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Occupy Wall Street
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HockeyDad Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
So has anybody here actually joined the main protest or any of the protests in other cities? Has the "raising awareness" crowd joined the "do something about it" crowd?
jetblasted Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
I know some folks who went down to the Occupy Atlanta protest. The movement has dwindles in numbers over the week. Mostly unwashed 21 y/o's ... The big controversy about Occupy Atlanta, is that wouldn't let Congressman John Lewis speak when he showed up. Mostly, they said it was because they gave him an alotted time, and it didn't fit his schedule.

They have no direction like the other protesters. Talking about protesting BoA, and CNN, but the mayor has given them to the weekend to pull up tents at the park and get out.
dpnewell Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
I was going to go across the river and join the Occupy Philly group, but then I took a shower, and was disqualified.
FuzzNJ Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 7:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
I have not gone. I had intended to a couple Saturdays ago when I was free for the day but I wasn't well enough to make a day of it. Wish I was young and healthy enough to be a street fighting man.

;)
FuzzNJ Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 7:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
And I shower daily.
rfenst Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
U.S. history has shown populism to lead to political change at times. Just like one should not underestimate the tea party, one should not underestimate populist movements.
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Oct 13 2011, 10:30 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
rfenst wrote:
U.S. history has shown populism to lead to political change at times. Just like one should not underestimate the tea party, one should not underestimate populist movements.


This is nothing like the tea party.
A "movement" without a message is just a bunch of hippies whining about their sorry lot in life.
It's more akin to woodstock then to a genuine political rally like the tea party.

The closest they've come to a slogan is "We want change. And stuff."
Just don't confuse them by asking what kind of change.
HockeyDad Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 2:51 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:
U.S. history has shown populism to lead to political change at times. Just like one should not underestimate the tea party, one should not underestimate populist movements.



One of the things I'm curious about is what change is being requested. What are the demands?
dpnewell Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 6:23 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
HockeyDad wrote:
One of the things I'm curious about is what change is being requested. What are the demands?


Here in Philly, a group being interviewed claimed that one of their demands was a $20 an hour minimum wage. Let's see. Triple the minimum wage, followed by 300 to 400% instant inflation, and everyone is worse off then they where to begin with. Idiots!
Mathen Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 6:41 AM EST
Joined: 05-27-2011
Posts: 2,338
Good gravy, we're about one step away from bread and circuses.

Rome is burning my friends, get your fiddles.
Stinkdyr Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 7:05 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
Our Greece moment has begun.


Herfing
FuzzNJ Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 7:12 AM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
THIS DOCUMENT WAS ACCEPTED BY THE NYC GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON SEPTEMBER 29, 2011

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
rfenst Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 7:38 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
tailgater wrote:
This is nothing like the tea party.
A "movement" without a message is just a bunch of hippies whining about their sorry lot in life.
It's more akin to woodstock then to a genuine political rally like the tea party.

The closest they've come to a slogan is "We want change. And stuff."
Just don't confuse them by asking what kind of change.




Interesting that you brought up Woodstock. It is a good example to consider. As we look back on it historically and culturally, it was a then misunderstood, significant socio-economic event that is the hallmark of an era of turbulent change. If you had asked the young adults who attended Woodstock what they really wanted, you would have heard things like: "love", peace", "the end of war", "integration", "equal rights" and other now seemingly amorphous terms. "We want change. And stuff" should not be underestimated right now. Likewise, criticizing a movement that doesn't have a leader or has a less than ideal organizational basis could cause one to miss upcoming or ongoing change. As I think some more about this (not the particular messages), I think that the longer we have job problems and perceptions of impending economic doom (which may even be accurate), the more likely populist movements could grow and strengthen towards significance. So, I just don't think it is wise to dismiss a movement so early when such movements on the right or left of the spectrum have brought about so much change, for better or worse, throughout history.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 7:40 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Of course Snickerdoodles omitted this from his post!...

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.


So when you trespass on private property, create havoc by banging plastic pails all day and all night, refuse to use sanitary measures (toilets, showers and sanitation) and don't really have any demands then this protest isn't a protest. It's just a gathering of filthy idiots on the dole.

http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/10/10/ows-defecates-on-cop-cars-vandalizes-property-pelosi-says-bless-them/

They remind me of a typical Kindergarden classroom with their "Simon Says" zombieesque trance speak...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3QZlp3eGMNI

Here's what happened as Jet explained in Atlanta.

