Porksoda
12 years ago
Hey all,

First, thank you for the nice reception the other day. Now for my concern. I have been browsing the forums here and have seen a few threads that had info about rebanding. A couple brands were mentioned, Graycliff, Monte Cristo and Sosa possibly. I buy and smoke all of these. Does this re-banding still happen? I purchase alot through the sites mentioned and am not happy with the possibilities.

I'm not new to cigars by any means, but this was not something I had not heard about before. Any info is appreciated.
DrafterX
12 years ago
happens all the time..... 😟
victor809
12 years ago
I heard that most online retailers buy a lot of Victor Sinclair seconds, and re-label them with Graycliff and Monte Cristo labels to sell online.
As long as you buy in a brick and mortar shop you're ok tho.


:-$
Porksoda
12 years ago
How is this even legal?
victor809
12 years ago

How is this even legal?

Porksoda wrote:



It's cool. At this time 98.2% of all the Greycliffs and Monte Cristos smoked in the US are actually relabeled Victor Sinclair seconds... so in reality, all the reviews you read on those cigars (most vitolas) are for the Victor Sinclairs too (some of this explains discrepancy between reviewers in many cases).

Who knew... the world actually loves Victor Sinclair seconds..
bassman45
12 years ago

I heard that most online retailers buy a lot of Victor Sinclair seconds, and re-label them with Graycliff and Monte Cristo labels to sell online.
As long as you buy in a brick and mortar shop you're ok tho.


:-$

victor809 wrote:




😂
TrishS@CigarBid
12 years ago

How is this even legal?

Porksoda wrote:




He's pulling your leg Porksoda.

Manufacturers change the bands on their cigars all the time. Some of the time, its just to freshen up the look of it. Other times its a cost saving measure. A big, fancy band, a silk foot band, etc. cost money. Just like everyone else in the world, they have to look at ways to save a penny here and there and this is one way they do it. Nothing nefarious about it, just marketing.
victor809
12 years ago
Sigh...
since Trish is watching, I better nip this in the bud.

Those threads you read were likely from people spreading their own bit of misinformation. No cigar manufacturer is going to make internet only lots, and B&M only lots... and the physical effort of re-labeling a cigar is ridiculous when you consider the scale these companies work at.

They're exactly what it says on the label.
DrafterX
12 years ago
you should've Snopesed this before posting... 🤐
victor809
12 years ago

He's pulling your leg Porksoda.

TrishS@CigarBid wrote:



Thank you Trish. :)

(of course she's going to say this Pork... she's PART OF IT!!! trust no one....)


(meet me behind the Politics forum and I'll give you the real truth behind the internet cigars)
DrafterX
12 years ago



(meet me behind the Politics forum and I'll give you the real truth behind the internet cigars)

victor809 wrote:





I bet that's what you told CROS..!! 😠
Porksoda
12 years ago
The posts I read here and on other forums didnt say the manufacturers were doing it, the sellers were basically buying the labels and putting them on house blends. The ones who posted this on this site seem to be long time posters.
TrishS@CigarBid
12 years ago

The posts I read here and on other forums didnt say the manufacturers were doing it, the sellers were basically buying the labels and putting them on house blends. The ones who posted this on this site seem to be long time posters.

Porksoda wrote:




Speaking for one distributor, I can tell you it doesn't happen.
JadeRose
12 years ago

The posts I read here and on other forums didnt say the manufacturers were doing it, the sellers were basically buying the labels and putting them on house blends. The ones who posted this on this site seem to be long time posters.

Porksoda wrote:





I do believe this happens all the time and CI/Cbid is one of the biggest offenders. Can I say that for certain? Nope. But it's what I believe is happening. I'm not saying they are necessarily "inferior" cigars. I just don't think they are the same ones you can buy in a B&M. A perfect example of this (to me) is La Perla Habana. The old school Black Pearl Rojo's I used to buy at a B&M were great. The ones on here are not the same cigar. They just aren't. And, unsurprisingly, the ONLY place I know of where La Perla can be bought now is from CI/CBID and the mysterious "other place".



I don't know. Sorry Trish...not trying to piss you off. The noob asked a question..I answered with what I believe to be the answer.
Porksoda
12 years ago
Well thank everyone for the responses, even the tongue in cheek ones, lol.

