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Man robs bank to get medical care in jail
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FuzzNJ Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 12:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
MTappert wrote:
Im going to defend my position in regards to my health insurance.

I was lucky enough to grow up with parents that did well in school (chicago public schools), paid their way through college, went out and got decent jobs that they worked hard at, got promotions and were offered health insurance for themselves and their family.

When I went to college, which I paid for (still am paying for, damn student loans) I had to buy into the universities health insurance (which I paid for) when I graduated, I immediately started paying for my own health insurance so I would maintain continual coverage as to not allow any "issues" with insurance companies denying me coverage for whatever reason.

I worked for about 3.5 years after college until my job was eliminated at the company I was working for. I was unemployed/underemployed for about 9 months until I was able to secure another good job that uses my expensive finance degree that I paid for. While I was unemployed/underemployed, I worked side jobs, started my own small landscaping company, and worked digging ditches for a telecom company. I was a 25 year old with a Finance degree from a GOOD private school, and I went to digging ditches paying for my own health care instead of filing for unemployment and state subsidized health care for 9 months, even tho I had paid into those accounts for 3.5 years and was legally "entitled" to do so. I did reduce me coverage to be able to afford my health insurance. I had credit cards with open balances over $10K so I reduced my coverage so my deductible was $10K and anything over that would be covered.

I wasnt making much money digging holes so I made my priorities.

1) I didnt go out to the bar and spend money on beer, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
2) I didnt buy any new clothes, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
3) I didnt go to restaurants to eat dinner I could make at home, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
4) I didnt fly home to Chicago to see my parents, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.

Sometimes when you are down and out you need to make sacrifices and really prioritize your life.

/rant


And everyone is a healthy 25 year old with a finance degree. Just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, right?

I am glad that you realize that you were lucky to have grown up the way you did though. Most people won't even acknowledge that much and claim they did everything all on their own.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
MTappert wrote:
Im going to defend my position in regards to my health insurance.

I was lucky enough to grow up with parents that did well in school (chicago public schools), paid their way through college, went out and got decent jobs that they worked hard at, got promotions and were offered health insurance for themselves and their family.

When I went to college, which I paid for (still am paying for, damn student loans) I had to buy into the universities health insurance (which I paid for) when I graduated, I immediately started paying for my own health insurance so I would maintain continual coverage as to not allow any "issues" with insurance companies denying me coverage for whatever reason.

I worked for about 3.5 years after college until my job was eliminated at the company I was working for. I was unemployed/underemployed for about 9 months until I was able to secure another good job that uses my expensive finance degree that I paid for. While I was unemployed/underemployed, I worked side jobs, started my own small landscaping company, and worked digging ditches for a telecom company. I was a 25 year old with a Finance degree from a GOOD private school, and I went to digging ditches paying for my own health care instead of filing for unemployment and state subsidized health care for 9 months, even tho I had paid into those accounts for 3.5 years and was legally "entitled" to do so. I did reduce me coverage to be able to afford my health insurance. I had credit cards with open balances over $10K so I reduced my coverage so my deductible was $10K and anything over that would be covered.

I wasnt making much money digging holes so I made my priorities.

1) I didnt go out to the bar and spend money on beer, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
2) I didnt buy any new clothes, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
3) I didnt go to restaurants to eat dinner I could make at home, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.
4) I didnt fly home to Chicago to see my parents, I paid for my own health insurance and rent so I wouldnt have to suck off the government teet.

Sometimes when you are down and out you need to make sacrifices and really prioritize your life.

/rant



You took care of Numero Uno.

Good for ya.

The lessons learned are valid. Sucks. Yet, you learned that you could depend on you. You didn't need a government agency or it's bs to get by.

