topper7788
15 years ago

Israeli politics rock! Nobody is ever happy with anything. From the Jerusalem Post:



PM's opponents on Left and Right urged him to stay in Washington, continue to receive nearly unanimous affirmation from US politicians,


Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu may have received 26 standing ovations from Senators and Congressmen during his speech to them on Tuesday but Knesset members from across the political spectrum were much tougher on him.

His political opponents on the Left and hard Right urged Netanyahu to stay in Washington, where he could continue to receive nearly unanimous affirmation from American politicians, with the exception of US President Barack Obama.

One of the only MKs who released a statement praising Netanyahu was Otniel Schneller of Kadima, who said the prime minister had succeeded in speaking for a consensus of Israelis. Schneller urged his faction to put politics aside in favor of the national interest.

But a Kadima spokesman accused Netanyahu of unnecessarily harming relations with the United States and said he would be judged by his actions and not his oratory capabilities. Kadima MK Yoel Hasson accused the prime minister of staging an election campaign from Washington.

"Netanyahu's speech to Congress was an election commercial," Hasson said. "It was an attempt by Netanyahu to present a false impression that he is willing to enter negotiations. The people of Israel should not be enticed and should understand that Netanyahu's policies will lead not only to international isolation, but also to a bi-national state."

"Netanyahu received the greatest applause when he said that Israel is the land of our forefathers and that Jerusalem will not be divided, so there was no need for him to declare that he is willing to give up large portions of our homeland to the Arabs," Ben-Ari's National Union colleague Aryeh Eldad said. "Saying that he is willing to abandon settlements will only encourage the Arabs to ask for more and we are liable to pay for this in blood."

Likud ministers Gideon Sa'ar, Limor Livnat and Yuli Edelstein praised Netanyahu for presenting Israel's case well. They said the Palestinian reaction to the speech proved that there was no partner on the Palestinian side. Likud officials expressed confidence that Netanyahu's coalition would not be endangered by the speech.

A Sarid Institute poll broadcast on Channel 2 Tuesday night found that 38 percent of Israelis found Netanyahu most fit to be prime minister and 35% opposition leader Tzipi Livni. The poll found that the Likud had grown in support at Kadima's expense.

Since the last poll taken by the institute during a crisis over gas prices, Kadima fell by five seats and Likud rose by four. The poll found that if elections were held now, Likud would win 34 seats, Kadima 29, Israel Beiteinu 14, and Labor eight.

HockeyDad wrote:



Polititians playing at politics? Who would have thought? Personally I'm SHOCKED !!!

Thankfully this wouldn't happen here!!! LOL
DrMaddVibe
15 years ago
Netanyahu says will give up some land for peace

By Jeffrey Heller
1 hr 35 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Israel is prepared to make "painful compromises" for peace with the Palestinians, including the handover of land they seek for a state, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told Congress on Tuesday.

Palestinians swiftly dismissed the Israeli leader's terms for a deal as placing more obstacles in diplomacy's way, casting doubt as to whether frozen peace talks would resume anytime soon.

Netanyahu received frequent standing ovations in addressing the joint meeting of Congress, a bastion of support for Israel. The speech came after a testy exchange last week with President Barack Obama over the contours of a future Palestine and Netanyahu used it to reiterate his expectations ahead of any talks.

They included Palestinian recognition of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people and the scrapping of Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' unity accord with the Islamist movement Hamas.

"Tear up your pact with Hamas. Sit down and negotiate. Make peace with the Jewish state," Netanyahu said.
"I am willing to make painful compromises to achieve this historical peace. As the leader of Israel, it is my responsibility," the right-wing leader said, echoing a pledge in a speech to Israel's parliament on May 15.
"Now this is not easy for me. It's not easy because I recognize that in a genuine peace we will be required to give up parts of the ancestral Jewish homeland," he said, referring to the occupied West Bank.

Netanyahu explicitly suggested for the first time that Israel would cede some Jewish settlements in the West Bank, although others would be annexed under any future agreement.

"In any peace agreement that ends the conflict, some settlements will end up beyond Israel's borders. The precise delineation of those borders must be negotiated," Netanyahu said.

'COMPROMISE MUST REFLECT DRAMATIC CHANGES'

Netanyahu said any "compromise must reflect the dramatic demographic changes that have occurred," referring to Israel's construction of hundreds of settlements on land Palestinians want for a state.