I dont want to start a pissing contest, just wanted to get some info on what I spend my hard earned on.
TrishS@CigarBid
12 years ago

I do believe this happens all the time and CI/Cbid is one of the biggest offenders. Can I say that for certain? Nope. But it's what I believe is happening. I'm not saying they are necessarily "inferior" cigars. I just don't think they are the same ones you can buy in a B&M. A perfect example of this (to me) is La Perla Habana. The old school Black Pearl Rojo's I used to buy at a B&M were great. The ones on here are not the same cigar. They just aren't. And, unsurprisingly, the ONLY place I know of where La Perla can be bought now is from CI/CBID and the mysterious "other place".



I don't know. Sorry Trish...not trying to piss you off. The noob asked a question..I answered with what I believe to be the answer.

JadeRose wrote:




You know, this is always touted as THE cigar that gets rebanded by us. But here's how it works:

The original La Perla hit the cigar world like a rocket! Everyone loved them and bought them up. With increased production, costs needed to be reviewed and that cute little silk footband was expensive - not just to produce but the added manpower to put it on the cigar. So when that was removed, folks immediately said it was reblended. Sales may have dropped off slightly or maybe not, I'm not certain. But the brand is now slightly diminished.

Now add into the mix this is a boutique brand so the tobacco is often-times limited in quantity. With that ealier increased production, that delicious wrapper is gone. So they go out to purchase more just like it but alas there is none to be found. And the brand loses much of its luster.

As all of you know, tobacco taste changes based on environmental conditions during its growth. When that specific wrapper was gone, they tried other wrapper from a different year. It tasted similar but not exactly the same. So no....the blend did NOT change but the wrapper leaf DID change.

Think about it....if that brand was still a HUGE money maker for the manufacturer, why would they sell it? Answer: They wouldn't.

To suggest that we reband inferior cigars is irresponsible at best and libilous at worst.

So, why is it that those cigar stores have the 'original' cigars? Simple - they stored them away or just didn't sell them. There are a lot of savvy cigar store owners out there. They may have put them away from their stock, purchased it from individuals who had them stored from their own stock, etc.

I'm not upset with you Tiger, I just can't believe that you think so little of this company as to suggest we do this.

Whatever, you'll believe what you want and its easiest to think that the giant company is evil. That for some reason we took this superb cigar and junked it up. I guess that makes sense in some idiotic way.

I know that many of you are thinking that I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm just saying this because I work for this company. But how many of you have spent the past 13 years doing nothing but learning about and discussing cigars? So while you don't have to consider me an expert, you do have to acknowledge that I may know something of what I speak. And I've never BS'd you. When we've been at fault, I've acknowledged it.

So....do with this information what you wish. I know that many of you will disregard it because its contrary to what you 'know'. Again, whatever. I certainly can't force you to understand it.
victor809
12 years ago

I do believe this happens all the time and CI/Cbid is one of the biggest offenders. Can I say that for certain? Nope. But it's what I believe is happening. I'm not saying they are necessarily "inferior" cigars. I just don't think they are the same ones you can buy in a B&M. A perfect example of this (to me) is La Perla Habana. The old school Black Pearl Rojo's I used to buy at a B&M were great. The ones on here are not the same cigar. They just aren't. And, unsurprisingly, the ONLY place I know of where La Perla can be bought now is from CI/CBID and the mysterious "other place".

JadeRose wrote:



I'm gonna have to back Trish on this.

Seriously, I remember the old school La Perla Habana Black Pearls... they were delicious.

Then, at some point in time they changed their blends and labeling. This doesn't mean that cbid gets different Black Pearls... it means EVERYONE got different black pearls. I see the same new, less tasty black pearls at B&Ms as I see on here (and I'm not gonna buy any of them).