You did what the Coke delivery guy couldn't or wouldn't do. There were choices. You made yours and he, well for all the wrong decisions...made his.
DrafterX Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,557
The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you were born, skin burning and half blind from that delousing **** they throw on you, and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye. Nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time. The only question is, who's it gonna be? It's as good a thing to bet on as any, I guess. I had my money on Andy Dufresne. I remember my first night. Seems like a long time ago.



poor Andy.... Sad
FuzzNJ Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
DrafterX wrote:
The first night's the toughest, no doubt about it. They march you in naked as the day you were born, skin burning and half blind from that delousing **** they throw on you, and when they put you in that cell, when those bars slam home, that's when you know it's for real. Old life blown away in the blink of an eye. Nothing left but all the time in the world to think about it. Most new fish come close to madness the first night. Somebody always breaks down crying. Happens every time. The only question is, who's it gonna be? It's as good a thing to bet on as any, I guess. I had my money on Andy Dufresne. I remember my first night. Seems like a long time ago.



poor Andy.... Sad


Great movie. Should have won the oscar.
MTappert Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
FuzzNJ wrote:
And everyone is a healthy 25 year old with a finance degree. Just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, right?

I am glad that you realize that you were lucky to have grown up the way you did though. Most people won't even acknowledge that much and claim they did everything all on their own.



The point of the story, was that the finance degree was irrelevant. d'oh! $150/month coverage will cover you if something goes terribly wrong. For smaller stuff there are clinics. $150/month is affordable on minimum wage. I know first hand. i know its cheaper for me cause I am young, but I am assuming at his coke job he had coverage, if he went on cobra coverage after he was laid off (or fired) he wouldnt have had any continuance issues.
tweoijfoi Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
How would you have fared if you broke your foot or leg and couldn't work on your feet for a month or two, plus had a $10k bill? You'd still be bankrupt, so your medical insurance would've done you much good.
MTappert Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
the what if game is fun to play.
MTappert Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
what if we had bottomless gold mines, and the worlds largest oil reserves available to us on US soil?

what if people never got sick at all?

what if people lived for ever?

what if everyone took responsibility for their own lives?
tweoijfoi Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
MTappert wrote:
what if we had bottomless gold mines, and the worlds largest oil reserves available to us on US soil?

what if people never got sick at all?

what if people lived for ever?

what if everyone took responsibility for their own lives?


I'm just saying it's great as long as you don't get very ill. Anything which would put you out of work for a couple of weeks and given you a few G's of medical bills would've boned you seriously, so you would've had to declare bankruptcy anyway. Your insurance would not have prevented you from going bankrupt in the case of a serious injury, nor would it pay for any basic procedures under 10k, so what exactly is it providing you?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
IF is the middle word of Life....or so Dennis Hopper said...kinda hopped up on LSD and cough syrup...but still you get the point.

When you have Life you're gonna have "ifs"...it's what you do with them that makes the man. You can either fear them and do nothing or march forward and take them head on.

Sometimes, the "ifs" don't even happen.

Take a chance and throw caution to the wind...then again...if I.....
tweoijfoi Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
DrMaddVibe wrote:
IF is the middle word of Life....or so Dennis Hopper said...kinda hopped up on LSD and cough syrup...but still you get the point.

When you have Life you're gonna have "ifs"...it's what you do with them that makes the man. You can either fear them and do nothing or march forward and take them head on.

Sometimes, the "ifs" don't even happen.

Take a chance and throw caution to the wind...then again...if I.....


A 10k dedictable is the same as no insurance when 10k would force you to declare bankruptcy.

Do you get my point?
MTappert Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:02 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
tweoijfoi wrote:
I'm just saying it's great as long as you don't get very ill. Anything which would put you out of work for a couple of weeks and given you a few G's of medical bills would've boned you seriously, so you would've had to declare bankruptcy anyway. Your insurance would not have prevented you from going bankrupt in the case of a serious injury, nor would it pay for any basic procedures under 10k, so what exactly is it providing you?



I suppose, IF I was actually put out of work I guess I might have filed for the unemployment I was "entitled" to, and chances are that injury, like you described broken foot or leg, would have probably been work related so it would have been a Labor and Industries claim.

The insurance would limit my damages to $10K. I dont know many people that file bankruptcy for $10K.

I could always get a job at a wal-mart greeter sitting in my wheel chair at minimum wage to pay the minimums on the credit card that $10K would be sitting or minimum payments to the hospital that fixed me up.
MTappert Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:03 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
do you get my point?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
tweoijfoi wrote:
A 10k dedictable is the same as no insurance when 10k would force you to declare bankruptcy.

Do you get my point?



