How many people do you know that fit this description?

former military
collect firearms
caucasian male

That is the same profile of another well known terrorist. If I had a friend fitting that description, I wouldn't be worried that he would bomb a building. I also don't look at other caucasian males, especially military and worry about the same thing. I wouldn't want to be someone fitting that description if that was suddenly a terrorist profile. There are hundreds of millions of male Muslims in the world and I refuse to think that it's right to look at every one as a possible terrorist.

Andy

I don't know of any passage in the Qur'an stating that non-believers should be killed. I think its a poor translation that some follow. Most follow this translation...

98:1-8, states: "The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." ("People of the Book" refers to Christians, Jews and Muslims).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does not Christianity believe that same thing? They don't go so far as to say vile, but non-believers still go to Hell.
Islam is also based on love and righteousness.

I hate to leave for the night without hearing responses. I'll be back later to check!!!

Skatty,
You definately know how to keep up your end of the arguement.......good work.

Yes, my intent was to "not" slander profiling, but rather point out that any race, creed, and/or religious preference can suffer from this. It is a good tool to use, but it has drawbacks. Most of them being the loss of freedom and rights of those that are innocent.

17-40 is a pretty broad age group, and personally I would feel pretty low as I pass through the screeners at the airport disregarded while 10-15 brown skinned fellow humans of mine were being interrogated.

I personally have no objection to EVERY passenger being screened.....that's a suggestion, eh? Oh but wait!!!!......now we are causing 5 hour lines at the airport and taking away the rights of white people, right?

There's an airport I utilize every 3 weeks or so where every single passenger is required to stand by while their bags are thouroughly (and I mean intensively) searched. You also have to empty your pockets and remove your shoes in full view of at least 2 guards. It takes about 4 hours to get through the security screening. If we were to do that in the USA, then we would never have a terrorist hijack of a plane again. The only problem is, would the American people accept it? I doubt it.....after all, they don't fit the profile.

I'm leary of Muslims too. However, I just wish that people would quit using the word as the equivalent of the word "enemy." We are fighting "terrorists," not "muslims." There is a difference.

By the way, our Christian Bible also says that anyone who is homosexual, masturbates, sleeps with anothers wife, or has sex with an animal (not your Rick), should be punished by Death. Yes, it actually says that. Is that so different from their beliefs? No, we just don't act on those words like the extremists do.

This board is a good board, and it's unfortunate that I see more and more threads with anti type references to non-white, non-Christian, non-American people on it.

The original message in this thread was a downright 100% attempt to stir up hatred for an entire race of people. Call it what you will, but it served no purpose but to instill hate.

Next time post something about Honky's, ****s, kikes, and ****........we need more hate in this world.

By the way, I'm white, former military, I own a lot of guns, I also have a few copies of "the anarchists cookbook," and "black death" floating around from my younger wilder years.......I really should be profiled.

Last Post and I'm ditching this thread;

Skatty;

I am relatively moderate in my views so I don't feel the need to argue religion, etc (whats the point right?). My father is rabid right. He told me that the Koran recommends violence against non-believers and I really thought that sounded like nonsense since I have had Muslim friends who were quite nice. That evening I spent about an hour checking out Koran passages and was SHOCKED!..... now, any scripture taken literally can cause all sorts of issues, but this stuff was VOLATILE!! There were even quotes from Muslim theologists who said that "Islam is NOT a tolerant religion, but "most" muslims are quite tolerant". I tried to stay on the path on "non-biased websites" but perhaps I failed in that respect. It probably warrants another look by both of us.

In any case LITERAL translation of scripture (fundamentalism) is bad in every religion, and one forgets that these were words of MEN, with ambitions and motives of sorts.

Adroomi;

I know that there were old testament passages that indicated that God was vengeful towards masturbators, and those (men) who laid with men, but wasn't that in the context of a specific order to individuals to multiply and create a bloodline?? (i.e. God wants us to have kids). I still don't buy this homosexuality as a sin crap. The God that I know doesn't care where you put your d&ck. I know this because the lessons in the bible teach compassion, forgiveness, and love; but hey.........that's my relationship with God, and it works for me..........and I masturbate (too frequently).