Useful idiots.


These fools allow 10 celebrities with a combined wealth of 1.255 billion to "be one" of them. Real 99%'ers there. How do they make ends meet? Anyone see Kanye West bleeting out how George Bush hates black people? Hell, if anyone HATES black people the case could be made for the Kenyan King! Unemployment for Blacks has hit epic all time highs, but when you're wearing bling bling and sporting a wardrobe that costs a grand you want to keep it real with your peeps.

One thing that really rallied the hand wavers and parrot people was the ability to have sex with animals, so they do have one demand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My_cNzQGS8E&feature=player_embedded


When you have real visionaries like this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQVhTU_grrc&feature=related

Well, what he's like really trying to you know say to, basically so everyone can understand is that your power is awesome and that like when its on it's like a flashlight for the world to see in all it's splendor and if more people concentrated on doing just that yeah just that then we can teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.

(That has to be one of the longest run on's evah!)

So, in conclusion what can an educated person take away from this?

In order to make effective change you have to know exactly what it is you want to change. Your message MUST be clear.

Fill out the proper paperwork for permits.

Comply with all Federal, State and local laws.

Rent port-a-pottys...a stage and sound system so you can be seen and heard.

Leave the meeting place in a better state than when you found it.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 7:41 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
rfenst wrote:
Interesting that you brought up Woodstock. It is a good example to consider. As we look back on it historically and culturally, it was a then misunderstood, significant socio-economic event that is the hallmark of an era of turbulent change. If you had asked the young adults who attended Woodstock what they really wanted, you would have heard things like: "love", peace", "the end of war", "integration", "equal rights" and other now seemingly amorphous terms. "We want change. And stuff" should not be underestimated right now. Likewise, criticizing a movement that doesn't have a leader or has a less than ideal organizational basis could cause one to miss upcoming or ongoing change. As I think some more about this (not the particular messages), I think that the longer we have job problems and perceptions of impending economic doom (which may even be accurate), the more likely populist movements could grow and strengthen towards significance. So, I just don't think it is wise to dismiss a movement so early when such movements on the right or left of the spectrum have brought about so much change, for better or worse, throughout history.




Ummm, Woodstock was a concert event. Just sayin'.
tailgater Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:02 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
rfenst wrote:
Interesting that you brought up Woodstock. It is a good example to consider. As we look back on it historically and culturally, it was a then misunderstood, significant socio-economic event that is the hallmark of an era of turbulent change. If you had asked the young adults who attended Woodstock what they really wanted, you would have heard things like: "love", peace", "the end of war", "integration", "equal rights" and other now seemingly amorphous terms. "We want change. And stuff" should not be underestimated right now. Likewise, criticizing a movement that doesn't have a leader or has a less than ideal organizational basis could cause one to miss upcoming or ongoing change. As I think some more about this (not the particular messages), I think that the longer we have job problems and perceptions of impending economic doom (which may even be accurate), the more likely populist movements could grow and strengthen towards significance. So, I just don't think it is wise to dismiss a movement so early when such movements on the right or left of the spectrum have brought about so much change, for better or worse, throughout history.



Woodstock is a good example because the half million or so people who attended did so by breaking in. They then went on to destroy the grounds and demand that the authorities provide food and water. Gratis, of course.

Then the generation of Love and Peace went on to become the wall street CEO's that today's occupiers are b*tching about.

Is this really what we want? A generation who gets their way by complaining rather than doing?
A segment of our population who need safety in numbers rather then letting their voice be heard by taking their business elsewhere, or by voting in the proper candidates, or by making something of themselves and maybe build a corporation that embodies their utipian socialistic goals?

In a capitalistic market, if these people truly represent a populist movement, won't corporations take advantage of this by targeting their business?
Shouldn't these people all own Fords rather than one of the foreign cars or a domestic government motors vehicle?
Couldn't they take their banking to the small local banks?
Buy their goods from small local shops?

And most importantly, shouldn't these protests be outside the various colleges and universities instead of on wall street?
Tuitions have gone up must faster than inflation. Hell, tuition has risen faster than even healthcare costs.
Half of the young adults who are protesting are complaining about tuition bills. $120k in debt and no job. But they blame the corproations for not having the work load to hire, rather than blaming the colleges for over-charging for a useless document.

This is class warfare. And it started not with the recession, but rather with the president, who has endorsed this rubbish from the start.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
tailgater wrote:
This is class warfare. And it started not with the recession, but rather with the president, who has endorsed this rubbish from the start.