I see where you're going but...there's short term disability...long term disability...and the whole comfort level associated with knowing that you HAVE health insurance to fall back on IF you need it.

Don't get me started on healthcare...there are problems upon problems but ObamaCare? That's exacerbates the problems that were there and radiates them with a level of toxicity that Japan can comprehend right now.
MTappert Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:09 PM EST
Joined: 04-27-2011
Posts: 1,085
thanks maddvibe.


the rest of you guys are right. I shouldnt have set back stops to limit my potential damages.

I should have shrugged off paying for insurance, spent all my extra money, ran up credit card debt, financed a home I couldnt afford, find a job I could get laid off from, file for unemployment, stop paying taxes and then Obama would make everything ok.
tweoijfoi Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
MT, you take me to think that you should've had insurance, but that's not the case. Kudos to you for having it. Nor am I defending ObamaCare. Frankly it was done all wrong.

I'm just pointing out how flawed our healthcare system was and still is.

ObamaCare is not the solution, and it hurts the cause of real solutions to help fix our healthcare system.

But please don't act like our current or previous systems are any good. We spend twice what other industrialized nations do on health care, and have lower life expectancies and higher infant mortality. Pretty sad. But also, don't blame all the problems on ObamaCare. It's not good, and something needs to be done, but the system was broken even before it existed.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
tweoijfoi wrote:
MT, you take me to think that you should've had insurance, but that's not the case. Kudos to you for having it. Nor am I defending ObamaCare. Frankly it was done all wrong.

I'm just pointing out how flawed our healthcare system was and still is.

ObamaCare is not the solution, and it hurts the cause of real solutions to help fix our healthcare system.

But please don't act like our current or previous systems are any good. We spend twice what other industrialized nations do on health care, and have lower life expectancies and higher infant mortality. Pretty sad. But also, don't blame all the problems on ObamaCare. It's not good, and something needs to be done, but the system was broken even before it existed.



When you want legislation to change something like Healthcare...you don't cut deals with Big Pharma and lawyers. It also helps to have actually READ the damn thing as well as written it too.

I cannot WAIT for the Supreme Court to smack this down as un-Constitutional...and they will.
tweoijfoi Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
Yeah that fact that it was 1,000+ pages of lawyerese and got passed in so insanely short a time was the first tip-off.

I would love to see a healthcare system like Canada's be put in. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've got. I'd like to see some provisions which would allow for people to have private insurance to supplement or improve whatever is provided.
wheelrite Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:44 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
tweoijfoi wrote:
Yeah that fact that it was 1,000+ pages of lawyerese and got passed in so insanely short a time was the first tip-off.

I would love to see a healthcare system like Canada's be put in. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've got. I'd like to see some provisions which would allow for people to have private insurance to supplement or improve whatever is provided.


Canadians would beg to differ...
tailgater Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:52 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
tweoijfoi wrote:
MT, you take me to think that you should've had insurance, but that's not the case. Kudos to you for having it. Nor am I defending ObamaCare. Frankly it was done all wrong.

I'm just pointing out how flawed our healthcare system was and still is.

ObamaCare is not the solution, and it hurts the cause of real solutions to help fix our healthcare system.

But please don't act like our current or previous systems are any good. We spend twice what other industrialized nations do on health care, and have lower life expectancies and higher infant mortality. Pretty sad. But also, don't blame all the problems on ObamaCare. It's not good, and something needs to be done, but the system was broken even before it existed.



I wanted so badly to take what you're saying seriously.
But then you started on the whole "we pay twice as much but have lower infant mortality and life expectancy".
This is pure hogwash because the data is flawed, and if you go around perpetuating the inadvertant lie then you're as much a liar as the statisticians who invented this horse crap.

The US defines infant mortality differently then many other countries. Many don't count a lost fetus as a death, so if the woman loses the kid at 7 months it won't be an "infant mortality". Hell, some don't even count still births. They say the kid has to breath in order to be counted as death.

And life expectancy?
I'll let you do the homework. Look up the life expectancy of the Japanese. Then look up that of Japanese Americans.
Come back when you understand the truth, rather than the deceipt.

Flawed healthcare? You betcha.
tweoijfoi Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
wheelrite wrote:
Canadians would beg to differ...