And how do the Mormons pull of polygamy? They have the same bible with a few added books. Its all in the translation.

Its nice to live in a country where we can discuss this sort of thing without big brother cutting in and........ whats that noise? Who's in my house? HEY, who is that guy all dressed in black with a H&K MP-5 Aughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

if the administration had paid more atention, if the fbi had been more dilligent in reporting the men learning to fly without learning to land, if, if, and more if, we would be discussing baseball players salaries insteading of profiling.

could 9/11 have been avoided? i don't know but information was available that might have prevented it.

i think we were so smug in our attitude of "we are safe in the usa" that i don't know who would have dealt with the real posibility. sun tsu said "when your enemy doesn't expect an attack, attack."

when the saudi's, remember they were not iraq's, caused the murder of 3,000 people, they accomplished in part what they set out to do, they changed america. we are past "no longer naive," we are willing to give up part of our liberty for what we hope will be our safety, and i can't remember who said if we do that we don't deserve either.

i have to disagree with adroomi in part (ever the politician in me) israel profiles and has done so since entebbe, and el al is no longer hijacked. perhaps this countries history of racism has made the idea of profiling the group of "Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" or perhaps he missed the word extremists because we don't really know who they are so the broad base "muslim etc.." target group does appear to be racist.

"i think more people have been killed in the name of god" cliché is used more because we accept the fact that the hitler's and stalin's are bad, but we are surprised when "christians" kill in the name of thier god.

"and how do the Mormons pull off polygamy?"

In the early years of their church, they were being heavily persecuted. This resulted in a large deficiency of men. Their prophet recieved what he believed to be revelation that the men that were left were to marry single women...both to populate the religion as well as to take care of those in need. It was outlawed in the church shortly thereafter as the government threatened violence against them. From then on, anyone who practiced it would be excommunicated from the church. There are some in Utah today that still practice polygamy however they are not in any way affiliated with the church. As an added note...there are many instances in the bible in which the children of Israel took extra wives. David and Solomon had several, and Abraham was explicitly commanded to take an extra wife, Hagar...who according to the bible gave birth to a son that ultimately led to the middle eastern race and laid the ground work for islam...."

it all comes full circle.

oh yeah...sorry for the threadjack

If we profiled on 9/11....

You can live in your own Utopia, but facts are facts.

Sometimes it's really that simple.

Excellent thread!

RICK SAID:"i have to disagree with adroomi in part (ever the politician in me) israel profiles and has done so since entebbe, and el al is no longer hijacked. perhaps this countries history of racism has made the idea of profiling the group of "Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40" or perhaps he missed the word extremists because we don't really know who they are so the broad base "muslim etc.." target group does appear to be racist.

*ISRAEL has proven that it works. They don't worry about hurt feelings.

RICK SAID: "i think more people have been killed in the name of god" cliché is used more because we accept the fact that the hitler's and stalin's are bad, but we are surprised when "christians" kill in the name of thier god."

*CHRISTIANS are not perfect, but the basis of our faith is love for our fellow man- NOT vengeance and intolerance. This distortion is not generally accepted by most Christians unlike our Muslim counterparts where many of the "peaceful" ones appear to condone the practices of their terrorist brothers.

Unfortunately, we (Christians) are also held to a higher standard by those who have no standards.


(threadjack on)

Hey EI, what's new with the NASCAR circuit?! I don't know...I've heard things...(Robert DeNiro) LOL!!

(threadjack off)

Robert DeNiro wants to drive in NASCAR? Wow, what a posting! Maybe Al Pacino would come in and drive against him as well!

LOL

Charlie........threadjack continued!

(threadjack on)

Hey EI, what's new with the NASCAR circuit?! I don't know...I've heard things...(Robert DeNiro) LOL!!

(threadjack off)

NexAsk NexTel

More threadjack

How about letting Richard Simmons drive in NASCAR, he could drive a shocking pink car with all kinds of floral design etc!!!!!!!!!!!