The Kenyan King's puppetmaster is funding this. THIS is his re-election campaign. THIS (the 99%'ers) is what his base has been melted down to.

Everyone KNOWS he's failed. When you don't define "Hope and Change" with real parameters and leave it like a blank canvas for anyone to paint what they want on it or project whatever image...it looks just like the signs at the OWS trashfest.

See them for what they are. The true followers of his message.
Brewha Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
This is class warfare. And it started not with the recession, but rather with the president, who has endorsed this rubbish from the start.


The class warfare started long ago. It was there when poor fought back with child labor laws. It was there when collective bargaining was attacked. It was there went people we told to eat cake.

Bully for them – fight the rich baztards and their corporate machines, I say.
DrafterX Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I didn't realize I could get a job by standing in the street and yelling at the man..... Think
Brewha Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:21 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
I didn't realize I could get a job by standing in the street and yelling at the man..... Think


Well . . . . .
I don’t think it pays too well.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:22 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
DrafterX wrote:
I didn't realize I could get a job by standing in the street and yelling at the man..... Think






YES YOU CAN!




http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/gov/2618821815.html
DrMaddVibe Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Brewha wrote:
Well . . . . .
I don’t think it pays too well.



More than just laying around the living room doing chores, eh?

Compensation: $350-$650 A Week Depending On Responsibility & Length Of Time On Staff
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.



Why, it'll have all the snickerdoodles going wild for that cash! Imagine all that dumping back into the American Economy...why Slow Joe would call it a 3 letter word!

J-O-B-S!


Hope and Change*























































*Hope and Change only applies to children that still believe in fairy tales, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Unicorns, pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow and protestors with no real message or cause.
FuzzNJ Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:28 AM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Of course Snickerdoodles omitted this from his post!...

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.



It's not a 'list of demands', it's a statement of facts that they all agree must be addressed. It is official, was voted on by those in NYC and released. There are message boards where others can post their ideas as well as suggestions as well as being able to make suggestions on site. That's where the $20 minimum wage, free college education ideas came from, plus many more.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info


DrMaddVibe wrote:

These fools allow 10 celebrities with a combined wealth of 1.255 billion to "be one" of them. Real 99%'ers there. How do they make ends meet? Anyone see Kanye West bleeting out how George Bush hates black people? Hell, if anyone HATES black people the case could be made for the Kenyan King! Unemployment for Blacks has hit epic all time highs, but when you're wearing bling bling and sporting a wardrobe that costs a grand you want to keep it real with your peeps.



I'm doing ok financially, yet I still agree with the protests for a number of reasons not the least of which is the system has become too corrupt and favors those at the top in a way that is detrimental to long term economic survival. We can't be strong without a strong middle class.

The President's 'peeps' are the American people. Black unemployment is too high and higher than other 'races'. Probably a better way to look at the situation is that the unemployment rate for college grads is around 5-6%, HS grads 9% and no HS diploma in the teens somewhere. (going from memory here) So it's back to the basics also, good education requiring tax dollars, and lots of other things not worth going into atm.


DrMaddVibe wrote:

In order to make effective change you have to know exactly what it is you want to change. Your message MUST be clear.

Fill out the proper paperwork for permits.

Comply with all Federal, State and local laws.

Rent port-a-pottys...a stage and sound system so you can be seen and heard.

Leave the meeting place in a better state than when you found it.


Yes, I've seen the pictures of tea party rallies where there was a portable toilet for each participant. C-Span covered this one 'rally' in DC with like 20 teabaggers and they had a stage and 20 toilets with guys guarding them. National coverage for this, all day.

Thousands of people in NYC, thousands more all over the country and now the world joining in these protests and you want to concentrate on whether or not they have body odor? Let's get them on C-Span first.
DrafterX Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:29 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
DrMaddVibe wrote:




*Hope and Change only applies to children that still believe in fairy tales, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Unicorns, pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow and protestors with no real message or cause.



what about the Keebler elves..?? Huh
DrMaddVibe Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:29 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
FuzzNJ wrote:
Let's get them on C-Span first.



Yes, let's. Just like the Kenyan King demanded!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:30 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
DrafterX wrote:
what about the Keebler elves..?? Huh


They're Corporate Whores!
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
DrMaddVibe wrote:
They're Corporate Whores!


