is immaterial. Would your nose take less longer to heal if I didn't hate you? Would it hurt less?

Why trivialize the punch because it’s not based on the hate of a group? A punch is a punch?

P.S., Rick, you're not off the hook... Answer the question please.

“Is the Mossad “them””

no.

Ok, so it's ok for the Mossad to torture people? They do, don't they? Why is it "ok" for the Mossad to torture people, but NOT ok for us to do it? And thank you for your acceptance of the fact that torture is justified.

good night gracie.

"Good morning George"

Ok, so it's ok for the Mossad to torture people? They do, don't they? Why is it "ok" for the Mossad to torture people, but NOT ok for us to do it? And thank you for your acceptance of the fact that torture is justified.

Maybe it is because I haven't followed this from the beginning but why does it matter what a foreign agency does?

You can't have it both ways. If you posted and agree with Ms Ivans, then the Mossad is "them" because the commit unspeakable acts in the name of their country against a lot of people who probably deserve it. If you believe that some things are justified given the gravity of the situation and the consequences if they are not done, then you are with me and many others and simply fane disgust at some of the recent BS. I'm pretty sure it's the later, I'm equally sure the serious contemplation of this issue makes you uncomfortable because it shines the light of truth on you beliefs which appear to be in clear contradiction with themselves, i.e., it's ok there, but it's not ok here. I support the Mossad doing these sorts of things, well obviously they have to, they're fighting terror, they're fighting for their very existence and I support Israel. Well then, that makes it an interesting question, doesn't it?

AVB, this question speaks to the posters core convictions if any, not specific legal jurisdictions. I know Rick likes to stir the pot, as do I. What I'm attempting to do is show that his position in this case is false, that he in fact does support state sanctioned torture by his support of Israel (He's Jewish) and his admittance that the Mossad is not them. You can't have it both ways, either it's acceptable or it's not acceptable. He has said already that it is NOT acceptable for us to do this and it makes us "them", read as low as the terrorists. And in the same breath turned around and said the Mossad is "not them". So I'm trying to find out who the real slim shady is. Won't you please stand up? Please stand up? Is the dichotomy not glaring here? Does there not appear to be a clear contradiction? I simply want to help Rick set the record straight on what he “actually” believes as opposed to what he says.

I for one feel so much better knowing that Robby is here to tell us what we believe. Imagine what it would be like without him here to ensure that our beliefs are what he feels they should be. Thank you Robby for protecting us from ourselves.

Then the question is: What proof does anyone have the Mossad uses torture?

I'm just trying to make sure everything is in some kind of order and not just "he said-she said"

UncleB, you're welcome. AVB, I will not honor that question with a response. It's not the question at hand. It's like asking me if I know the sun will come up tomorrow. It will, and yes, the Mossad tortures people, are you disputing this fact?

Hey AVB, do me a favor, go to google and enter these key words,

mossad torture Israel

Tell me how many hits you get? Thanks 😉