Repeating a message he has delivered consistently during a five-day visit to Washington, Netanyahu said "Israel will not return to the indefensible boundaries of 1967," narrow lines from before Israel captured the West Bank in a war 44 years ago.

Obama drew Israeli anger when he said on Thursday a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip should largely be drawn along the pre-1967 frontiers.

A frosty meeting with Netanyahu followed at the White House on Friday when the Israeli leader, with Obama sitting at his side, rejected those borders.

On Sunday, Obama seemed to ease Israeli anger by making clear Israel would likely be able to negotiate keeping some settlements as part of a land swap in any deal with the Palestinians.

The White House offered a low-key response to Netanyahu's speech. Ben Rhodes, a deputy national security adviser, said in London that the Israeli leader had "reaffirmed the strength of the U.S.-Israeli relationship" and had "pointed to the importance of peace." Obama is visiting London.

Nabil Abu Rdainah, a spokesman for Abbas, said Netanyahu's vision for ending the conflict put "more obstacles" in front of the Middle East peace process.

"What came in Netanyahu's speech will not lead to peace," Rdainah said in the West Bank city of Ramallah, rejecting Netanyahu's call to hold onto swathes of West Bank land including East Jerusalem, where Palestinians want their capital.

Hani Masry, a Palestinian analyst said Netanyahu "wants the Palestinians to give up everything and get a state of leftovers."

On the other side, settler leaders and members from Netanyahu's own Likud party also voiced their objections, but with no diplomatic breakthrough in sight, his ruling coalition did not seem to be in jeopardy.

Netanyahu's address was greeted warmly by congressional leaders. Some Israelis pointed to that reception as a success while others thought he had not offered enough to break the diplomatic deadlock.

"What he's offering I don't think you would find even the most moderate Palestinians would buy into," David Newman, an Israeli political scientist, said. "He's offering a truncated West Bank. He wants to leave as many settlements as possible."

Netanyahu called on Palestinians to see their future "homeland," rather than Israel, as the place to resolve the issue of Palestinian refugees.

He again voiced opposition to a planned bid by the Palestinians to seek U.N. recognition of statehood in September in the absence of peace talks.

"Peace cannot be imposed," he said. "It must be negotiated."
HockeyDad
15 years ago

Polititians playing at politics? Who would have thought? Personally I'm SHOCKED !!!

Thankfully this wouldn't happen here!!! LOL

topper7788 wrote:





You would think they wouldn't play politics over such a life or death situation in the face of imminent war. I've been conditioned to believe the attack from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and the Palestinians could come at any moment.

Perhaps there has been a slight exaggeration?

topper7788
15 years ago

You would think they wouldn't play politics over such a life or death situation in the face of imminent war. I've been conditioned to believe the attack from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and the Palestinians could come at any moment.

Perhaps there has been a slight exaggeration?

HockeyDad wrote:




Like I said, thankfully it would never happen here!!! (trying not to laugh)
wheelrite
15 years ago

Like I said, thankfully it would never happen here!!! (trying not to laugh)

topper7788 wrote:



Why has HD moderated his postings since his OP ???

fishinguitarman
15 years ago

Why has HD moderated his postings since his OP ???

wheelrite wrote:







Puberty
HockeyDad
15 years ago

Why has HD moderated his postings since his OP ???

wheelrite wrote:





You made a compelling argument and Netanyahu offered nothing new. I accept your peace plan.
frankj1
15 years ago

You made a compelling argument and Netanyahu offered nothing new. I accept your peace plan.

HockeyDad wrote:


please stop the idiotic pretense of Wheelrite suggesting what you have posted a thousand times.
frankj1
15 years ago

Israel fired first in the 1967 war. Israel attacked first in the 1967 war. Nothing I said was incorrect. If you launch a preemptive strike, you fired first. It is no big deal and doesn't even need any historical revision. It was a genius attack.

The key thing is Israel gained the West Bank from Jordan through peace treaty. Israel gained the Gaza Strip from Egypt through peace treaty. I'm on board with the Wheelrite One State Solution. My message to those in the West Bank and Gaza is "Welcome to Israel! Now assimilate."

Nobody else even offered a plan for a 2 state solution.

HockeyDad wrote:


fired first is much different, given the circumstances of being under seige, than starting a war and you absolutely know the difference and the truth despite some nonsense that is written...you really do know the truth.
wheelrite
15 years ago
Netanyahu's speech today was a masterpiece.He is is a true leader that has a grasp of the real world situation.Not, some Ivory Tower Acacdemia crap.