OhMyGod
DrMaddVibe Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:33 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
FuzzNJ wrote:
It's not a 'list of demands', it's a statement of facts that they all agree must be addressed. It is official, was voted on by those in NYC and released. There are message boards where others can post their ideas as well as suggestions as well as being able to make suggestions on site. That's where the $20 minimum wage, free college education ideas came from, plus many more.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info



Sorry you're following FB for up to the minute details...you could be better served by going to THE source.

http://occupywallst.org/

BANG BANG!
FuzzNJ Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
I'm enjoying the paranoia and descriptions of the protesters and their motives on display here. I read it, listen to it and watch it elsewhere also. It's so over the top and demonstrably false that it will only hurt your cause. If you would just discuss the issues you disagree with instead of trying to demonize these people, who have many of the same complaints you do, the 'right' would appear more credible.
Brewha Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:38 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Why do I find the image of an elf whore disturbing?
Think
DrMaddVibe Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
FuzzNJ wrote:
I'm enjoying the paranoia and descriptions of the protesters and their motives on display here. I read it, listen to it and watch it elsewhere also. It's so over the top and demonstrably false that it will only hurt your cause. If you would just discuss the issues you disagree with instead of trying to demonize these people, who have many of the same complaints you do, the 'right' would appear more credible.



Really?

It's all there out in the open on YouTube...images from Yahoo or Google.

Nothing is being said here that's different than the media is covering it.

This isn't "my cause". The OWS'ers don't have a cause. They're law breaking fools that are paid to be there to show the world what astroturf is.

Proof will be in the election cycle.

I seriously doubt the majority of the OWS'ers can wake up in time to cast a ballot or are even registered to vote.

There's no demonization going on. When you crap or paint on a cop car...you're going to get called out for it. When you and a mass of people play jazz hands and want sex with animals...you're going to be called out on it. When you want to sleep on the pavement and throw trash all over the place while your buddies beat on plastic pails 24/7...you're going to get called out on it.

Commit those acts in any other place besides under the nose of "America's Mayor" and you'd be arrested faster than you can blink.

BANG BANG!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 8:43 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Brewha wrote:
Why do I find the image of an elf whore disturbing?
Think



Caus you open up the cookie and eat the frosting first...doncha?Drool whip Frying pan
FuzzNJ Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 9:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-28-2006
Posts: 13,000
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Really?

It's all there out in the open on YouTube...images from Yahoo or Google.

Nothing is being said here that's different than the media is covering it.

This isn't "my cause". The OWS'ers don't have a cause. They're law breaking fools that are paid to be there to show the world what astroturf is.

Proof will be in the election cycle.

I seriously doubt the majority of the OWS'ers can wake up in time to cast a ballot or are even registered to vote.

There's no demonization going on. When you crap or paint on a cop car...you're going to get called out for it. When you and a mass of people play jazz hands and want sex with animals...you're going to be called out on it. When you want to sleep on the pavement and throw trash all over the place while your buddies beat on plastic pails 24/7...you're going to get called out on it.

Commit those acts in any other place besides under the nose of "America's Mayor" and you'd be arrested faster than you can blink.

BANG BANG!


Lech Walesa supports them and is coming to NYC to visit the protesters. He's a real dirtbag.

At least two Nobel prize economists have spoken to the NYC group. May have been 3, can't remember if Krugman was there.

So many more if you care to look, but you don't. You would prefer to pick out the crazies among us. Oh, that teabagger guy who killed 8 people, he's like all the rest right?

Clip to help you understand a bit better, I promise no hippies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv1MVF7fqoM&feature=share

Short film showing some interesting contrasts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYPFLw9S280
DrMaddVibe Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 9:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
FuzzNJ wrote:
Lech Walesa supports them and is coming to NYC to visit the protesters. He's a real dirtbag.

At least two Nobel prize economists have spoken to the NYC group. May have been 3, can't remember if Krugman was there.

So many more if you care to look, but you don't. You would prefer to pick out the crazies among us. Oh, that teabagger guy who killed 8 people, he's like all the rest right?

Clip to help you understand a bit better, I promise no hippies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv1MVF7fqoM&feature=share

Short film showing some interesting contrasts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYPFLw9S280




BLAH BLAH BLAH!

"economists"...the ones that got us in this mess? Oh..ok.


Git off yer couch and join your crowd. Ask for permission though. You know how the MS. is about shirking chores and skipping meals.
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 10:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
tailgater wrote:
Woodstock is a good example because the half million or so people who attended did so by breaking in. They then went on to destroy the grounds and demand that the authorities provide food and water. Gratis, of course.

