Yo Sonny_LSU;

Your statement:

"JR., my football bio was a rebutle to Russell rather than a chest-thumping episode.

Now, by all means, our country needs every single able-bodied young person to join the military (whatever)......actually, with GW it may actually be the case, otherwise he is going to eventually tap into our "retired vets/reserves". (Funny......he ran from serving in Vietnam but is more than willing to send everyone else's husbands, wives, sons, and daughters into harms way.) I respect those who proudly serve in our armed forces......that does not necessarily include the GED-clad would be bum who joined the military so he/she wouldn't be homeless. Just by virtue of being in the military does NOT entitle one to be automatically revered......some of these individuals had no other choice other than joining the armed forces (see previous GED statement)."

Yo Sonny:

You hit the nail right on the head, those GED people are so dumb they need to join the military to survive, why they are so freakin stupid they probably think Tahoe is in New Mexico.

JonR

I am not referring to pandering nations that want to "hurt" us. I am referring to old allies and neutral nations we have lost touch with.......come on, man.....stop trying to spin everything!

Sonny, please list these nations?? I seem to have missed this one...

as far as GED... does this make a person less a person because they do not hold an actual HS diploma but yet a GED?? lets see I cannot sit at your table because I only have a GED?? is this your thinking???

well I for one am damn proud of my GED and scores thereof... I also hold 1 yr college with more to come... yep see, I earnt me a GI bill while I spent my time Protecting folks like yourself.. at the same time I completed 9 yrs as a union carpenter, worked all types of farming, drove trucks, anything that would pay the bills and raise a family...

now back to the GI Bill... I can go to school on your tax dollars... thats right... You Sonny will be sending me to school for a higher education.. don't that just burn your britches??? and I don't have to pay a dime... I Earnt it with my service to my Country and you paid for it.. at this time I want to say Thank You for your caring and giving to allow me to advance my education on Your Wallet....

Hog

oh puhleez.....

JR., I already took the dumbass ticket for the Tahoe statement. Now, look closer, I was singling out a few individuals who enlist because society has no other option for them save for the street.

The GED comment was used to make a point. Russ, don't take a knee-jerk reaction to my statement, rather try to understand what point I was making.......trying to make.

Many of you approach dialog with the foresight of a rhino.

I'm with you Hog. Joined the Corps at 16 (which you could almost do without getting in trouble back then). Got my GED at Camp Pendleton, and over the rest of my career made it up to a Masters in Computer Science from Penn State.

Sometimes things are not what they seem for the reasons you think.

Once again Sonny

"I said that but I meant this"

LOL

Sonny wrote:

" I was singling out a few individuals who enlist because society has no other option for them save for the street."

SOCIETY has no other option for them?

Is it now society's burden?

What ever happened to personal responsiblity and choice?

Hey, gator I completely agree with you. It is NOT society's obligation. Do realize that I am fully aware of the MANY flaming success stories associated with those who have chosen to be in the military and they are to be commended and respected.

EI, is it my fault that some people can read without comprehending, thus I have to result to spoon feeding?

Again, Russ and gator, my comments OBVIOUSLY do NOT apply to you or, for that matter, most of those in uniform, so chill out.

Sonny,

I was never in the military.

You see, despite being ranked in the top 5 of my state for every major academic achiement award, I was not able to complete my 4 scholarship years at MIT and Harvard simultaneously.

It's unfortunate, since I was top 10 in the country in math, and top 15 in the world for social sciences. Not to mention my top 4 ranking in the universe for physics and chemistry.

What happened, you ask?

Well, it was that inadvertant lobotomy that I received soon after breaking every record ever set in every acedemic category ever created.

I don't know how it happened, but I guess that's to be expected, considering the injury.

Did I tell you I was ranked?

I'm great.

And please don't take this as chest thumping. I'm merely rebutting.

Did I just see Sonny cram a whole (rather large) group of people.....give them a label.... make derogatory statements about their mental abilities ... label their future as bleak...and cram them in a nutshell?

Wow...that's quite unusual for a liberal. It does, however point out the narrow, closed minded and intolerant thought process that Sonny and Rickmaven posess.

If I was one to apply a label to you....(based upon that single statement you made about the GED people)...which you seem to do with a number of people here I would say "Nazi".

But that single statement is not entirely descriptive of you...so the label wouldn't apply. As a matter of fact..it would be insulting and derogatory.

Or would it?