Look at it this way, from a business standpoint. If you are going to create an entirely new blend strictly for online sales, you are going to differentiate it in some way from your standard for two reasons:
1 - You or the vendor may want to capitalize on its exclusivity, (see the CI Legends series); or
2 - Make sure that it isn't going to reduce the reputation of your main blend (I'm thinking 2nds)

No manufacturer is going to create two identically named cigar blends, but keep the contents and labels different as well as distribution network... that would cost more than they could possibly save in cheaper tobacco.
JadeRose
12 years ago
I know I'm walking a thin line so I will be very careful about what I say.........You said.."Think about it....if that brand was still a HUGE money maker for the manufacturer, why would they sell it? Answer: They wouldn't. "

That doesn't really answer any questions.....Did they sell it to CI? You have the right obviously to not answer that...hell, you have the right to boot me, but I know a LOT of people are genuinely curious.

Next you said....


"To suggest that we reband inferior cigars is irresponsible at best and libilous at worst."

Let me be very clear.....I am IN NO WAY suggesting that CI is rebanding garbage cigars. I'm not saying that nor do I believe that. I BELIEVE that CI is now part of a huge conglomerate that is consolidating as much of the cigar world as they can. It's good business practice. They buy up these labels and do their very best to replicate them. Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't. IF CI owns the label, they are ABSOLUTELY within their right to use that label. The problem comes in marketing. If a customer sees an old favorite...something he/she has smoked for YEARS.... on CI (or any of the other players) and buys it thinking he is getting the same old cigar that he loves and it turns out to be completely different...what's he supposed to think? And THEN he goes to a B&M and can continue to buy that old cigar......that guy thinks "What the hell is going on?" I see your points and understand them. I also don't think of you as just a company shill. I still think you guys are the best of the best on the interwebs...if I didn't why would I still be here? Making fun of Wheelrite is fun and all but hardly counts as a hobby..or even very sporting.
victor809
12 years ago


Let me be very clear.....I am IN NO WAY suggesting that CI is rebanding garbage cigars. I'm not saying that nor do I believe that. I BELIEVE that CI is now part of a huge conglomerate that is consolidating as much of the cigar world as they can. It's good business practice. They buy up these labels and do their very best to replicate them. Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't. IF CI owns the label, they are ABSOLUTELY within their right to use that label. The problem comes in marketing. If a customer sees an old favorite...something he/she has smoked for YEARS.... on CI (or any of the other players) and buys it thinking he is getting the same old cigar that he loves and it turns out to be completely different...what's he supposed to think? And THEN he goes to a B&M and can continue to buy that old cigar......that guy thinks "What the hell is going on?" I see your points and understand them. I also don't think of you as just a company shill. I still think you guys are the best of the best on the interwebs...if I didn't why would I still be here? Making fun of Wheelrite is fun and all but hardly counts as a hobby..or even very sporting.

JadeRose wrote:



I think I understand what you're suggesting here...

but the point you're missing is that if CI did buy a label and start selling it, then those old cigars you find in a B&M aren't being made any more, they're just old inventory.. you can't "continue to buy that old cigar"... you can buy up any old stock you find, but it isn't getting made any more. It's an important distinction.
JadeRose
12 years ago

I'm gonna have to back Trish on this.

Seriously, I remember the old school La Perla Habana Black Pearls... they were delicious.

Then, at some point in time they changed their blends and labeling. This doesn't mean that cbid gets different Black Pearls... it means EVERYONE got different black pearls. I see the same new, less tasty black pearls at B&Ms as I see on here (and I'm not gonna buy any of them).

Look at it this way, from a business standpoint. If you are going to create an entirely new blend strictly for online sales, you are going to differentiate it in some way from your standard for two reasons:
1 - You or the vendor may want to capitalize on its exclusivity, (see the CI Legends series); or
2 - Make sure that it isn't going to reduce the reputation of your main blend (I'm thinking 2nds)

No manufacturer is going to create two identically named cigar blends, but keep the contents and labels different as well as distribution network... that would cost more than they could possibly save in cheaper tobacco.

victor809 wrote:




I know and agree with all this..BUT...when was the last time you saw LaPerla in a B&M? When was the last time you saw virtually ANY of the same Gurkha's that CI sells in a B&M?

We all know that wrappers can change and blends have to be tweaked and who much gives a crap about the fancy banding. It's the marketing I have issue with. Saying a cigar got a "95" rating when you are talking about a blend from 10 years ago. Does CI do this? I don't know...you tell me.
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