Then the generation of Love and Peace went on to become the wall street CEO's that today's occupiers are b*tching about.

Is this really what we want? A generation who gets their way by complaining rather than doing?
A segment of our population who need safety in numbers rather then letting their voice be heard by taking their business elsewhere, or by voting in the proper candidates, or by making something of themselves and maybe build a corporation that embodies their utipian socialistic goals?

In a capitalistic market, if these people truly represent a populist movement, won't corporations take advantage of this by targeting their business?
Shouldn't these people all own Fords rather than one of the foreign cars or a domestic government motors vehicle?
Couldn't they take their banking to the small local banks?
Buy their goods from small local shops?

And most importantly, shouldn't these protests be outside the various colleges and universities instead of on wall street?
Tuitions have gone up must faster than inflation. Hell, tuition has risen faster than even healthcare costs.
Half of the young adults who are protesting are complaining about tuition bills. $120k in debt and no job. But they blame the corproations for not having the work load to hire, rather than blaming the colleges for over-charging for a useless document.

This is class warfare. And it started not with the recession, but rather with the president, who has endorsed this rubbish from the start.



I have made no substantive points other than to try to put this into and encourage some discussion in a historica/political science context. Populism, which doesn't always meen the middle class or lower class,is always present to varying degrees and in diferent forms . Far more so right now, in my opinion, because of thisterrible recession. It would be unwise for anyone to underestimate the potential of something like this to snowball ino something much larger and far more politically important. We are indeed going through substantive changes right now and will into the future. If enough of these people start to get their act together, then they could represent an important voting block- like the Tea Party has over the last three or four or greater election cycles. And, yes, this presently is a version of true class warfare.
MikeyRavioli Offline
#36 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-10-2005
Posts: 2,105
The problem with no central leadership and no unified message is that no one has any idea what the hell these people want. The more outlandish the character the more likely they are to get a camera stuck in their face and have their quote appear in the news.

There are people there who worked hard, got good grades, and followed the Road to the American Dream. They got into a good University, took massive student loans, worked their butts off the graduate at the top of their class, and were prepared to enter the workforce. Sadly, there aren’t enough good jobs for them to compete for. I am not in favor of guaranteeing anyone a job but when the best and the brightest and the hardest working can't find work something is wrong. So all these young people with great skills are emerging from college with massive debt and are lucky to get jobs slinging espresso at Starbucks. They did everything right and the "system" let them down. Let’s not even mention veterans who put themselves in harm’s way to fight for our rights and freedom to come back and find no jobs and face homelessness.

The banks did everything wrong. They created the housing bubble that started the economic freefall and when faced with eating all those toxic loans - the government came in and bailed them out. Now they are making record profits and still not helping the recovery by making loans or hiring people. Its no wonder that the hard working guy who did everything right and is living in his parents basement with no health insurance stocking shelves at Target with a BFA is angry. And honestly I agree.

The problem is there is not enough of them getting camera time or newspaper quotes. Living on Long Island and visiting the city often I get so see a lot of the media coverage. I have seen stories on a lady who has a pet squirrel that sits on her shoulder whose only demand is abolishment of the Federal Reserve. I saw an article on a guy who was only there for the free pizza and the easy access to weed. There was a guy who wanted all debt forgiven. There was a guy who wanted all education at all levels including the finest universities to be free and open to anyone. they marched in front of JPMorgan Chase CEO's house. Do you know how many people in NYC, the US, and the world JPM employs? Or Murdoch? While they side with the likes of Kanye and Russel Simmons who make millions and do nothing but buy jewelry? (not really but nowhere near what JPM or Newscorp does).

Not to mention they are occupying private property and creating an extremely unsanitary condition without even having access to bathrooms or showers. Its honestly disgusting there.

Any valid political message that some one that isn't on the lunatic fringe might listen to or get behind is being drowned out by the crazies there or becomes irrelevant when the person listening steps in a pile of human poo-poo.
ZRX1200 Offline
#37 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
$20 minimum wage? Free college?

F them.

Fuzzy we don't spend enough on education? BS. We have alot of lousy teachers and parents. Teachers want outrageous bennies and too many parents want unprotected sex or extra welfare money.