I can easily find a thousand GED earners who joined the military...went on to be successful...earned degrees...became everything from cops to teachers to business people.. for every one of your so called "street" people.

BTW...back to the thread...we have lost 900 or so soldiers in the Iraq action. How many soldiers do we lose to training accidents, stateside car accidents, suicide and crime every year during peace time?

It doesn't validate those deaths as being a trade off...but the numbers would narrow the gap of wartime loss vs normal attrition due to other causes. I dont' think any of our actions in Iraq have been in vain. I do believe we have shown a great deal of restraint and have kept our losses at a minimum.

BTW...back to the thread...we have lost 900 or so soldiers in the Iraq action. How many soldiers do we lose to training accidents, stateside car accidents, suicide and crime every year during peace time?

It doesn't validate those deaths as being a trade off...but the numbers would narrow the gap of wartime loss vs normal attrition due to other causes. I dont' think any of our actions in Iraq have been in vain. I do believe we have shown a great deal of restraint and have kept our losses at a minimum.

Good Post Rayder1

The Link below are just Casualties listed from the beginning of Operations

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Aug2004/d20040813cas.pdf 

I have not found the link to the Military Casualty report from the states as yet... meaning for the fiscal yr alone from Military members death rates from auto,motorcycle,Other around the country.. but I do know from being a ground safty NCO for 9 yrs these numbers are allot higher annually then the amount of deaths that have happened in Iraq to date...

Hog

wow, sonnyamaven.

He has blinders on and wil never see that fact that Iraq was necessary. Iraq supported terrorists. I don't care what reason we had for going over there it was needed. The UN is a big **** op or we would NOT be there.

You say if Bush had given a different reason you would support thewar - dude give up the semantics.

Armed Forces accident rates:

https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Force/Safety/Accidents/view_report.cgi/ 

Total DOD deaths were 1020 in 2000 (latest year I could find) so Iraq has just about doubled (or will soon) the death rate average.

You have to also take into consideration that a large number of those that would have died stateside from different causes were sent to Iraq.

You have to get into a theological discussion whether the same folks would have died there instead of stateside or at other peaceful assignments.

War is dangerous...but would Johnny NCO's have gotten drunk and crashed into a tree outside of Bremen Germany or caught a sniper round on patrol in Baghdad?

It would be interesting, statistically to see: If the Armed forces average 1000 deaths a year in assorted peacetime causes, how much is the average number raised by the Iraq conflict.

Obviously injuries will be much higher do the higher level of overall military activity than peacetime.

You have to consider that the 1020 total DOD deaths were from a 1.5 million population. The 925+ deaths in Iraq are from a population of about 140,000.

AVB to break it down.. the 925+ are from a total force at one time of a little over 250,000+ strong building up for Iraq during and after... but even the building up for was not in account here...

this is not a numbers game.. this is real life/death tolls we are talking about.. and at the same note as Rayder1 has pointed out... the number of military members deaths per year or quarter here in the US or US Military all together is not viewed as the "hot topic" what is viewed as Hot Topic is how it is played upon by the media and far left as to the Iraq situation and sometimes they mix in Afganistan deaths to try and get their points across...

one thing is for damn sure and it Makes the Military Fighting Men and Women Proud... the fact that the death counts are not coming from an American Civilian Count as per say... 911 World Trade Center, Pentagon nor American Airline or United... and for that everyone should just be damn proud of the sacrifices these men and women endure every day to keep America safe and a better way of life... you for one with 30+ yrs of service know this first hand...

One thing... this sure has been an intersting thread and it brings to light some of the touchy feely things to get to know one's take on the situation... Thus good debates!!!

Hog

Thanks for pointing out the rotation, it completely slipped by me. With some units going back for their 2nd tour the population may be as high as 350,000.

Beyond that, the underlaying question was and is..... should they have happened at all?

The answer is yes. Usahog pointed out why. And the understanding is made. The sacrafices made in Aphghanistan in our fight against the Al Queda and Taliban and in Iraq in our fight to liberate a terrorist sponsor is not in vain.

tailgater, sucks to be worthless doesn't it?

rayder, here's a donut for not comprehending my statements. oh wait! Have I just stereo typed you as the A typical donut loving cop?

Sonny time to change your story, Kerry just said he would still have gone to Iraq even if he knew then what he knows now.

They call him flipper, flipper, faster than lightning, no one you see, can flip flop like he