Yeah? Did Fox tell you?
tweoijfoi Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
tailgater wrote:
I wanted so badly to take what you're saying seriously.
But then you started on the whole "we pay twice as much but have lower infant mortality and life expectancy".
This is pure hogwash because the data is flawed, and if you go around perpetuating the inadvertant lie then you're as much a liar as the statisticians who invented this horse crap.

The US defines infant mortality differently then many other countries. Many don't count a lost fetus as a death, so if the woman loses the kid at 7 months it won't be an "infant mortality". Hell, some don't even count still births. They say the kid has to breath in order to be counted as death.

And life expectancy?
I'll let you do the homework. Look up the life expectancy of the Japanese. Then look up that of Japanese Americans.
Come back when you understand the truth, rather than the deceipt.

Flawed healthcare? You betcha.


Is the paying twice as much false as well?
ZRX1200 Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
Tailgater +1
tweoijfoi Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 3:01 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
ZRX1200 wrote:
Tailgater +1


We're all after the truth. I'll admit I'm wrong when I am.

Thanks for admitting our system is flawed though. Do you have any opinions on other countries healthcare systems which you think would be a good solution?
FuzzNJ Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 3:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Canadians would beg to differ...


Over 80% of Canadians are happy with their health care system.

Over 70% of Americans are not.

Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 3:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
Every Canadian I know has mixed feeling. Preventative care is good everything else is hated.

I don't look to other countries for inspiration and suggest all disgruntled commies move to commie countries. There is more right than wrong with our system and having real competition with portability of insurance no state mandates and Tort reform would be a good start.
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,557
80% of the Canadians is what..?? like 100,000 people..??? Huh
tweoijfoi Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 09-22-2010
Posts: 395
ZRX1200 wrote:
Every Canadian I know has mixed feeling. Preventative care is good everything else is hated.

I don't look to other countries for inspiration and suggest all disgruntled commies move to commie countries. There is more right than wrong with our system and having real competition with portability of insurance no state mandates and Tort reform would be a good start.


"Hate" is a strong word. I honestly haven't heard of any who downright hate their coverage,
nor have I heard of anyone who needed something done to live, and didn't get it.

I wonder how many people in Canada:
A) Don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it
B) Go bankrupt because of a procedure they need to have done

I honestly don't know, but I haven't heard of any anecdotally. Have you?
ZRX1200 Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
I'll start an iso thread for a greyhound ticket for ya.

A) bullshït. You are really clueless as to how much care is given for free. ER room......plenty of choices

B) I wonder how many could have avoided things by taking personal responsibility. Name the procedure please.........

I see people everyday who defy physician orders and live "their lifestyle" to their own detriment that bemoan costs.

My good friend is Canadian. His grandma came here for a hip replacement cuz she didn't want to (nor felt like she could) wait 9 months.

Another friends mothr died of brain cancer @49. He talked to his relatives in Canada and the experimental meds she took here would not have been available there.
FuzzNJ Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
I'll start an iso thread for a greyhound ticket for ya.

A) bullshït. You are really clueless as to how much care is given for free. ER room......plenty of choices

B) I wonder how many could have avoided things by taking personal responsibility. Name the procedure please.........

I see people everyday who defy physician orders and live "their lifestyle" to their own detriment that bemoan costs.

My good friend is Canadian. His grandma came here for a hip replacement cuz she didn't want to (nor felt like she could) wait 9 months.

Another friends mothr died of brain cancer @49. He talked to his relatives in Canada and the experimental meds she took here would not have been available there.


Emergency Room care is free? Neat! I won't pay the bill I'm sure to incure from bringing my wife there 2 nights ago. I'll tell them you said it was ok.

B) like smoking cigars or something?
FuzzNJ Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
My good friend is Canadian. His grandma came here for a hip replacement cuz she didn't want to (nor felt like she could) wait 9 months.

Another friends mothr died of brain cancer @49. He talked to his relatives in Canada and the experimental meds she took here would not have been available there.


I wonder how someone here who had no insurance or the cash could get a hip replacement at all.

I'm sure there are some cases where it could be the opposite. The FDA is very slow to approve new medicine.
ZRX1200 Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
Er was a second sentence if I knew you were reading I would have been more specific. ER is another option. Lots of care is given out by hospitals and doctors for free for indigent care. Thats not anecdotal either.