His speech today will be be remembered as the time he educated America on the reality of the mid east.

Obama is dwarfed by BB
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

Netanyahu's speech today was a masterpiece.He is is a true leader that has a grasp of the real world situation.Not, some Ivory Tower Acacdemia crap.

His speech today will be be remembered as the time he educated America on the reality of the mid east.

Obama is dwarfed by BB

wheelrite wrote:



Yikes. That's taking a dislike of Obama and moving it to some serious anti-american bullsh*t right there.
wheelrite
15 years ago

Yikes. That's taking a dislike of Obama and moving it to some serious anti-american bullsh*t right there.

FuzzNJ wrote:



no,,,

Obama is truly a light weight.He seriously is not up to the task when it comes the Israel and Palestine.
FuzzNJ
15 years ago

no,,,

Obama is truly a light weight.He seriously is not up to the task when it comes the Israel and Palestine.

wheelrite wrote:



Whatever you say.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

please stop the idiotic pretense of Wheelrite suggesting what you have posted a thousand times.

frankj1 wrote:




If you don't like Wheelrite's plan you are more than welcome to debate it and offer something that might be better.
HockeyDad
15 years ago

fired first is much different, given the circumstances of being under siege, than starting a war and you absolutely know the difference and the truth despite some nonsense that is written...you really do know the truth.

frankj1 wrote:





Israel first first and started that war. That history is pretty well established. I'm not sure why you feel the need to rewrite it.

HockeyDad
15 years ago
I am expecting another round of outrage based on the fact that Obama didn't stick around for Netanyahu's speech to congress and instead jetted off to Europe to have a Guinness and hang with the Brits and talk about our special relationship.

Netanyahu and Obama are both up for reelection and had to do what they did. Obama has the added pressure of trying to grab on to the "Arab Spring" upheaval and try to act like the USA is leading not following on that turmoil. The funny thing is that neither Obama or Netanyahu actually stated anything new.

My prediction......they both win!
rfenst
15 years ago
My overall impression is that since there are no ongoing impressions, Obama just repeated what PLO's demand is to try to get a dialogue going.

The real issue is Jerusalem and religious sites and each side's impression of what G-D said to them. Christians, Jews and Muslims have rights to access their holly sites. Unless Jerusalem UN puts troops on the ground with real authority to fight (not even possible!)- the world issue or at least they American Jewish and Religious right Christians would likely prefer Israel to retain majority of control

All the rest, other than military security for Israel and is no increased, potentially hostile borders, being increased (contiguity between West Bank and Gaza).

Israel will never go for a one state Solution. Neither will Palestinians. Non-starter already beat to death x10 by HockeyDad.
HockeyDad
15 years ago



Israel will never go for a one state Solution. Neither will Palestinians. Non-starter already beat to death x10 by HockeyDad.

rfenst wrote:




So now that I'm on board with Wheelrite's solution, you tell me it is a non-starter?

Jesus H Christ!
teedubbya
15 years ago
Ive been staying out of this one because I really don't know enough about it. It has been an interesting thread and I have learned a bit....albiet some of it may not be accurate or at a minimum presented through a biased filter.

Near as I can tell nothing has happened.

The big O didn't say anything earth shattering and those who dislike him still do. They see his speech as something horrifying like bowing to the chinks/japs or giving the queen an ipod. (side note - I'm confused because during the last admin we decided we didn't care what the world thought about us, and now we aparantly do). Some say the jews should finally realize the dems hate them (there is a bit of irony given the black/jew relationship/stereotype...ala heimetown and JJ). Interesting dynamic there. The big O lovers for the most part are still ok with the dolt.

In reality, it was a nothing speech with no action/teeth. big ben didn't say anything new either. Those entranched in the anti-obama (and some big o folks that are especially strong Israel supporters) cheer it loudly and see it as ben showing the O the what for. It is also a weird dynamic when Americans start cheering and hoping foriegn leaders, and recently arab news outlets, will chastise our Prez and by extention US. Very weird. That used to piss us off at them, not at ourselves.

If this was a chess game no peice would have been moved and we would still be waiting for the timer to go off. And the grass would keep growing.
DrMaddVibe
15 years ago
...and Leon is getting LARGER!!![whip]
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