Sponsers could include: Kotex, Channel #5, Gay TV Network, ACLU, Martha Stewart.


Charlie

The muslim extremists that planned the 9/11 attacks were arabic, the "shoe bomber, as well as many of the muslim extremists that bombed the US embassies were african, many of the foreign freedom fighters that came to the defense of the taliban were from China and there was even one white kid from California that was fighting with the Taliban. So, if we are to profile and check everyone who might be a muslim extremist, then we must check all white, oriental, black, and middle-eastern males equally. Oh wait.. I think we already do that.
I'm sorry, what's the problem?
Que
P.S. These were the same points that I used when I was called to keep an eye on an Arabic family that was in the emergency room because they "may be terrorists."

By the way, the US embassies that I refer to were the ones in Africa. I need to proof read!

Que,
Was the shoe bomber typical or atypical?
How about johnny walker, the white kid?

Profiling on the morning of 9/11 could have saved thousands of lives.

I don't claim to know everything, so please explain to me how I'm wrong. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

As far as whether or not the shoe bomber is typical or atypical, you have to look at the resources of the individuals. For instance, most of the Somalia militia that fought the US rangers, Delta and the 10th mountain were muslim extremists and many have said that they would kill as many Americans as they can. Most of them just cannot get out of Somalia to kill Americans, most of those that can are currently going to Iraq so they are not putting explosives in their shoes and trying to blow up airliners, but they are doing what they can to kill Americans. As far as if that Walker person (who I do see as a traitor) is typical or not, perhaps there are not that many white kids from California that are involved on the muslim side of this "jihad" but I have been to the middle east and I do know that there are many arabic men who could pass for whites. The point that I was trying to make is that there are muslim extremists of all skin tones and in order to keep this nation safe, we have to watch for all of them, not just some of them.
9/11 was very sad and I am just as pissed about it as anyone else, but it happened and we need to quit talking about what could have stopped an attack over four years ago and start talking about how to keep this nation safe now. Perhaps profiling could have stopped the attacks, but we did not stop those attacks and that is very sad. But we now have to look at what will keep the next one from occuring, and if we start profiling, then the terrorists will start using people that we are not looking for. As I said before, we need to watch for ALL terrorists, not just some of them.
In my previous post, I forgot to mention the muslim revolutionaries in the Phillipines that kidnapped some Americans and Europeans shortly aafter 9/11. I guess we have to watch out for polynesians as well.
Que

Hey Leave us dope smokers alone. What did we do to you.........


stic

Que,
You clearly state "Perhaps profiling could have stopped the attacks".

I agree with this.
It's the reason that profiling, when conducted correctly, DOES work. Which is the reason I think we should do more of it, not less.

That doesn't mean, however, that we should simply ignore everybody else. We can profile and still maintain tight security. It's not one or the other.

Profiling is only racist when those who perform it let it become that. With proper checks and balances it doesn't have to be racially motivated.
A little heightened awareness when checking a 30 year old male Arabic Muslim should not be considered a bad thing.
Making Granny remove her shoes to visit her grandkids, on the other hand, is a bit overboard. But we do it to satiate those who cry racism. Not because we expect to find anything.
That is counter productive and a total waste of resources.

Adroomi, believe it, I am profiling you... especially since you suggested we profile dope smokers.

Just to set the record straight, christian political groups are not Christian; what is, followers of Christ. In the 60's you could buy a conversion kit for your VW Beetle that would make it look like a miniature Rolls Royce. It was not a Rolls even though it had a RR on the front; it was still just a VW Bug. Those so call christian groups were not Christians no matter what church origination's name they went under. Like my dad used to say, those killers are going to "split Hell wide open!" No matter what banner they operate under, the Judge of judges is going to say, "Depart from me for I never knew you." A Killer by any other name is still a killer.

An interesting historical fact: the twentieth century accounted for more Christian martyrs than all the other centuries combined.

The disturbing thing about profiling is that once a "tool" is used in one area, the govt usually expands its use into many other areas little by little.