I hope your wife is feeling better Fuzzy.
FuzzNJ Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:43 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
Er was a second sentence if I knew you were reading I would have been more specific. ER is another option. Lots of care is given out by hospitals and doctors for free for indigent care. Thats not anecdotal either.

I hope your wife is feeling better Fuzzy.


The sentence read "A) bullshït. You are really clueless as to how much care is given for free. ER room......plenty of choices"

Second sentence or not, it was part of the same bullet point and did say what I took it to say, whether you meant it or not.

Free care given by hospitals and doctors in no way covers the need we have, not even a blip on the radar. Look at when free clinics are given, thousands show up, usually too many for the clinic to handle. We have a crisis in this country and it's a f*cking shame. We should all be embarassed.

Off to dinner, getting the duck and Tom Yum. I got my health insurance, I guess I shouldn't give a **** about anyone else, huh?
wheelrite Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 4:44 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
tweoijfoi wrote:
Yeah? Did Fox tell you?


Um no moron,,,
US News and World Report,hardly a Conservative publication...


Peter Roff
Statistics Show Canadian Healthcare Is Inferior to American System
By Peter Roff
USNEWS


Those who would have the U.S. government play a larger role in healthcare like to point to Canada as an example the United States should follow. Their argument, in sum, is that healthcare there is of high quality, is readily available and, because of generous government subsidies, much cheaper. In fact, most Americans know little about the inner workings of the Canadian system other than the anecdotal evidence provided by both sides of the debate. A look at the hard data, however, suggests there is more support for the arguments put forward by the critics of the Canadian system than by those who see it as a model for the United States.

Working off data compiled by The Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, the GOP staff of the congressional Joint Economic Committee assembled this chart to show in visual terms how long Canadian patients have to wait to receive essential healthcare services:



For example, the median clinically reasonable wait time before receiving neurosurgery is 5.8 weeks. In Canada in 2008 it was 31.7 weeks. For gynecology it's 5.6 weeks v. 16.1 weeks. And for internal medicine is 3.3 weeks v. 12.5 weeks. Fraser's hospital waiting list survey measures median waiting times to document the extent to which waiting times for visits to specialists and for diagnostic and surgical procedures are used to control health care expenditures. The report measures the wait times between seeing a general practitioner and a specialist, the time between seeing the specialist and receiving treatment, and the total wait time.

The good news, if there is any, is that Fraser's 2008 study (and they have been collecting data on wait times for 18 years) indicates the median wait time for those patients seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment is down by a full week—from 18.3 weeks in 2007 to 17.3 weeks in 2008. Despite the improvement, however, the Fraser data shows many Canadians are still waiting almost four months (121 days) or more before they can receive treatment



wheel,,
ZRX1200 Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 5:42 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
No country does more for charity than the US Fuzzy......we don't need 50-80 taxes on top of that.
HockeyDad Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:10 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,151
You people want to be like Canadians?
ZRX1200 Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
Fuzzy and twiifofjoy want to be french-canadians....


I don't even like their lame azz round bacon.
FuzzNJ Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
No country does more for charity than the US Fuzzy......we don't need 50-80 taxes on top of that.


In actual money and counting foreign aid, yeah.

In percentage of GDP and per capita, we're nowhere close, not by a longshot.
FuzzNJ Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
Um no moron,,,
US News and World Report,hardly a Conservative publication...


Peter Roff
Statistics Show Canadian Healthcare Is Inferior to American System
By Peter Roff
USNEWS


Those who would have the U.S. government play a larger role in healthcare like to point to Canada as an example the United States should follow. Their argument, in sum, is that healthcare there is of high quality, is readily available and, because of generous government subsidies, much cheaper. In fact, most Americans know little about the inner workings of the Canadian system other than the anecdotal evidence provided by both sides of the debate. A look at the hard data, however, suggests there is more support for the arguments put forward by the critics of the Canadian system than by those who see it as a model for the United States.