I support the stated desire by the non-paid non-dirt bags among them that want true bank reform and ending the fed. And resetting GS act, we have no business backing the banks gambling.
dstieger Offline
#38 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 10:57 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
FuzzNJ wrote:
It's not a 'list of demands', it's a statement of facts


Fuzz, I rarely agree with you, but I do think that this forum needs you, if for no other reason than because nobody else around here can elevate DMV's outrage like you can.

Your credibility has never been all too high with me, but most of the time I'm willing to read what you have to say. However, when you call the above manifesto jibberish a 'statement of facts', even I have to throw you the BS flag. Aside from the fact that corporations donate to politicians and political causes, I don't think there are any facts in that goofy document. Sounds more like someone trying to recite some Karl Marx papers from memory without considering whether any of it has any merit today.

rfenst may be correct that we shouldn't underestimate the potential for these mobs to have some lasting impact, but count me as another that would like to hear just one coherent statement about what they think they want.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#39 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
dstieger wrote:
Fuzz, I rarely agree with you, but I do think that this forum needs you, if for no other reason than because nobody else around here can elevate DMV's outrage like you can.




Outrage?

Um...I really wish it were possible for you to see me when I'm posting...I'm really laughing 98.2% of the time as I'm typing.

Really.

I don't take this stuff too seriously.
pdxstogieman Offline
#40 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Outrage?

Um...I really wish it were possible for you to see me when I'm posting...I'm really laughing 98.2% of the time as I'm typing.

Really.

I don't take this stuff too seriously.


Oh, so that's the insane, bitter cackle I detect in all your posts Sarcasm
DrMaddVibe Offline
#41 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
pdxstogieman wrote:
Oh, so that's the insane, bitter cackle I detect in all your posts Sarcasm



Nope.

More of a snicker mixed with an open belly laugh!

Thanks for playing though!
dubleuhb Offline
#42 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
Wonder who their strategist is ? Should have set up in April not September, gonna be cold soon. Lets see how long they last when the mercury drops.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#43 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:40 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
dubleuhb wrote:
Wonder who their strategist is ? Should have set up in April not September, gonna be cold soon. Lets see how long they last when the mercury drops.



They're prepared to make it a long haul. All the way until the reefer and blotter supply holds up!

After that...they'll go back to their parent's basements.


Frying pan
dubleuhb Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
I think there are more people waiting in line for the new Iphone than at these ''protest's''.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
dubleuhb wrote:
I think there are more people waiting in line for the new Iphone than at these ''protest's''.



Don't underestimate the power of One.
rfenst Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 12:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
[quote=MikeyRavioli]The problem with no central leadership and no unified message is that no one has any idea what the hell these people want.
[quote]


That may come with time. They may grow with time. They may morph with time. Competent leadership could occur. Or, nothing could change and they will become politically ineffective.
MikeyRavioli Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-10-2005
Posts: 2,105
Why is there no march to the White House?


By the way, here's the latest request for money the Obama campaign sent out Thursday:

"In the third fund-raising quarter of this year, 606,027 people donated to this campaign - even more than gave in the record-breaking previous quarter.

" ...We are focused on building an infrastructure that will help us win in 2012. ...Each quarter we set a combined goal for ourselves and our allies at the Democratic National Committee. We far exceeded our goal at $55 million this quarter .Together Obama for America and the DNC raised more than $70 million."

70 million in a quarter is probably more than any of the CEO's whose homes they marched on make combined.
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 12:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
MikeyRavioli wrote:
Together Obama for America and the DNC raised more than $70 million."




man, that's a whole bunch of ciggs & stuff.... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#49 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 12:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
MikeyRavioli wrote:
Why is there no march to the White House?


By the way, here's the latest request for money the Obama campaign sent out Thursday:

"In the third fund-raising quarter of this year, 606,027 people donated to this campaign - even more than gave in the record-breaking previous quarter.

" ...We are focused on building an infrastructure that will help us win in 2012. ...Each quarter we set a combined goal for ourselves and our allies at the Democratic National Committee. We far exceeded our goal at $55 million this quarter .Together Obama for America and the DNC raised more than $70 million."

70 million in a quarter is probably more than any of the CEO's whose homes they marched on make combined.



The amounnt that will be spent by the D or R alone could eend up real close to $1 billion. What a crying shame- on all of us.
ZRX1200 Offline
#50 Posted: Fri, Oct 14 2011, 1:05 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
^ yes sir!

And Drafter they don't but cigars they confiscate them in Chicago.
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