Working off data compiled by The Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank, the GOP staff of the congressional Joint Economic Committee assembled this chart to show in visual terms how long Canadian patients have to wait to receive essential healthcare services:



For example, the median clinically reasonable wait time before receiving neurosurgery is 5.8 weeks. In Canada in 2008 it was 31.7 weeks. For gynecology it's 5.6 weeks v. 16.1 weeks. And for internal medicine is 3.3 weeks v. 12.5 weeks. Fraser's hospital waiting list survey measures median waiting times to document the extent to which waiting times for visits to specialists and for diagnostic and surgical procedures are used to control health care expenditures. The report measures the wait times between seeing a general practitioner and a specialist, the time between seeing the specialist and receiving treatment, and the total wait time.

The good news, if there is any, is that Fraser's 2008 study (and they have been collecting data on wait times for 18 years) indicates the median wait time for those patients seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment is down by a full week—from 18.3 weeks in 2007 to 17.3 weeks in 2008. Despite the improvement, however, the Fraser data shows many Canadians are still waiting almost four months (121 days) or more before they can receive treatment



wheel,,



What does a report from a right wing/libertarian think tank that gets its funding from tobacco and oil companies have to do with whether or not Canadians are happy and/or satisfied with their health care or would rather have what they do than what we do?

And you are calling someone else a moron?
FuzzNJ Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
Fuzzy and twiifofjoy want to be french-canadians....


I can't speak for him, but sure don't. I want to remain an American, one where everyone has access to affordable health care, regardless of their condition or societal status. It's the moral thing to do, and one day everyone will see it that way.
wheelrite Offline
#91 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
FuzzNJ wrote:


And you are calling someone else a moron?


There are numerous Morons here,,,

feeling guilty !!!ram27bat
FuzzNJ Offline
#92 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
wheelrite wrote:
There are numerous Morons here,,,

feeling guilty !!!ram27bat


Guilty? No, I know I'm just barely smart enough to realize I'm stupid. Most of you who are stupid are too dumb to realize it.

At least if you are going to rebut something come back with something that actually refers to the topic, not just tangentially.
ZRX1200 Offline
#93 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:39 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
Everyone has reasonable access.
Many choose to weight the cart instead of pull it.
HockeyDad Offline
#94 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,151
FuzzNJ,

How much are you personally willing to pay so that everyone has access to affordable healthcare?
FuzzNJ Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
HockeyDad wrote:
FuzzNJ,

How much are you personally willing to pay so that everyone has access to affordable healthcare?


How much are you personally will to pay so that everyone is protected by our military?

Dumb question? Because it's a national need and priority?

Exactly.

So now we're just trying to figure out the best way to do it.
FuzzNJ Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
Everyone has reasonable access.
Many choose to weight the cart instead of pull it.


Bullsh*t, up to my chest kind of bullsh*t.
ZRX1200 Offline
#97 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:47 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,622
What's the next national need or priority to socialize??

I have a middle finger for your frog boiling.
HockeyDad Offline
#98 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,151
Nice dodge. Avoid putting a real dollar amount on a noble goal. Noble goals cost money. The issue is not "access". The issue is "affordable" and everyone has a different definition from free on up.
FuzzNJ Offline
#99 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 8:06 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
HockeyDad wrote:
Nice dodge. Avoid putting a real dollar amount on a noble goal. Noble goals cost money. The issue is not "access". The issue is "affordable" and everyone has a different definition from free on up.


I had no doubt you would define it as a dodge. We're paying the price now for not having affordable access for all. And access is the issue, if you can't afford it, you won't be accessing it unless it's a life or death situation. Then that cost is shared by those who do have insurance through outrageous premiums and hospital bills. The larger the pool, the less the overhead, the more preventive care, the better we are as a country and the cheaper the cost is per capita, for everyone including conservatives who are afraid they are giving everyone a free ride.
FuzzNJ Offline
#100 Posted: Thu, Jun 23 2011, 8:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
ZRX1200 wrote:
What's the next national need or priority to socialize??

I have a middle finger for your frog boiling.


The interstate highway system, social security, medicare, medicaid, medicare prescription drug coverage, post office, unempolyment insurance, public housing section 8, food stamps, school lunch and breakfast programs, department of agriculture and farm subsidies, FDA, schools, . . . . . wait, we already have those.

Your middle finger must need some medical attention. I sure hope you have insurance.
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